why majority of Martial and Caucasoid castes converted to Islam ?

[Pakistansdefender]

Please ban these cast threads.
They are very stupid. I used to blame Indians about it, but we Pakistanis are no less. We just like indians are obsessed with cast, color, ethnicity, height....
Thousands of years living with Hindus have also changed our mentality.
Have you ever seen a British or eurpeon discussing that winsdors used to be very ugly or turners are all short etc.
Definately now someone would quote me and say that Islam allowed tribes.
But also Islam makes you equal irrespective of anything, except your devotion towards your Allah.
Focus on global warming, deforestion, saving earth, feeding the poor.
While the west is researching new avenues, a mishra aur iyer was wondering why he was so better then the others.
And Pakistanis are no better too.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Please ban these cast threads.
They are very stupid. I used to blame Indians about it, but we Pakistanis are no less. We just like indians are obsessed with cast, color, ethnicity, height....
Thousands of years living with Hindus have also changed our mentality.
Have you ever seen a British or eurpeon discussing that winsdors used to be very ugly or turners are all short etc.
Definately now someone would quote me and say that Islam allowed tribes.
But also Islam makes you equal irrespective of anything, except your devotion towards your Allah.
Focus on global warming, deforestion, saving earth, feeding the poor.
While the west is researching new avenues, a mishra aur iyer was wondering why he was so better then the others.
And Pakistanis are no better too.

Stop blaming others for your own problems. Muslims treat other Muslims treat other muslims like shit around the world. Have you seen how rich Arab Sheikhs treat poor Muslims from South Asia and Sub Saharan Africa? No society is free of racism and discrimination unfortunately.

 

[my2cents]

Other than Afghan Pashtuns and Indian Punjabis, you guys are the closest to us genetically outside Pakistan.

I feel sad to see the genetic intermixing between you and the Dravidians. I have nothing against Dravidians, but every group deserves to preserve their genes and prevent irreversible changes.

Tell me a race that did not intermix. Change is the only constant. When we saw missioneries converting people of different races in the world to the fold of Christianity and Islam, we saw this trend accelerating.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I can only partly agree.

The idea in itself is very racist, and part of the divide & conquer policy.

However, can you blame the British for wanting to enlist men with stronger, more robust physique in their colonial army? You would not do the same as a ruler?

IA stationed a large number of Jat soldiers during the Doklam incident - is that not a continuation of similar policy? Reality is some ethnic groups, by evolutionary luck, are physically better adapted to face tough environment and adversaries.

Again, no group is physically superior to others in war. Also, success in war is more than physical size. Most sub-sahran Africans dwarf South and East Asians, but which region has historically had more military success, and posseses a better military today? Also, keep in mind many races you may not consider to be "martial" have successful military histories. For example, Tamils were never fully conquered by invaders by the British, and are the only South Asian group to have conquered significant territory outside of SA(Southeast Asia) Odisha was also never conquered until the late 16th century, and put up a strong fight against the British in 1857. Also, some of the fiercest warriors in the subcontinent are the tribals of Chhattishgarh, who provided arguably the most effective resistance to British rule(The British had a hard time controlling the jungles of Chhattisgarh). Even until recently, some Chhattisgarhi tribal groups gave quite a headache to the Punjabi, Rajput, and Jatt regiments of the Indian Army. Yet Chhattisgarhi tribals are not who many cinsider Martial Races.

The only truth to the Martial Race theory is that as a whole, some people choose to join the armed forces more often than others-but as I have explained, that is more out of economic necessity, especially for poorer men. That is why some demographics are overrepresented in the Indian Army. South Asians also tend to do what their ancestors did, so someone who's father fought in the army is likely to do the same, and someone whos father owns a business is likely to work in that business. I am pretty sure there is a similar phenomenom in Pakistan.

With that being said, I agree that the Indian army does subtly promote the British-era Martial Race Theory with its regiment system. That is just one aspect of the Raj that got handed down to India. Its quite sad, because there are a lot of capable people who have not ben properly utilized.

 

[Mamluk]

Tell me a race that did not intermix. Change is the only constant. When we saw missioneries converting people of different races in the world to the fold of Christianity and Islam, we saw this trend accelerating.

What exactly triggered you? Yes there is nothing called pure races. There are differences that arise due to long term geographical isolation, genetic isolation, sexual selection and intermixing with other hominids. But the differences are real. I don't support discrimination based on it, but to say differences don't exist is crazy.

Of course no one will disagree that people intermix and produce intermediate groups.

 

[Mamluk]

Again, no group is physically superior to others in war.

That's a positive outlook to life - but evolution isn't fair.

Also, success in war is more than physical size.

I can almost agree. There can be exceptions - some groups are better suited to challenging environments. The Tibetans inherited a gene from Denisovans that let them thrive in high altitude. That would come in handy, don't you think? Though technology can even the playing field.

...

Will get to the rest later, gotta go.

 

[my2cents]

What exactly triggered you? Yes there is nothing called pure races. There are differences that arise due to long term geographical isolation, genetic isolation, sexual selection and intermixing with other hominids. But the differences are real. I don't support discrimination based on it, but to say differences don't exist is crazy.

Of course no one will disagree that people intermix and produce intermediate groups.

When you said that you don't like intermixing of Punjabis with Dravidians and to preserve the race, I find a hint of racial superiority whether you intended or not.

I agree that differences in races are stark and visible for all to see. In this interlinked world, increasing movement of people is only exacerbating preservation of pure genepools.

I believe we are a product of our environment. Different races mixing may lead to genetic diversity but the new gene pole may or may not be as resilient to the parent.

 

[Mamluk]

When you said that you don't like intermixing of Punjabis with Dravidians and to preserve the race, I find a hint of racial superiority whether you intended or not.

Racial superiority?? Let me quote a very old post in this thread from last year:

I feel sad to see the genetic intermixing between you and the Dravidians. I have nothing against Dravidians, but every group deserves to preserve their genes and prevent irreversible changes.

I am pro-diversity, nothing I wrote is about superiority.

 

[Hamza913]

This is a stupid thread because the idea of Martial races is stupid. The only truth to that theory is that in some parts of the subcontinent, there was(and still is to some extent) little opportunity for men without land, so young landless men joined the army. Not to mention, most "martial races" were simply people who resisted the British the least. For example, Bengalis and Odias gave the strongest resistance to the British,(such as in 1857) which is why the British never created a Bengali or Odia regiment. Punjabis on the other hand were the people who supported the British the most in suppressing rebellions, which is why they got the most regiments and positions in the army. Same with Gorkhas, who fought for the British in exchange for some degree of independence.

As for the question, there are plenty of "martial races" that never converted to Islam. Marathas, Nairs, Dogras, Punjabi Sikhs, Gorkhas, and most Rajput and Jat tribes never converted to Islam.

On a side note, I do think that some peoples as a whole are more interested in serving than others. For example, I am Gujarati, and Gujaratis seem more interested in running businesses and making money than serving in armed forces, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I think saying that certain communities have a more military-based history is perfectly fine and in many cases a correct assessment, but we have to draw the line between that and saying that they are some how superior militarily to other communities in the region, because that's just racism, plain and simple.

Punjabis also resisted the British Empire pretty fiercely at times, e.g Ahmed Khan Karral and the Battle of Jhelum.

Plenty of Rajputs and Jats did convert to Islam, as did many other Punjabis.

I think people tend to be more inclined towards the career that is more common within their own community.