why iran must stop calling themself shias for peace between muslim countries

[Indus Pakistan]

you are confused.

Confused? He needs treatment. No, point in even reasoning with him.

And I agree Iran needs to tone down the Shia rhetoric.

There is no hmmmn in this case,there is no minority.

I agree with your point about Kurds. They are not oppressed. But I refuse to accept that AKP is a Islamist party. I think it is rather cleverly using Islam but it's intent is to create a European style society and Edogan is leading this effort. I find it rather funny how jokers like @BATMAN split hairs over the differances in the Shia/Sunni divide but ignore the real differances on the ground.

In Istanbul is a homosexual act legal? Are homosexual parades legal? In Istanbul courts have those who have spoken against Homosexuals been found guilty of hate speach? The answer is yes to all these in a Sunni country. Yet jokers like @BATMAN parrot on about Shia Iran.

Ary any of these acceptable in Shia Tehran? @Erl

 

[T-123456]

But I refuse to accept that AKP is a Islamist party. I think it is rather cleverly using Islam but it's intent is to create a European style society and Edogan is leading this effort.

Well,better accept it then.
The AKP is a Islamist party using Islam cleverly.
Just take a look at all the changes taking place in my country.
The best example is the educational system,its changing rapidly for the worse.
The Turkish society was never about religion,what is it now?
https://www.turkeyanalyst.org/publications/turkey-analyst-articles/item/437-the-islamization-of-turkey-erdoğan’s-education-reforms.html

 

[Erl]

Confused? He needs treatment. No, point in even reasoning with him.

And I agree Iran needs to tone down the Shia rhetoric.

I agree with your point about Kurds. They are not oppressed. But I refuse to accept that AKP is a Islamist party. I think it is rather cleverly using Islam but it's intent is to create a European style society and Edogan is leading this effort. I find it rather funny how jokers like @BATMAN split hairs over the differances in the Shia/Sunni divide but ignore the real differances on the ground.

In Istanbul is a homosexual act legal? Are homosexual parades legal? In Istanbul courts have those who have spoken against Homosexuals been found guilty of hate speach? The answer is yes to all these in a Sunni country. Yet jokers like @BATMAN parrot on about Shia Iran.

Ary any of these acceptable in Shia Tehran? @Erl

I think that you received my opinion when i just followed you

 

[JustHappened]

In Istanbul courts have those who have spoken against Homosexuals been found guilty of hate speach?

Thank you for your solidarity. Turkish AKP is not allmighty, they lack some experience in governing. But there are many positive projects they fullfilled.
Birmingham is afaik Pakistan dominated and all is peaceful ?
But look at Germany and France, they are worried about 200.000 Arabs and Persian with double citizenship who couldn't travel to the USA cause their multiple citizenship.
But they want to take away Turkish citizens their Turkish ID, a FETÖ supporter guy in Berlin Ercan Karakoyun makes hate propaganda against DITIB mosques and prompt German services begin a case spying for Turkey.
Jan Böhnemann said in a comedy program that Turkish President is a pädophile and zoophile, nothing happened.
That is the difference between UK and continental Europe.

 

[BATMAN]

I find it rather funny how jokers like @BATMAN split hairs over the differances in the Shia/Sunni divide but ignore the real differances on the ground.

You failed to answer a simple question.. why US is delivering states after staes in iranian lap and you resort to mudslinging and personal attacks!!
Well i guess this is some thing i have to accept on a forum full of revolution appologisits.

Is it not evident, who is cursing Erdogan? only those who know their business will stop!
Without divide there's no assylum in UK/Australia and US!

Next question: Why is that suddenly Iranian shelling has stopped?

 

[Timur]

The Turkish society was never about religion,what is it now?

it was about religion but religion was havily opressed .. there is no denial of that

but now we have someone who uses religion to his favor to some degree but still if he is a islamist I cannot see it.. I see someone who uses some religios speeches but mostly acts secular.. you may never have seen Frau Merkel she is no different to Erdogan when it comes to religios aspects using it for some voters..

 

[BATMAN]

Shutting down it's embassies in Muslim countries like the one we did.
Cutting off whole bilateral ties with them like we did.
Enmity on it's lap dog ,Israel, in our region like we did. And many problems that we make for them in the region

All drama... soon we'll see its climax.
BTW.. i have already stated my opinion this issue days ago, which was more or less same words.

Yet jokers like @BATMAN parrot on about Shia Iran.

Ary any of these acceptable in Shia Tehran? @Erl

I doubt that my replies were any bit of ammusing for you.
Tehran is not Shia... this religon only exist in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq... normal human being can't be lured in to kill infidel babies, only brainwashed and they exist only in the above listed states and i'm saying this after travelling to ALL of islamic world.

Mr.ErDOGan can go **** himself !

Erdogan rocks !!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You failed to answer a simple question

Okay here goes -

(i) United States of America is a sovereign state. Iran is a sovereign state. USA is not a 18 year old b*tch in heat living in Pakistan and loves a boyfriend called 'Iran' and that she has to hide, play, cheat, fiegn, pretend, cover up her sexual relations with her boyfriend in case she get's stoned to death for commiting Zina. Like in the West they just sh*ag outside with not a whit of concern why the flying frigg would USA hide it's lovefest with Iran?

And do you even know the damage Iran has taken from USA? 37 years of some or other sanctions have crippled one of the largest oil producing countries to a level lower than Turkey. In 1970s Iran was way beyond others in the region. Have you forgotten about the Western supported Saddam's war against USA? Have you forgotten about the US Navy murder of over 130 civilian Iranians on a Iran Aiir flight? How stupid and ignorant can you get?

(ii) have you ever heard of the 'law of unintended consequences'? America was not out to help Iran but to help it's illegitimate child - Israel. If I had asked you which Arab countries posed most most threat to Israel in 2000 who would would you have listed in order?

Iraq
Syria
Libya

If I had asked you in 2000 which Arab countries are most closest to USA which would you have listed? Most of these are either suppled weapons by US or have US military bases stationed there.

Kuwait
Bahrain
Qatar
UAE
Egypt
Saudia Arabia.

So United States set about removing the threats against Israel. Iraq first, then Syria and then Libya. Saddam, Assad and Gaddafi were nemesis of Israel. Saddam is gone, Gaddafi is gone and that leaves only Assad but he is to busy now with his internal civil war to be a threat to Israel. However one of the unintended consequences was Shia groups emerging but for the American's that is small price to pay as they have removed the primary threats to Israel.

Frau Merkel she is no different to Erdogan when it comes to religios aspects using it for some voters..

10/10. AKP is the European version of Christian Democrats. In name only. They allow homosexuality, same sex marriages but call themselves 'Christian Democrats'. Ditto AKP in Turkey. You in Turkey know more than me but homosexuality is legal. Bunch of guys could be having drunken sexfeast in their tent in the garden in Istanbul and you can't do anything because it is legal. That does not sound the exposition of Sunni Islam to me. Try that in Shia Iran and those guys would get the gallows.

Indeed the Turkish law protects homosexuals. To talk bad about them is 'hate speech'.

On 17 July 2014, Turkey's Supreme Court ruled that referring to gays as "perverted" constitutes as hate speech.

LGBT-themed movies are not banned in Turkey. Brokeback Mountain, as an example, was seen in Turkish cinemas without government censorship. Anyone eighteen years of age or older could buy a ticket to watch the film.

LGBT-themed DVDs can also be legally sold in Turkey, albeit DVDs with sexually explicit content may only be sold to people eighteen years of age or older

In 2013, a Turkish vendor was charged with selling "immoral" DVDs because the DVD movies featured gay sexually explicit content. The court in Istanbul, Judge Mahmut Erdemli, overturned the criminal charges. He ruled that gay sex is "natural", stated that an individual's sexual orientation should be respected, and cited examples of same-sex marriages in Europe and in the Americas"

Click > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Turkey

Indeed Istanbul and Ankara have huge Gay parades every year > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Pride

And this is under the so called 'Islamist' AKP of Edogan. Frankly this does not shock me much I live in Uk and I see worse but I find it annoying when people talk about this so called fvckin Shia/Sunni divide with 'Turkey be in' and 'Iran being out'.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Confused? He needs treatment. No, point in even reasoning with him.

And I agree Iran needs to tone down the Shia rhetoric.

I agree with your point about Kurds. They are not oppressed. But I refuse to accept that AKP is a Islamist party. I think it is rather cleverly using Islam but it's intent is to create a European style society and Edogan is leading this effort.

Absolutely right. Another example is Turkey's prostitution laws which are one of the most liberal in the world even compared to Western countries. But Mr. Erdogan never dared to change this situation since he came to power. Why?

Does Erdogan want his own Islamic state?

In the next two days, however, the major figures in the AKP disowned Kahraman’s position on a “religious constitution.” The AKP’s Mustafa Sentop, chairman of parliament's constitutional commission, said that Kahraman’s view was not a “party stance” and that “secularism is preserved in our constitutional draft.” Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu asserted, “In the new constitution that we are preparing, the principle of secularism will be included.” He added that it would be a “liberal interpretation” of secularism, not an “authoritarian” version. In also addressing the controversy, Erdogan not only professed support for secularism, but even offered an inspired defense of the principle.

Defining secularism as the state's “obligation to stay at an equal distance to different faith groups,” he explained why it is a good idea: “If the faith of all religious groups in this country is guaranteed in the constitution, and the state’s equal distance to all religious groups is a foundation, why do you need to emphasize Islam? If I can live my faith as a Muslim the way I want to, the issue is over. If a Christian can live his/her Christianity, if a Jew can live his/her Jewishness or an atheist can live his/her atheism, the issue is also over for them.”

(...)

Erdogan’s ambitions are more about power than doctrine. For power, he needs to sustain popular support, and for popular support, he needs to use religion, but only to a certain extent. While religious symbolism has broad appeal in Turkey, a Quran-thumping Islamic state does not. Various polls bear this out. The most recent survey of the political inclinations of Turkish society was conducted in 2013 by the Pew Research Center, which found that only 12% of all Turks support “making Sharia the official law in their country.” In contrast, 84% of Pakistanis and 74% of Egyptians supported the idea.

Erdogan likely has the support of this hardcore, Islamist minority of 12%, who probably do expect him to create their utopia. At the same time, he also has the support of a much larger block of “conservative” voters who are religious and like reference to religion, but who still prefer to live under secular law. This is why Erdogan would want to retain secularism in the Turkish constitution, albeit while not shying from venerating religion in the public square or perhaps even in the constitution.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/04/turkey-does-erdogan-aim-islamic-state.html

Remember his famous visit in Egypt during Morsi's presidency.

"Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s call on Egyptians to adopt a secular constitution has created a kind of controversy, just hours before his scheduled meeting with the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s largest political group, on Wednesday.

Erdogan noted that secularism does not mean renouncing religion.

“A secular state respects all religions,” Erdogan said in an interview with an Egyptian private satellite TV channel prior to his visit to Egypt."
https://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/14/166814.html

He never followed a hidden Islamist agenda. He always said what was on his mind. Erdogan cares more about political power and changing the governing structures and systems of Turkey according to his personal ideas than emphasizing Sharia laws.

 

[BATMAN]

@Kaptaan Is this event from history is answer to the question, why US has lately been busy in expanding Iranian borders from China to Israel! while ignoring the terror training camps where thousands of Pakisatni and Afghanis are being trained!
In case of Israel, Iran has always spoiled the negotiations and peace efforts, i don't think you can encash Israel any more... BTW comparitively, there are more attrocities on Muslims in Kashmir than Palestinians but never i heard Khumeni lovers having any love lost there.
Whereas, Israel had always ignored smuggling of Iranian weapons into Gaza, which is also unaccpetable to a common sense.
Today, Iran revolution guards are next to Israel border, along with its brave Afghan and Pakistani fanatic brigades, why than war is limited to Syria?
On the otherhand, If US wished, it could have unmounted Iran regime, even before Saddam regime, becuase Iranian centrifuges (though premitive) were real and their tech. supply lines with Pakistan were very reall and infact it was US who gave all evidence to Pakistan, followed by confessions.
If US wished, it could have supported revolution in Tehran followed by fraudulant re-election of Ahmedi Nejad.
Iran regime don't care a bit for common Iranians, neither does US becuase Iranian intifada against Qum, was back stabbed from abroad.
More references you can found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

Regarding Gays in Turkey... they are mostly those who have fled Iran and hardly 1% in crowd are gay.

 

[B@KH]

All drama... soon we'll see its climax.
BTW.. i have already stated my opinion this issue days ago, which was more or less same words.

I doubt that my replies were any bit of ammusing for you.
Tehran is not Shia... this religon only exist in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq... normal human being can't be lured in to kill infidel babies, only brainwashed and they exist only in the above listed states and i'm saying this after travelling to ALL of islamic world.
Erdogan rocks !!

it is your assumption or jealousy and you are only doing your best to insult Shia Islam.

Lol. you are fooling yourself. tehran is capital of Shia country IRAN and you are claiming Tehran is not shias .

you think it is only you who travelled thru the Islamic world. are you blind.

The Era of such Fitna is over. it cannot work anymore.

Arabia is Not Sunni. Arabia is Shia. Millions of Immigrants are brought in Arabia to turn shia into minority.

 

[Spring Onion]

Iranian's call themselves Muslims not shia we just happen to believe Ali as our 1st Imam followed by the children of the prophet which makes us Shia!

Even if the word Shiite is wiped from history, Iranians will NOT stop believing in Ali as the 1st Imam followed by the children of the prophet as his disciples so call us whatever you wanna call us that isn't going to change!

Why do you believe so ? who told you to do so? under which system, ruling you believe that?

 

[KediKesenFare3]

The Turkish society was never about religion,what is it now?

That's simply not true. Religion was always very important in the Turkish society. You are mixing up being a Muslim or wearing headscarf with being a hardcore radical Sharia Islamist thus you can't differentiate properly on this issue. You're biased.

The CHP never got the absolute majority in Turkey even though it is the party of Atatürk himself. On the other hand Islamists also never won the absolute majority in the Turkish society.

Both of you, hardcore secularists and radical Islamists, are exaggerating the current situation to justify your radical "social solutions". According to Islamists, Turkey is a modern Sodom and Gomorrah whereas secularists claim that Turkey is just one step away from being a second Iran or Saudi Arabia.

The objective fact is that the vast majority of Turkish people consider Islam to be a very important part of their lives and at the same time they simply want to live in a liberal country that isn't either an authoritarian secular dictatorship or a pseudo Islamic hell.

Btw, the real anti-Nato, anti-Jews, anti-America, anti-West, anti-China, pro-Saudi/-Iran, anti-EU, pro-Sharia and Jihad, "kill all homos"-Islamists won 0,68% (Saadet Partisi) last year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_general_election,_November_2015#Overall_results

 

[yavar]

nd do you even know the damage Iran has taken from USA?

who do you think did the (the "Lockerbie bombing" in 1988 ??

Who was really behind the Lockerbie bombing?

Abdelbaset al-Megrahi was Released and free all chargers if you should know

how many American were killed Pan Am Flight 103 ??
so don't talk big about your America . the damage was taken straight away in 1988 .and all evidence in trial show who were the bombers and who sent them .

 

[T-123456]

That's simply not true. Religion was always very important in the Turkish society. You are mixing up being a Muslim or wearing headscarf with being a hardcore radical Sharia Islamist thus you can't differentiate properly on this issue. You're biased.

The CHP never got the absolute majority in Turkey even though it is the party of Atatürk himself. On the other hand Islamists also never won the absolute majority in the Turkish society.

Both of you, hardcore secularists and radical Islamists, are exaggerating the current situation to justify your radical "social solutions". According to Islamists, Turkey is a modern Sodom and Gomorrah whereas secularists claim that Turkey is just one step away from being a second Iran or Saudi Arabia.

The objective fact is that the vast majority of Turkish people consider Islam to be a very important part of their lives and at the same time they simply want to live in a liberal country that isn't either an authoritarian secular dictatorship or a pseudo Islamic hell.

Im not exaggerating nothing,
Lets forget all the changes the AKP brought but only stick to education system.

IMPLICATIONS: When the AKP was first elected in 2002, 65,000 students studied in imam-hatip schools. That number grew to 658,000 in 2013. In May 2015, Bilal Erdoğan, the President’s son, who is (informally) in charge of the Türgev foundation that is spearheading the expansion of imam-hatip schools, announced that the number of students had reached one million.

Imam-hatip schools are only one side of the story. The AKP’s reforms have also greatly expanded the religious content of regular academic high schools. In so doing, Turkey is in direct breach of a 2007 ruling of the European Court of Human Rights, which held that Turkey’s compulsory classes in religious education violated the religious rights of minorities, since the classes featured only education in the tenets of Sunni Islam. The government renamed the class to “Religious Culture and Moral Values”, to make it appear broader in scope, but in practice nothing changed. Students are required to memorize a long list of Quranic verses and prayers, but no texts from any other religion. Moreover, Christian and Jewish students continue to be exempt from the class – implying that the government itself views it as an education in Sunni Islam for Muslims.

The reforms, far from removing the compulsory classes, extended them from one to two hours per week. Also, the reforms enabled the rollout of elective courses in “the life of Prophet Muhammad”, and “the Quran”. That way, students could receive up to six hours of religious education per week. Meanwhile, the number of total hours of school per week was shortened; and thus, several other classes were either merged or abolished, such as that on “human rights, citizenship and democracy.”

In theory, these classes are elective; in practice, they may not be. School administrators decide what elective classes are to be offered. And amendments to the law in 2014 strengthened the government’s control over the appointment of school principals, who have the decisive influence on what courses schools offer. At least ten students are required to open an elective class, and thus, students may be forced to choose among the religious classes even if they do not want to. In a well-publicized case, the daughter of a protestant pastor in Diyarbakır was exempted from the compulsory class on religion and culture. She was forced, instead, to choose between elective classes on the Qur’an and the life of the Prophet.

In March 2014, new legislation was adopted that provided the government with a mandate to overhaul the entire structure of the ministry of education, including terminating thousands of high-ranking officials, who could then be replaced by political appointees. Furthermore, reforms in 2010 made it possible to transform regular high schools into imam-hatip schools; in 2012, this was made possible for middle schools as well. The government claims that such processes only take place as a result of popular demand, but the record proves otherwise. In fact, government plans to turn secular schools into imam-hatip schools have led to street protests in a number of places.

On top of the changes to the educational system, the 2012 education reform made considerable changes to the Qur’an courses offered by the state directorate of religious affairs, the Diyanet. The Qur’an courses, particularly summer courses for children, operated by the directorate, used to be co-managed with the Ministry of Education; the directorate now manages them alone. More importantly, the 12 year minimum age to attend Qur’an courses was abolished. Theoretically, kindergartners can now be sent to Qur’an courses. In 2013, indeed, a special project was launched for the provision of “Qur’an courses for preschoolers.”

The reform also relaxed regulations on the physical nature of appropriate buildings and requirements for eligible teachers. This is a boon for religious brotherhoods that can now essentially run their own Qur’an schools with their own teachers. Finally, Quran schools are now allowed to be boarding schools and to have dormitories – an important change, since it enables the full immersion of young children in a religious lifestyle.

CONCLUSIONS: Since 2012, the AKP has embarked on a systematic, multi-pronged effort to Islamize Turkey’s education system. These changes are likely to be lasting, as the AKP is retaining its grip on power even though it has lost its majority. In any coalition government in which it is the senior partner, the AKP is certain to jealously protect the education reform it has embarked on. On top of that, President Erdoğan’s parallel administration -- as well as Türgev, the private foundation run by his extended family that is spearheading the expansion of imam-hatip schools -- will continue to have a strong informal but direct influence on the education bureaucracy.

The consequences of these reforms will be visible only in time. It is not unlikely, however, that they are going to encourage a Sunni Islamic radicalization among sections of the population. Social harmony between Sunnis and non-Sunnis could be endangered as a result. Ultimately, the Islamic overhaul of the education system is bound to have implications for Turkey’s civilizational identity, and on the choices it will make on where it belongs politically.

Calling me a radical secularist is ridiculous,because i see what Erdogan is doing,im a radicalist?
The difference between you and the AKP?
Nothing because one calls people like myself radical secularists and the other calls us Gulenists,PKK or HDP.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pk...p-pm.aspx?pageID=238&nID=109381&NewsCatID=338
Realist is the word you were looking for i guess.
But i'd rather be a radical secularist then a fairytail believer like yourself.
In my country,religion was never the topic of the hour,it was something personal.