Why we must bid goodbye to the idea of India

[HariPrasad]

India is not an Idea like Pakistan (Islamic State). India is an eternal entity existing from the time of availability of Human history. It is a land of god. So thinking that India is an idea like pakistan is rubbish and a futile effort to draw a nonsense parity with Pakistan.

 

[Bang Galore]

Did you even read what I typed?!! There should be a start somewhere. Nepal's temple banned animal sacrifice this year. On the face of it, they abandoned centuries old tradition. But they realized their faith has to be leashed. But if you are going to cut your hand because the other guy is cutting his finger, it is stupidity. If muslims loose their temper and join militancy over some random cartoons, it will lead to their own destruction.

Err..I did read what you typed. The "you" in my post was a general reference, not addressed to you directly ( should have gone with "one"......instead of "you"). I meant my post to be actually supportive of yours.

My point was limited to those making the argument that a beef ban would be anti-secular while not addressing the point I mentioned. If a person (and I believe you agree) made the remark that both beef & the right to paint/draw should be allowed, there can be no disagreement. Since that is almost never made by most of the people like the author of the piece, it would be reasonable to call them (and others like them) out for hypocrisy.

I also completely agree with what the temple in Nepal did, I would like the government in India to mandate the same here too and would like to see similar support as there was for that ban . Otherwise the same argument of hypocrisy would stand, it would be more against the optics of a mass slaughter occurring versus the slaughter of similar numbers happening separately in the public domain during different festivals. We live in the 21st century, we should have more civilized rules for all.

The other parts of your argument are a little vague. Not sure whether you were suggesting a Mani Shankar Aiyar version of secularism (secularism for Hindus, Muslims can do their own thing...) in this remark -

" But if you are going to cut your hand because the other guy is cutting his finger, it is stupidity.If muslims loose their temper and join militancy over some random cartoons, it will lead to their own destruction "

That choice of argument is Mani Shankar Aiyar's (or anyone else's) to make but it will have to necessarily be an individual choice. The state should make no such distinction.

 

[saurav]

Hehehe.. Again Idea of India under attack... There never was a single Idea of India and there will never be one.. There will be ideas of India.

Especially the nehruvian idea will be summarily countered from now on.

 

[rubyjackass]

Err..I did read what you typed. The "you" in my post was a general reference, not addressed to you directly ( should have gone with "one"......instead of "you"). I meant my post to be actually supportive of yours.

My point was limited to those making the argument that a beef ban would be anti-secular while not addressing the point I mentioned. If a person (and I believe you agree) made the remark that both beef & the right to paint/draw should be allowed, there can be no disagreement. Since that is almost never made by most of the people like the author of the piece, it would be reasonable to call them (and others like them) out for hypocrisy.

I also completely agree with what the temple in Nepal did, I would like the government in India to mandate the same here too and would like to see similar support as there was for that ban . Otherwise the same argument of hypocrisy would stand, it would be more against the optics of a mass slaughter occurring versus the slaughter of similar numbers happening separately in the public domain during different festivals. We live in the 21st century, we should have more civilized rules for all.

Glad we agree on this.

The other parts of your argument are a little vague. Not sure whether you were suggesting a Mani Shankar Aiyar version of secularism (secularism for Hindus, Muslims can do their own thing...) in this remark -


That choice of argument is Mani Shankar Aiyar's (or anyone else's) to make but it will have to necessarily be an individual choice. The state should make no such distinction.

The state does not make any such distinction. Owaisi makes religious remarks, Varun Gandhi makes racist remarks, both get arrested. Both got away with such earlier speeches. Both got out of jail wearing their religion on their sleeve.

As you said, it is indeed an individual choice and that is why there is no government edict or a personal threat.

And I don't want to waste 10 words on a reference to Mani Shankar Iyer. But if there is a choice between having a vocal minority crying about their 'rights' and a vocal majority threatening the minority in the country, I would always prefer the former.

The majority can always veto anything that hurts its interests.

 

[GURU DUTT]

bid goodbye to idea of India.... what else can one say but haters gonna hate!

its not the so called "idea of india" that they are trying to demean but its actualli a mixture of their reality hitting in the face and their wrong notions getting exposed and getting irrelevent but alas their ego and hyper false bravado still doesnt lets them aknowledge the hard facts for which they are paying a heavy price but deu to their own denayl they are not able to overcome the real cause of the problem so whats the easiest way to caress your bruised ego

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

India is not an Idea like Pakistan (Islamic State). India is an eternal entity existing from the time of availability of Human history. It is a land of god. So thinking that India is an idea like pakistan is rubbish and a futile effort to draw a nonsense parity with Pakistan.

@Irfan Baloch

 

[Bang Galore]

The state does not make any such distinction.

The state does. It is why we have a beef ban (a loony idea guaranteed to do economic damage) & also a ban on books & articles hurting Muslim "sentiments". Once we go down that slippery slope of competitive appeasement, there is never really any end.

Oddly, this non-secular aspect of the state was well known & recognised by the constitutional fathers including Nehru. Which was why they skipped any direct reference to "secular" even if they made sure that the state would treat all its citizens equally.

 

[Sarjen29]

@al_asad_al_mulk Dude what's you calling the mods everytime when someone gives u a suitable reply ??

you are insulting hindus and abusing indians and u still run to the mods.. come on stop behaving like children do!!

 

[hussain0216]

I like your avatar

Do you remember thundercats, wasn't his avatar the baddie called Mumrah

 

[rubyjackass]

The problem is secularism being imposed on only one religion while all the other religion's feelings needs to be respected.
Besides, shouldn't we also stop culling of cows which is a centuries old tradition from the Mughal era ?

Your statement doesn't even make sense. What is secularism being imposed on only one religion?! There is minority pandering, on that even secular people agree with you. But that is not hurting Hindus like its the end of the world as some people claim.

Other religions' feelings are also being respected. For example, it is now a criminal offense to kill a buffalo in public in most states even where beef is not banned. Most muslim organizations, if not all follow this regulation and keep peace. If you tell me Hindus don't eat beef, please stick your head in sand. Why is the country's newest state capital city being built after a Hindu ritual? Where is the secularism 'imposed'? Why did the muslim population not raise objections? A jaundiced eye sees everything in green.

If you follow the mullah version of the sanghi version, they have PhDs on how their respective communites are being cut down by the governement and the other religions. So their books will be filled with incidents where injustice was met to them, but they don't even give a page on how the Indian state goes out of the way of secularism(the French one) to tolerate their religion. So open your eyes to the various places where Hinduism is tolerated and even celebrated by the secular state.

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

Do you remember thundercats, wasn't his avatar the baddie called Mumrah

No he or she is not carrying mumrah avatar the same deity i posted
check @FromDeepNet avatar

 

[hussain0216]

No he or she is not carrying mumrah avatar the same deity i posted
check @FromDeepNet avatar

Ohhhhhh

Kali maaa of indiana jones and the Temple of Doom fame

 

[rubyjackass]

The state does. It is why we have a beef ban (a loony idea guaranteed to do economic damage) & also a ban on books & articles hurting Muslim "sentiments". Once we go down that slippery slope of competitive appeasement, there is never really any end.

There is also a ban on certain MF Hussain's paintings. So there is no distinction. If the Congress thought banning something else would give more Hindu votes, they would have done it. Listen to what their leaders said in retrospect about the 2014 polls(that they are seen as anti-Hindu). Please don't call opportunism as secularism and then give strawman arguments against secularism.

Oddly, this non-secular aspect of the state was well known & recognised by the constitutional fathers including Nehru. Which was why they skipped any direct reference to "secular" even if they made sure that the state would treat all its citizens equally.

No, they seem to have skipped the word secular because the word was not popular until later. Secularism was the bedrock of Indian freedom movement as opposed to whatever movement Muslim League was doing.

India is not an Idea like Pakistan (Islamic State). India is an eternal entity existing from the time of availability of Human history. It is a land of god. So thinking that India is an idea like pakistan is rubbish and a futile effort to draw a nonsense parity with Pakistan.

I think the idiot author mean that we have to reinvent the idea of India. He used the word 'goodbye' instead and the Pakistani fans ran with it because it appeared to compromise India. But what he suggested makes sense. We have to decide what is going to be our future. And it should include a more tolerant state, more freedom of expression vs hurting other's 'sentiments'.

 

[Star Wars]

Your statement doesn't even make sense. What is secularism being imposed on only one religion?! There is minority pandering, on that even secular people agree with you. But that is not hurting Hindus like its the end of the world as some people claim.

Doesn't make sense ? @Bang Galore has been saying the same thing to you again and again. The Entire leftist Liberal Media is hell bent on this one sided secularism. Freedom of Action and freedom of speech is only confined to leftist liberal morons and minorities.

Other religions' feelings are also being respected. For example, it is now a criminal offense to kill a buffalo in public in most states even where beef is not banned. Most muslim organizations, if not all follow this regulation and keep peace.

I gave you an example where it is not, so don't pretend like these things don't exist. Secularism in this country is a political weapon. This one sided targeting of a specific religion has been going on for a long long time now..

If you tell me Hindus don't eat beef, please stick your head in sand. Why is the country's newest state capital city being built after a Hindu ritual? Where is the secularism 'imposed'? Why did the muslim population not raise objections? A jaundiced eye sees everything in green.

You are an idiot for putting words in my mouth and the answering it yourself.. IF you think killing buffaloes in mass is evil but killing cows and other animals in mass to be eaten is secular then there is something seriously wrong. People want to consume and kill another sentient being just for the sake of satisfying their taste buds and they claim we are extremists...

If you follow the mullah version of the sanghi version, they have PhDs on how their respective communites are being cut down by the governement and the other religions. So their books will be filled with incidents where injustice was met to them, but they don't even give a page on how the Indian state goes out of the way of secularism(the French one) to tolerate their religion. So open your eyes to the various places where Hinduism is tolerated and even celebrated by the secular state.

Either you allow everything are you respect everything, this one sided political secularism being displayed is plain idiotic and anyone who supports it is an idiot...

 

[rubyjackass]

Doesn't make sense ? @Bang Galore has been saying the same thing to you again and again. The Entire leftist Liberal Media is hell bent on this one sided secularism. Secular people are busy writing stupid articles like the OP...

I gave you an example where it is not, so don't pretend like these things don't exist. Secularism in this country is a political weapon. This one sided targeting of a specific religion has been going on for a long long time now..

What you said was an oxymoron, so it does not make sense.
'Besides, shouldn't we also stop culling of cows which is a centuries old tradition from the Mughal era ?'

And this also does not make sense to me. Do you mean Mughal tradition was to ban culling of cows? Or do you mean we should stop culling cows? Cow slaughter is already banned in India, in case you don't read much. The current beef ban in discussion is regarding buffaloes and ploughing animals.

You are an idiot for putting words in my mouth and the answering it yourself.. IF you think killing buffaloes in mass is evil but killing cows and other animals in mass to be eaten is secular then there is something seriously wrong.

You are an idiot to not understand the meaning of 'If'. Beef ban hurts Hindus also. Thats what I meant and there even @Bang Galore seems to agree. So please don't equate beef ban with a Hindu demand.

People want to consume and kill another sentient being just for the sake of satisfying their taste buds and they claim we are extremists...

Stay off my chicken will you?

Either you allow everything are you respect everything, this one sided political secularism being displayed is plain idiotic and anyone who supports it is an idiot...

Allow what? Are you a moron? Even Hindus consume beef. So don't act like you are thekedar of Hindus. Talk about Brahmins, there is at least some discussion.