What's new

Why the IAF keeps its twins in the limelight??

Status
Not open for further replies.
@ ganimi kawa, Read the opening topic again, the point being overseas deployment. !!!

Now did the EFs came to India or the Mirage-2000s and MIG-27s visited UK. ?? !!!

It should be obvious by now that the MKI serves as the backbone of the IAF...at least for the next couple of decades....besides being the best aircraft we field currently....

So when a Red Flag excercise invitation shows up, you show up with the best you have so you can practice without any handicaps (albeit w.some limitations).....
Would you send your F-7s to a Red flag excercise? Or alternately, would the participants of a Red Flag even want to excercise with an F-7?
 
.
@John Doe
Never, not even to save my self. However then again, you do often refer to the Bollywood Drama Queens. Guess no surprises there. Even if it's as such, the rest is your assumption since the PAF has also deployed to UK and USA on a single engine like the JF-17 and F-16.

When did the JF-17 participate in an excercise in the US? Are you referring to the Farnborough air show wrt the UK?

Also, maybe I missed this, but the JF-17 doesnt have mid-air refuelling currently right?
 
.
Wrong, because most twin engine fighters are designed to carry more internal fuel, which equals the fuel fraction again:

Gripen NG - fuel fraction 0.32
F16 Block 60 - fuel fraction 0.25
Rafale - fuel fraction 0.33
F18SH - fuel fraction 0.32

The performance during peace time is not an issue, because you calculate that before you buy these fighters. You will buy them only if you can afford to operate them. If that is the case and you have an operational requirement for it (be it in air superiority role, or strikes), there should be no doubt, that any AF would opt for a twin engine version, if they have the choice.




Debatable, because it depends on the fighter designs:

Length: F16 - 15.03m / Rafale - 15.27m / J10 - 15.50m
Wingspan: F16 - 10.00m / Rafale - 10.80m / J10 - 9.70m
Height: F16IN - 5.09m / Rafale - 5.34m / J10 - 4.78m
Empty weight: F16IN - 9979 kg / Rafale - 9500 kg / J10 - 9750Kg
MTOW: F16IN - 21800Kg / Rafale - 24500Kg / J10 - 19277Kg

KZDoXBcg6pMd21B6XK4047tcgzOomwu7.jpg

13bh29rglmbghqsyxf0ghy5zr0.jpg

ydrn9kxkxneoqoqhj9jos8hml0.jpg



As you can see on the pics, it's not the twin engine that makes Rafale more visible, but the different wing design. If we now consider the J10 besides the Rafale, we would hardly see a difference.





An F16 IN is expected between $50 and 60 million dollar fly away, the Rafale around $85 millions. The maintenance of the single engine fighter is of course cheaper, but if you loose one fighter due to engine failure, you lost $50 to 60 million dollar. The Rafale on the other side, has good chances to return home, even with 1 engine, now how much higher must be the operational costs of the Rafale, to equal the loss of around $30 millions?
More importantly, you started with the statement that you want capability for your money, but here is the problem. A Rafale can carry more load and will offer better performance with higher loads, exactly because of the higher thrust of 2 engines (F16 B60 dry thrust, 84kN, Rafale dry thrust 100kN) and bigger twin engine fighters like F15, or Flankers will be even better in this field. They can carry more fuel and loads, while offer better thrust performance than a single engine opponent, which clearly makes it more capable.

The bottom line is, it's not that easy to say where the advantages of single, or twin engine fighter lies. The engine technology has matured during the past decades and especially the western engines are very reliable now, but you can't rule out a loss of a fighter and you can't generalise it either.
The US forces are stating, that the single engine F35, will be up to 1.5 times costlier to operate than the twin engine F18 Hornet it will replace.
Dassault has developed the twin engine Rafale, based on operational and maintenance routines of the single engine Mirage 2000. They say that it needs 25% less ground crew to maintain the Rafale and the operational costs are said to be just 12 to 15% higher.

If one engine of the rafale is in flames.. Id be surprised if the other survives.
So you bought two rafale's.. where you could buy 3 F-16IN's.. you lose one F-16IN.. you still have one flying.
the Rafale that makes it home.. is still out of the fight for a while.. rather than the extra F-16 that is there.
Compared to the Mirage 2000.. the F-16 is still less man hours..
As for sortie rate.. I need to carry four LGB's.. to my target.. and defend myself.. why would I want to have the ability to carry 8 at almost 2/3rd extra?


Sancho.. the F-5 or J-8 is designed to carry more fuel? incorrect blanket statement.
The F-18C actually burns more gas compared to the F-16.. and has a lesser fuel fraction
The SH is a substantially larger jet.. compare it to the F-35.. if you must.. which being single engined as a fuel fraction of 0.37.
So that takes your claim out of the equation.


I was not referring to RCS.. I am talking mark one eyeball.. in that case.. your twin engined Su-27 sticks out like a sore thumb at 8km..even nose on.. compared to it.. the F-16 is still hazy.
At the same time.. the F-5 is harder to spot still.. But my reference was to the Russian twins...with their engines far apart..and offering a nice juicy look to a good eye.

Rockstar... if the USN found single engine fighters that unsafe.. it would not invest in the F-35..simple.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom