Why no export-success for the J-10 so far ?

[Mugwop]

Dear indian,

Thank you for your tag.

J10A is cleared for export as it was shown in Singapore.
J10B/C are available for Iron Brother anytime.

At the moment the production is geared towards PLAAF needs.

As practice China never sells its best tech regardless of money it could earn. Different dynamics in thinking.

Hopefully, this satisfies your curiosity.

Good luck wiht your LCA and its export.

All the best.

Regards,

SPF

Isn't J-10A production comming to an end?

Very pleased to know this

Now could you please also clarify on WHICH engine do you intend
to Fit in the J 10 A -- that is-- IF you export it ;
J 10 A would be powered by which engine-- AL 31 or WS 10

Has RUSSIA allowed you to RE SELL AL 31 engine

WS10 will be used in J-10's and there is nothing wrong with chinese engines despite what your media tells you

 

[Brainsucker]

How do you know whats in the J20? Have got access to the latest Chinese aviation tech or just pulling stuff out of your rear?

Just leave him alone. He doesn't know anything about it. What he wants is only trolling. He just baiting people (specially Chinese and Russian posters) to fights in this thread.

 

[BoQ77]

The ELEPHANT in the Room as far as J 10 Exports are concerned

is the Engine ie AL 31

I dont know why people do not want to talk about it

Even JF-17 has no buyer.
Engine is not a single factor of the transaction on aircraft.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Isn't J-10A production comming to an end?


WS10 will be used in J-10's and there is nothing wrong with chinese engines despite what your media tells you

Dear Mugwop,

No J10 production is not ending just quite yet. J10A will be replaced by latest varriants later on. So, expect the production to run for a while.

There are also whispers of CAC working on J20 styled single engined stealth fihgter as well.

@ChineseTiger1986 will know more about it though.

Who knows your PAF might be working with CAC on this single engined stealth fighter...

If I recall correctly CAC&PAC signed MoU on single engine stealth fighter years back... So, I expect the typical Sino-Pak surprise in due time.

Regards.

@Deino

Lieber Freund , schließen Sie bitte diesen Thread . Es ist nur negativ und reine Trolling. Das war die Absicht des Threadstarter .

Vielen Dank und schönes Wochenende .

Ciao

 

[salarsikander]

There was also a misunderstanding between the islamic leaderships as the design was originally from Israel.

What islamic leadership and what misunderstanding?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Dear Mugwop,

No J10 production is not ending just quite yet. J10A will be replaced by latest varriants later on. So, expect the production to run for a while.

There are also whispers of CAC working on J20 styled single engined stealth fihgter as well.

@ChineseTiger1986 will know more about it though.

Who knows your PAF might be working with CAC on this single engined stealth fighter...

If I recall correctly CAC&PAC signed MoU on single engine stealth fighter years back... So, I expect the typical Sino-Pak surprise in due time.

Regards.

@Deino

Lieber Freund , schließen Sie bitte diesen Thread . Es ist nur negativ und reine Trolling. Das war die Absicht des Threadstarter .

Vielen Dank und schönes Wochenende .

Ciao

China is now fulfilling the J-10 squadrons with the domestic engines, so she is now not going to consider any export at the moment.

PS, today it is about the 5th gen aircrafts, China will promote the J-31 for export more than the J-10.

 

[Deino]

Guys ... could You all calm down and esp. leave that irrational, stupid country-bashing mixed with political inclusions !?

Dear Mugwop,

No J10 production is not ending just quite yet. J10A will be replaced by latest varriants later on. So, expect the production to run for a while.

There are also whispers of CAC working on J20 styled single engined stealth fihgter as well.

....

Correct; as far as I know production of the J-10A ended indeed and since 2013/14 only the J-10B and since late 2015 only J-10C are produced.

China is now fulfilling the J-10 squadrons with the domestic engines, so she is now not going to consider any export at the moment.

PS, today it is about the 5th gen aircrafts, China will promote the J-31 for export more than the J-10.

IMO this is not correct. So far all J-10-regiments are still using the AL-31FN and the only three aircraft flying with the WS-10 are the no. 1035 prototype and the last two batch 01 J-10Bs (1-54 & 1-55).

@Deino

Lieber Freund , schließen Sie bitte diesen Thread . Es ist nur negativ und reine Trolling. Das war die Absicht des Threadstarter .

Vielen Dank und schönes Wochenende .

Ciao

First of all thanks for Your kind words and even if You are fully correct, to admit - after cleaning that thread - I would like to keep it open, since the topic's theme is indeed quite interesting: Why are so far no J-10s exported ?? The fact that the original posted started this thread only to troll ... is another issue.

As such ... the answer is surely much more difficult than the original poster's intention, since it covers political, technical and surely also industrial considerations: IMO it is a mix of all, since at first the PLAAF had such a huge demand that simply no aircraft were left to export. Additionally it is always difficult for a newbie to enter an already crowded export market regardless all merits a new product has; the French Rafale is a prime example for this.
As such many countries interested in a F-16-equivalent were surely at first resistant, since that type has to proof itself in service. Is the J-10 indeed worth it's price= and then there are political issues: to buy from China a high-end fighter is actually a novelty; so far Chinese fighters are more on the lower-end-market for countries that cannot afford or politically get access to Western systems ... and then there is the issue of production capacity: how many birds can CAC produce per month? How many of them needs the PLAAF and how many can be transferred to the export? Is - or better was - Russia a reason not to resell a direct competitor to its own MiG-29?

For example: this issue, why the PAF did not purchase is still a mystery for me and it seems as if there are more internal political and military rivalries between the PAF-leadership and the then president than any technical issues.

As such a surely interesting question and even more surely much more difficult to answer than the original poster's intention with his assumption "that type is a bad product or still has engine issues".

Just my two cents and also "ein schönes Wochendende für Dich auch",

Deino

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I would like to keep it open, since the topic's theme is indeed quite interesting: Why are so far no J-10s exported ?? The fact that the original posted started this thread only to troll ... is another issue.

Thank you very much

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Guys ... could You all calm down and esp. leave that irrational, stupid country-bashing mixed with political inclusions !?




Correct; as far as I know production of the J-10A ended indeed and since 2013/14 only the J-10B and since late 2015 only J-10C are produced.




IMO this is not correct. So far all J-10-regiments are still using the AL-31FN and the only three aircraft flying with the WS-10 are the no. 1035 prototype and the last two batch 01 J-10Bs (1-54 & 1-55).




First of all thanks for Your kind words and even if You are fully correct, to admit - after cleaning that thread - I would like to keep it open, since the topic's theme is indeed quite interesting: Why are so far no J-10s exported ?? The fact that the original posted started this thread only to troll ... is another issue.

As such ... the answer is surely much more difficult than the original poster's intention, since it covers political, technical and surely also industrial considerations: IMO it is a mix of all, since at first the PLAAF had such a huge demand that simply no aircraft were left to export. Additionally it is always difficult for a newbie to enter an already crowded export market regardless all merits a new product has; the French Rafale is a prime example for this.
As such many countries interested in a F-16-equivalent were surely at first resistant, since that type has to proof itself in service. Is the J-10 indeed worth it's price= and then there are political issues: to buy from China a high-end fighter is actually a novelty; so far Chinese fighters are more on the lower-end-market for countries that cannot afford or politically get access to Western systems ... and then there is the issue of production capacity: how many birds can CAC produce per month? How many of them needs the PLAAF and how many can be transferred to the export? Is - or better was - Russia a reason not to resell a direct competitor to its own MiG-29?

For example: this issue, why the PAF did not purchase is still a mystery for me and it seems as if there are more internal political and military rivalries between the PAF-leadership and the then president than any technical issues.

As such a surely interesting question and even more surely much more difficult to answer than the original poster's intention with his assumption "that type is a bad product or still has engine issues".

Just my two cents and also "ein schönes Wochendende für Dich auch",

Deino

Deino my friend,

I have full trust that you will keep it on topic. It is just tiring that everything here becomes negative and unconstructive.

Anyhow, let the insightful discussion commence...we all might learn something.

Tschüss!

 

[Deino]

@Sinopakfriend

Indeed, it's a real pity or sometimes even a mess - but so much common in so may forums - that a civilised discussion is nearly impossible on such topics:

for the fan-boys on the one side the J-10 is the best and equal to the latest F-16s and no other opinion is accepted, they immediately fight against with such stupid argument and questions that the LCA is also not exported and what country xyz has so far exported. All point completely irrelevant to the original question, which IMO is a valid one. On the other side the non-export of the J-10 is proof that this type is the worst, no match for the F-16, Mig-29 or anything else ... and they all lack the will and maybe even capability to see a wider picture, which always includes politics and economic considerations.

Anyway I hope that this discussion will continue in a civilised manner ...

Deino

 

[Stephen Cohen]

For example: this issue, why the PAF did not purchase is still a mystery for me and it seems as if there are more internal political and military rivalries between the PAF-leadership and the then president than any technical issues.

What do you think about India's Objection to the sale of AL 31 to Pakistan
and Russia agreeing to India's demands-- Geopolitics at work

J 10 is far more capable than JF 17

JF 17 is not a threat to India ; J 10 is a threat to India

Even if Russia sold 100 AL 31 engines to Pakistan ; it will earn only 300 million dollars

We can pay that money to them for NOT selling AL 31 to Pakistan

 

[Deino]

What do you think about India's Objection to the sale of AL 31 to Pakistan
and Russia agreeing to India's demands-- Geopolitics at work

J 10 is far more capable than JF 17

JF 17 is not a threat to India ; J 10 is a threat to India

Even if Russia sold 100 AL 31 engines to Pakistan ; it will earn only 300 million dollars

We can pay that money to them for NOT selling AL 31 to Pakistan

Indeed that's a good question. As far as I understand, the J-10 was rejected in Pakistan due to several reasons - most of all internal issues - and not technical ones; maybe also budget-limitations. Even the re-sale of AL-31FN engine was not an issue since - as already explained - better to earn a bit from the associated engines than nothing.

The fact that India was lobbying against that sale might be another factor but IMO was not the main reason. It probably hampered the then on-going discussions in Pakistan, but it did not influence the result.

If a J-10 would be a threat to India ? I don't know that's something India has to decide, but IMO it would have been an ideal higher-end complement to the smaller and lighter JF-17. However it seems Pakistan itself decided against it ... why I truly don't know (but I would like to know).


By the way I changed the thread's title to "Why no export-success for the J-10 so far ?"

Deino

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Indeed that's a good question. As far as I understand, the J-10 was rejected in Pakistan due to several reasons - most of all internal issues - and not technical ones; maybe also budget-limitations. Even the re-sale of AL-31FN engine was not an issue since - as already explained - better to earn a bit from the associated engines than nothing.

The fact that India was lobbying against that sale might be another factor but IMO was not the main reason. It probably hampered the then on-going discussions in Pakistan, but it did not influence the result.

If a J-10 would be a threat to India ? I don't know that's something India has to decide, but IMO it would have been an ideal higher-end complement to the smaller and lighter JF-17. However it seems Pakistan itself decided against it ... why I truly don't know (but I would like to know).


By the way I changed the thread's title to "Why no export-success for the J-10 so far ?"

Deino

Diplomacy and geopolitics also involve PREVENTING a threat from arising

Given the friendship between India and Russia AND the amount of
Defence business we do -- we can expect them and demand from them
to take care of our security Interests

Of course ; Russia lost a little money but India would have bought
many things to compensate that

50 Odd J 10 would have made a significant difference to PAF

And China is always willing to give soft loans to Pakistan
as they are doing with other weapons so money was nt going to be an issue
for Pakistan

 

[Deino]

Correct ... but as I explained, it is always a mix of all different factors explained above. Which one in the end led to the decision not to purchase the J-10 I don't know ... but I am eager to know.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Correct ... but as I explained, it is always a mix of all different factors explained above. Which one in the end led to the decision not to purchase the J-10 I don't know ... but I am eager to know.

You will Get TWO opinions

Pakistanis will say financial and technical issues were involved

Indians would say -- we lobbied with Russia to stop the sale of AL 31

J 10 is a far more capable plane than JF 17 -- We know that

J 10 was a threat ; JF 17 is not a threat to India