Why not free Qadri?

[praful]

Why do you guys give this solo man zionist guy the oxygen of responding he is a known hater of pakistan and is a zionist. We should ignore him. He does not have an open mind its like talking to a brick wall having a discussion with him and a zionist wall at that.

Aryan -- the article is from tribune.com.pk not a zionist source. You should keep your personal hatred aside while having a discussion.

 

[Emmie]

Why bring India in here?? But still if you do so then please note that Radicals in India are A$$ holes. I dont treat them as my heroes.

So dont you think kadree and ilmuddn are A$$ holes and plain murderers of same class? and none should be glorified for their killing?

Sir then you should value those who are condemning Qadri. Religious zealots are everywhere on the face of earth so revolving around a fixed contingent is not less than trolling.

 

[DK Run]

There is no fixed contingent here. Just a plain simple question. How is ghazi kadree different from ghazi ilmuddin the hero of islam? Why is he in jail and not in school textbook??

Why this collective hypocracy of islamic society of pakistan on ghazi kadree? Which brings us again back to the topic, WHY NOT QADRI BE FREED???

 

[Awesome]

Why not free Qadri?
By Ayesha Siddiqa
Published: October 8, 2011

How about freeing Mumtaz Qadri for the simple reason that the state system has lost the capacity to execute punishment? The Anti-Terrorism Court (ATC) judge, who gave him the death sentence, is already on the run. It will be quite a cost to protect Justice Shah and his family or other judges that may be brave enough not to overturn the ATC’s decision.

Why bother with the idea of punishing Qadri when it is no longer in the realm of the possible. An olive branch that is offered to the Tehreek-i-Taliban (TTP) Pakistan and other killers can be extended to Qadri as well. Not to forget that the political leadership in the form of the recent All Parties Conference has surrendered to a peculiar agenda. So, forget about Jinnah’s August 11 speech now as the state has already transformed to a hybrid-theocracy. It has small liberal spaces, equally smaller spaces where Sharia is formally implemented, and larger spaces where the orthodox law is informally enforced. Try standing in front of a Jamaat-i-Islami/Jamaatud Dawa procession in support of Qadri to feel the melting away of the state and its changed character. Sadly, many of our post-modernists scholars will, yet again, call this as part of the secularising process through bringing religion into public sphere. Driven by personal ambitions to establish their scholarship, they won’t even question that the current discourse is not secularising as it condemns all other arguments as being against Islam. Are the protesters even willing to explore other religious arguments that may not save Qadri from the sentence given by the ATC judge?

There are no governments that are willing to stand up to the bullying and to establish the writ of the state. There is no intent to even deradicalise society because, in the words of a senior bureaucrat of the Punjab government, reputed to be close to the chief minister, there is no radicalisation in Punjab and even if there were, why should the state become an ideological warrior. Obviously, this CSS-qualified babu considered deradicalisation as anti-religion or against the tenets of Islam. This bureaucrat was a good example to debunk the argument that radicalisation results from lack of education. Here was a case of a literate man not willing to understand that deradicalisation is about creating sufficient space for all religions and sects to co-exist without fear of persecution, and increasing the state’s capacity to provide justice for all, irrespective of their cast, creed and religion. Thus, he presented the Punjab government’s development priorities as devoid of the goal of deradicalisation.

It was almost unbelievable to think that the bureaucrat’s plan had the sanction of his political bosses, especially someone like Mian Nawaz Sharif who made some bold pronouncements of building ties with regional neighbours and condemned parties with militant wings. Notwithstanding the goodness of Mian Sahib’s heart, one wonders how familiar is he with his own party’s support of militant outfits and if he considers this linkage equally condemnable? The fact of the matter is that no political party can claim to be above board as far as rising radicalism is concerned. The absence of the state in most provinces — Balochistan where people are being picked up and killed, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa where the provincial government has willingly opted to share space with certain types of militants, Sindh, which is devastated by floods and a government that is almost invisible and Punjab where the government opts to burn down state infrastructure — is visible. Therefore, it is not surprising to see militant outfits becoming the new arbiters even replacing the old feudal class. They have and will exercise greater influence on the electoral process, especially ensuring that no parliamentarian challenges the writ of these militant outfits.

The militants of today are the new feudal lords that will adjudicate and dispense justice not on the basis of any higher religious law but their personal bias for things which are superficially religious. These people, who hold jirgas and dispense justice, are not fully aware or trained to interpret religious text or other sources. Surely, memorising the Holy Book cannot be the sole criterion. For those who believe that voting another party into power will solve the problem of radicalism, they will be disappointed to know that religious radicalism is the only game in town. It is now time to think of ways to grapple with the new reality.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 9th, 2011.

Man people should be encouraging the judges and voicing the fact that they are behind them, instead she's making it seem oh so hopeless as if she really wants to overturn the decision.

---------- Post added at 12:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

This person is cursed to never do or say anything that would benefit Pakistan.

 

[Hyde]

There is no fixed contingent here. Just a plain simple question. How is ghazi kadree different from ghazi ilmuddin the hero of islam? Why is he in jail and not in school textbook??

Why this collective hypocracy of islamic society of pakistan on ghazi kadree? Which brings us again back to the topic, WHY NOT QADRI BE FREED???

In simple words, you are saying why red apple and tomato does not taste similar where in fact both looks very similar in physical appearance and both are red in colour.

 

[DK Run]

In simple words, you are saying why red apple and tomato does not taste similar where in fact both looks very similar in physical appearance and both are red in colour.

Instead of using subjective words and analogy, can you Plz explain the difference between the 2 ghazis, apart from the fact that one killed kaafir blasphemor and became pakistans hero and still glorified and other killed muslim blasphemor and is rottimg in jail.

There answer to this is the existance of a deep faultline and utter hypocracy of pakistans islamic society manifestating itself as seen by the treatment meted to the killer of a kaafir and killer of a muslim.

 

[Awesome]

There is no fixed contingent here. Just a plain simple question. How is ghazi kadree different from ghazi ilmuddin the hero of islam? Why is he in jail and not in school textbook??

Why this collective hypocracy of islamic society of pakistan on ghazi kadree? Which brings us again back to the topic, WHY NOT QADRI BE FREED???

He was sentenced to death too nonetheless. The big difference was that back then concepts like Freedom of Speech didn't matter, all faiths killed to protect themselves, even out of faith... America nuked Japan - twice. Disproportionate response was the norm.

Do you do everything as you do since the 60s? By today's standards it was wrong. He exists in the texts from a perspective of those time.

Before painting us in tones of collective hypocrisy first decide if you're here to discuss or mock? What's the big deal with hypocrisies anyway? Has dichotomies ended everywhere else? Have you stopped voting for Narendra Modi in Gujarat? Are you not fighting to make him PM? So why this bitter harsh tone for Pakistan when you see something so slightly unfitting.

 

[Emmie]

There is no fixed contingent here. Just a plain simple question. How is ghazi kadree different from ghazi ilmuddin the hero of islam? Why is he in jail and not in school textbook??

Why this collective hypocracy of islamic society of pakistan on ghazi kadree? Which brings us again back to the topic, WHY NOT QADRI BE FREED???

The point is you really cant compare Ilm-ud-din with Qadri. Qadri murdered a guy who didn't acted like the fool Raj Pal - Taseer didn't speak against Islam he just wanted the blasphemy laws to be amended as a lot of innocent Muslims and Non Muslims were being effected not because of the violation but because of malice of some influential people. The title of the book by Champo lal in itself was a disgrace to Muslims.. Always expect something ruthless when you write against religion, as you make a circle your enemy.

Calling someone a hero or a coward depends - Everybody calls Bhagat Singh a hero because he stood against British Raj, see a motivation is behind. So we have a hero who killed people, but still we call him a hero.. BS is a hero BTW

 

[DK Run]

He was sentenced to death too nonetheless. The big difference was that back then concepts like Freedom of Speech didn't matter, all faiths killed to protect themselves, even out of faith... America nuked Japan - twice. Disproportionate response was the norm.

Do you do everything as you do since the 60s? By today's standards it was wrong. He exists in the texts from a perspective of those time.

Before painting us in tones of collective hypocrisy first decide if you're here to discuss or mock? What's the big deal with hypocrisies anyway? Has dichotomies ended everywhere else? Have you stopped voting for Narendra Modi in Gujarat? Are you not fighting to make him PM? So why this bitter harsh tone for Pakistan when you see something so slightly unfitting.

Asim bhai, so what is the point of glorifying iluddin today, if you believe that he too was a petty murderer after all? If it is inconsequentail today what is the point in force feeding "his acts of glory" to school children? What if a small kid wants to emulate ilmuddin by inspiring from his islamic bravardo and becomng a future kadree??

This open up a new faultline, ie pakistan still oficially propping extremist islamic values by means of such education and brain washing school kids by false acts of herroism.

EDIT:- Whats the point of bringing US, India etc. ?

 

[53fd]

Healing of the Pakistani nation will start once the WOT ends. Right now, the Pakistani people are too blinded by the belief that 'outsiders' are waging a war against Islam/Prophet(S)/Muslims. But once the WOT ends & these 'outsiders' leave, they will realize that the biggest enemies of Islam are the Muslims themselves, the nation within.

 

[Awesome]

Asim bhai, so what is the point of glorifying iluddin today, if you believe that he too was a petty murderer after all? If it is inconsequentail today what is the point in force feeding "his acts of glory" to school children? What if a small kid wants to emulate ilmuddin from inspiring by his islamic bravardo and becomng a future kadree??

This open up a new faultline, ie pakistan still oficially propping extremist islamic values by means of such education and brain washing school kids by false acts of herroism.

EDIT:- Whats the point of bringing US, India etc. ?

Who glorifies Ilmuddin? The same people who glorify him (in the actual glorification) are the people who glorify Qadri and will glorify a bunch of other nutjobs like those two.

More than Ilmuddin's chapter comes in as part and parcel of the life of Allama Iqbal where he went and convinced Jinnah to fight his case in court.

Jinnah told him he won't win this case and is better off pleading something similar to insanity due to his rage. He refused and ultimately ended up dead. In a poetic manner Iqbal gave him a farewell.

Now Iqbal supported him in those times, should we support those views today? No.

Because Iqbal supported something so weird, should we ditch Iqbal? No.

Jinnah lost a case, should we ditch Jinnah? No.

The way you're perceiving glorification of Ilmuddin, its not happening. Before the Qadri incident I remember I read about him somewhere once that too I remembered not him but Iqbal's line, which also keeps becoming more or less dramatic, depending upon who's opinion you read in these books.

 

[jayron]

He was sentenced to death too nonetheless. The big difference was that back then concepts like Freedom of Speech didn't matter, all faiths killed to protect themselves, even out of faith... America nuked Japan - twice. Disproportionate response was the norm.

Do you do everything as you do since the 60s? By today's standards it was wrong. He exists in the texts from a perspective of those time.

Before painting us in tones of collective hypocrisy first decide if you're here to discuss or mock? What's the big deal with hypocrisies anyway? Has dichotomies ended everywhere else? Have you stopped voting for Narendra Modi in Gujarat? Are you not fighting to make him PM? So why this bitter harsh tone for Pakistan when you see something so slightly unfitting.

your Modi example is totally illogical. People do not celebrate Modi for his involvement in the riots. on the contrary, that is the only thing in the way of him becoming a PM in spite of his stellar performance as a Chief Minister. Compare that with Ilmuddin who's only act of heroism was murdering a Hindu to "defend" his religion. Since your founding fathers supported him and his ideology, its no wonder such sentiments still exist.

 

[RKhan]

Talk is cheap. I want to know what Pakistanis are willing to fight for.

You have to understand that the country is ideologically divided. There are those who want to see the prosperity of the 80s and 90s again with the liberal freedoms associated with that time and then there are those conservative elements that want us to be on the "Defenders of Islam" and return us to the 7th century with a theocracy. Annnd then there is the common man being fool by both sides at times and being fed up by it.

 

[KHIte]

You have to understand that the country is ideologically divided. There are those who want to see the prosperity of the 80s and 90s again with the liberal freedoms associated with that time and then there are those conservative elements that want us to be on the "Defenders of Islam" and return us to the 7th century with a theocracy. Annnd then there is the common man being fool by both sides at times and being fed up by it.

you are wrong, those conservatives are million times more patriotic than the liberals who are 3% of population, and the liberals only want america to be their big boss and role model, while conservatives want a separate independent system so that west doesnt play with us, like it does

pakistan is a country on the cross roads, liberalism was not the pakistan's foundation, and given the culture differences from east to west, without conservatism, pakistan would crumble, under liberal yahya khan, pakistan broke into pieces

conservates are million times more genuine abt their patriotism, nobody wants to live in 7th century, all pakistanis want a better system better life, but the liberal elites are corrupting the system, conservatives are striving to get rid of these elites

also liberals always bring religion as issue to make their point, conservatives say, lets concentrate on nation building and forget every difference

---------- Post added at 04:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 AM ----------

You have to understand that the country is ideologically divided. There are those who want to see the prosperity of the 80s and 90s again with the liberal freedoms associated with that time and then there are those conservative elements that want us to be on the "Defenders of Islam" and return us to the 7th century with a theocracy. Annnd then there is the common man being fool by both sides at times and being fed up by it.

you are wrong, those conservatives are million times more patriotic than the liberals who are 3% of population, and the liberals only want america to be their big boss and role model, while conservatives want a separate independent system so that west doesnt play with us, like it does

pakistan is a country on the cross roads, liberalism was not the pakistan's foundation, and given the culture differences from east to west, without conservatism, pakistan would crumble, under liberal yahya khan, pakistan broke into pieces

conservates are million times more genuine abt their patriotism, nobody wants to live in 7th century, all pakistanis want a better system better life, but the liberal elites are corrupting the system, conservatives are striving to get rid of these elites

also liberals always bring religion as issue to make their point, they want to be anti religion more than they want a prosperity, conservatives say, lets concentrate on nation building and forget every differences

---------- Post added at 04:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 AM ----------

the prove of my theory is, salman taseer never cared about bringing better life to punjab, while he rode on mercedes, he never cared about increasing life standards there, but as he was liberal minded, he started using religion to gain fame, he never bothered to provide progress and prosperity to the poor people, so as i say liberals are hypocrites bunch ruling the country

 

[Solomon2]

unfortunately [justice] is lost in our country

So you've given up and decided instead to look out for #1 - you - over all others?