Why Türkiye should rethink its relations with India

[El Sidd]

Turkey is about to slap some tariffs on India.

Enjoy

 

[Naofumi]

Well we can expect Progress in UPA

Probably but still not much likely.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Children of the ottoman do not deal with idol worshippers

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

India could be a good location to sell weapons to, but considering they would be willing to use all that machinery against Pakistan makes it pretty hard to do so.

Trade is not just related to weapons.

To be honest, not many people in India know about Turkey and nor do Turkish people know that much about India. At most, an Indian will identify Turkey as a European country and some of the ones with interest in history might associate Turkey with Kemal Pasha and his reforms.

Very silly reasons to strain relations over.

 

[Yankee-stani]

You have brought very valid points and concerns. India should recognize and work on taking steps that will alleviate/address Türkiye's concerns where it can to narrow the gap. But no two countries have perfect relations. if they did then probably there is no longer a need for them to be two separate states. Just check some examples like US refusing to share F-35 tech with UK or Israel refusing to share Iron Dome tech with the US. During 1971 Indo-Pak war, US brought her aircraft carrier to bomb India but today US is the biggest defense partner of India. Again, India does not expect Türkiye to break her relations with Pakistan to improve relations with India. Both can stand on their own merit. You should also note that despite Türkiye taking a very public stand against India on Kashmir, India has still awarded the naval ship contract to Türkiye. We both are very mature nations. Continued small steps like these will go a long way in improving our relations and building a strong partnership in the next decade.



LoL. Not even close.



Türkiye does not need to ditch Pakistan to build relations with India.

Of course things arent binary in geo politics but what your points you have claimed is similar to what observe Pakistanis say about Russia in that they will ditch you guys for us which will never happen same goes with the Turks

 

[vishwambhar]

I would love to see Turkish ATMACA missiles on Indian navy warships...

 

[Lincoln]

Can Turkey-Indo relations stand while Turkey rightfully points out the Kashmir killings by India, and while India criticizes Turkey over Syrian operations, and joins hands with its opponents specially Armenia and Greece?

 

[mehmeTcc]

Turkey having good relations with India might not be as bad as you think. Having a middleman coordinating reliable communications between both sides is always good when politicians act dead stupid and ordinary people pay the price for that.

 

[Lincoln]

Are you really serious?

The Jinnahs, Gandhi And Khilafat
The following excerpt from Sheela Reddy's new book gives a glimpse into the dynamics of the relationship shared by Mr and Mrs Jinnah...

Jinnah was holidaying in Ooty with Ruttie from April 19 to June 3, 1920—Gandhi was giving him much more to worry about than merely proselytising. While Jinnah had been away in England for five months the previous year, Gandhi had once again changed tack and bounced back into the political mainstream by changing the rules entirely. He used a gambit that no politician before him had ever tried: uniting Hindus and Muslims by espousing a religious cause that concerned only Muslims. This was the ‘Khilafat’ issue. After the War, Indian Muslims were concerned over the fate of defeated Turkey facing dismemberment of its Ottoman empire and with it, the threat of their holy places in Arabia slipping from the custody of the Turkish Caliph into non-Muslim hands. The matter was serious enough to make Muslims want to protest against the peace treaty that the Allies were drawing up, especially because the British government was going back on its word given before the War that the Caliphate would not be disturbed.

In Jinnah’s view, the Khilafat question was unfortunate, but not really a political issue at all. Of course, he took an interest in it, representing to the government both in India and Britain, but it was more to appease his Muslim constituency than because his heart was in it. Gandhi, on the other hand, took it up with his usual missionary zeal. While Jinnah had been away, Gandhi had befriended the more radical Muslim leaders who wanted to fight for the Khilafat cause and had been spurring them on into forming their own organisation so that he could have their backing for his non-cooperation programme. He had become such a champion of the Khilafat cause that he started writing and speaking on it wherever he went. With his help and guidance, Khilafat committees sprang up in every province of the subcontinent. And by the time Jinnah returned, with his head full of the reforms bill and what could be done with it, Gandhi had effectively shifted public attention away from the reforms to the Khilafat issue. Even worse, the movement had acquired enough momentum for them to hold a political convention in Simla that was so big that it cast the Muslim League into shade. Representatives of every sect of Muslims from across the subcontinent were expected to attend, giving the convention a pan-Indian character that undermined the Muslim League’s importance.

On the surface, Jinnah showed no alarm at the developments. He was even able to put up a show of great liberality by expressing his ‘happiness’ at the growing signs of Hindu–Muslim unity, which he called the ‘most important thing necessary for success’ in an interview to the Bombay Chronicle the day after he landed. But his pride would not let him attend the conference in Simla, although he did receive an invitation. The prospect of being overshadowed by Gandhi at a Muslim conference was hardly an incentive.

Jinnah was holidaying in Ooty with Ruttie (above) from April 19 to June 3, 1920. But Gandhi was giving him much more to worry about.

It was a mistake, though, to allow Gandhi to take the field by himself and emerge as a leader of both Hindus and Muslims. Gandhi had attended the Simla convention with prominent Hindu leaders and after that had stepped up his involvement with the Khilafat issue by writing newspaper articles and giving speeches. His call for a ‘Khilafat Day’ got a huge response from both Muslims and Hindus, enabling him to re-emerge as the tallest national leader. And by the following month in Amritsar, where the Congress and Muslim League were holding their annual sessions simultaneously, Jinnah was literally forced to take a back seat, sitting directly behind Gandhi at the Congress sessions and helping him steer a difficult resolution past his opponents in the Congress.

At the Muslim League’s convention also it was Gandhi’s protégés, the Ali brothers, who stole the limelight. They had just been freed from imprisonment and arrived midway through the session and the proceedings were interrupted as members stood up to welcome them with loud cheers of ‘Allahu Akbar!’ The older of the two brothers, Shaukat Ali, took over the stage, delivering a thundering speech that called on ‘forty lakhs of Mussalmans to come forward and die for their religion’ while the audience fell to weeping at his words. His brother, Mohammed Ali, followed with another tearful speech and on that high note of emotion, regular proceedings had to be suspended for the day.

At the Khilafat conference, which was the highlight of this Congress session, Jinnah was again sidelined. He sat on the platform squeezed between dozens of Gandhi’s supporters, both Hindu and Muslim, facing a record 16,000 Muslims who had turned up at Gandhi’s call. He listened impassively as Gandhi demonstrated the power of speaking in Urdu rather than English, outshining even the Ali brothers, who were meant to be the star attraction. Gandhi’s speech delivered in his diligently acquired Urdu was of such ‘incredible power and lucidity’, as the Bombay Chronicle reported the next day, that ‘he captured the Muslim heart and mind’.

After Amritsar, Gandhi stepped up his Khilafat campaign even further and went on an extensive tour with the Ali brothers in order to rally support for the cause among Hindus across the country. Gandhi had once again cast Jinnah into a major dilemma: he could not afford to detach himself from the Khilafat cause because of its significance to Muslims; yet he did not want to yield to pressure from Gandhi or Gandhi’s Muslim friends. His reason pulled one way while his pride pulled in the opposite direction. But he kept his troubles close to himself as was his habit.

https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/the-jinnahs-gandhi-and-khilafat/298451

Yes, Jinnah was silent on Khilafat movement because it was a religious movement being used by Indian politicians for petty politics. But never against it, Iqbal played a part in pure support of the struggle. Muslim League was the single party which swayed opinion in favor of the Republic while the Indian Muslims and politicians were left devastated over the abolishment of the Ottoman Caliphate. Same for Iqbal.

 

[MayaBazar]

Can Turkey-Indo relations stand while Turkey rightfully points out the Kashmir killings by India, and while India criticizes Turkey over Syrian operations, and joins hands with its opponents specially Armenia and Greece?

Political rhetoric and relations need not have same trajectory.

 

[Lincoln]

Are you really serious?

The Jinnahs, Gandhi And Khilafat
The following excerpt from Sheela Reddy's new book gives a glimpse into the dynamics of the relationship shared by Mr and Mrs Jinnah...

Jinnah was holidaying in Ooty with Ruttie from April 19 to June 3, 1920—Gandhi was giving him much more to worry about than merely proselytising. While Jinnah had been away in England for five months the previous year, Gandhi had once again changed tack and bounced back into the political mainstream by changing the rules entirely. He used a gambit that no politician before him had ever tried: uniting Hindus and Muslims by espousing a religious cause that concerned only Muslims. This was the ‘Khilafat’ issue. After the War, Indian Muslims were concerned over the fate of defeated Turkey facing dismemberment of its Ottoman empire and with it, the threat of their holy places in Arabia slipping from the custody of the Turkish Caliph into non-Muslim hands. The matter was serious enough to make Muslims want to protest against the peace treaty that the Allies were drawing up, especially because the British government was going back on its word given before the War that the Caliphate would not be disturbed.

In Jinnah’s view, the Khilafat question was unfortunate, but not really a political issue at all. Of course, he took an interest in it, representing to the government both in India and Britain, but it was more to appease his Muslim constituency than because his heart was in it. Gandhi, on the other hand, took it up with his usual missionary zeal. While Jinnah had been away, Gandhi had befriended the more radical Muslim leaders who wanted to fight for the Khilafat cause and had been spurring them on into forming their own organisation so that he could have their backing for his non-cooperation programme. He had become such a champion of the Khilafat cause that he started writing and speaking on it wherever he went. With his help and guidance, Khilafat committees sprang up in every province of the subcontinent. And by the time Jinnah returned, with his head full of the reforms bill and what could be done with it, Gandhi had effectively shifted public attention away from the reforms to the Khilafat issue. Even worse, the movement had acquired enough momentum for them to hold a political convention in Simla that was so big that it cast the Muslim League into shade. Representatives of every sect of Muslims from across the subcontinent were expected to attend, giving the convention a pan-Indian character that undermined the Muslim League’s importance.

On the surface, Jinnah showed no alarm at the developments. He was even able to put up a show of great liberality by expressing his ‘happiness’ at the growing signs of Hindu–Muslim unity, which he called the ‘most important thing necessary for success’ in an interview to the Bombay Chronicle the day after he landed. But his pride would not let him attend the conference in Simla, although he did receive an invitation. The prospect of being overshadowed by Gandhi at a Muslim conference was hardly an incentive.

Jinnah was holidaying in Ooty with Ruttie (above) from April 19 to June 3, 1920. But Gandhi was giving him much more to worry about.

It was a mistake, though, to allow Gandhi to take the field by himself and emerge as a leader of both Hindus and Muslims. Gandhi had attended the Simla convention with prominent Hindu leaders and after that had stepped up his involvement with the Khilafat issue by writing newspaper articles and giving speeches. His call for a ‘Khilafat Day’ got a huge response from both Muslims and Hindus, enabling him to re-emerge as the tallest national leader. And by the following month in Amritsar, where the Congress and Muslim League were holding their annual sessions simultaneously, Jinnah was literally forced to take a back seat, sitting directly behind Gandhi at the Congress sessions and helping him steer a difficult resolution past his opponents in the Congress.

At the Muslim League’s convention also it was Gandhi’s protégés, the Ali brothers, who stole the limelight. They had just been freed from imprisonment and arrived midway through the session and the proceedings were interrupted as members stood up to welcome them with loud cheers of ‘Allahu Akbar!’ The older of the two brothers, Shaukat Ali, took over the stage, delivering a thundering speech that called on ‘forty lakhs of Mussalmans to come forward and die for their religion’ while the audience fell to weeping at his words. His brother, Mohammed Ali, followed with another tearful speech and on that high note of emotion, regular proceedings had to be suspended for the day.

At the Khilafat conference, which was the highlight of this Congress session, Jinnah was again sidelined. He sat on the platform squeezed between dozens of Gandhi’s supporters, both Hindu and Muslim, facing a record 16,000 Muslims who had turned up at Gandhi’s call. He listened impassively as Gandhi demonstrated the power of speaking in Urdu rather than English, outshining even the Ali brothers, who were meant to be the star attraction. Gandhi’s speech delivered in his diligently acquired Urdu was of such ‘incredible power and lucidity’, as the Bombay Chronicle reported the next day, that ‘he captured the Muslim heart and mind’.

After Amritsar, Gandhi stepped up his Khilafat campaign even further and went on an extensive tour with the Ali brothers in order to rally support for the cause among Hindus across the country. Gandhi had once again cast Jinnah into a major dilemma: he could not afford to detach himself from the Khilafat cause because of its significance to Muslims; yet he did not want to yield to pressure from Gandhi or Gandhi’s Muslim friends. His reason pulled one way while his pride pulled in the opposite direction. But he kept his troubles close to himself as was his habit.

https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/the-jinnahs-gandhi-and-khilafat/298451



Yeah but the fact is Russia has been selling engines for your JF-17s which will be used against India.

Not something you would find from the Indian leaders during Khilafat Movement and the subsequent abolishment.

Political rhetoric and relations need not have same trajectory.

Tell that to your Government. It is the Indian Government which rebukes any and everyone for having an opinion on Kashmir, and breaks off relations. So, your message should really be directed towards Modi, not Turks. If Turks can have diplomatic and defense ties with Israel, they can also engage on higher levels with India, but like others already said, that won't be at the behest of shutting down their opinions and adventures.

I am not here dictating, I am only pointing out the obvious.

 

[CAN_TR]

We could improve economic relations instead but i'm against selling lethal weapons.

 

[MayaBazar]

Yes, Jinnah was silent on Khilafat movement because it was a religious movement being used by Indian politicians for petty politics. But never against it, Iqbal played a part in pure support of the struggle. Muslim League was the single party which swayed opinion in favor of the Republic while the Indian Muslims and politicians were left devastated over the abolishment of the Ottoman Caliphate. Same for Iqbal.

Gandhi and Indian Muslims like Abul Kalam Azad were the biggest supporters of the Khilafat Movement than Jinnah and Pakistani Muslims. That is an indisputable fact.

 

[damm1t]

Nah. Time-tested friends like Pakistan is hard to find in this particular era of human history. We do trade and relations with India, of course. But it will be limited with that as long as Pakistan/India are arch enemies.

 

[MayaBazar]

We could improve economic relations instead but i'm against selling lethal weapons.

We could surely start with enhanced economic relations. China is India's biggest trading partner despite we having a challenging border dispute.