why cant BVR's be installed on the ground instead of planes??

[Chogy]

IR missiles can only see to a maximum of perhaps 10 to 20 nm, no further. Dust, clouds, water vapor, all kill the IR signal from the target.

Radar missiles can be converted to ground use, but the problems have all been explained - shorter range, horizon problems and such.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We have those, but am dubious about bold one

In order to develop the SAMS you need

a) Genius Mathematicians
b) Genius Programmers
c) Genius Electronics Engineers
d) Genius Physicist

Actually you would be surprised how many electronics graduates are working in Middle east in companies , and else where we just need to provide these universities with funding and proper equipment to train them in advanced electronics boards for usage in missiles.

This is an area we can gain more self sufficiency with cooperative work with China or Turkey

If you have good electronics , and Engineers (Hardware) you can develop proper circuits boards which are used in planes and missiles.

 

[nightcrawler]

Sir i respect your opinion but what I want to say that mass producing capability of semiconductors & such still is the major probem for us. Our engineering university produced good electronic gadgets but they can't be mass produced

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sir i respect your opinion but what I want to say that mass producing capability of semiconductors & such still is the major probem for us. Our engineering university produced good electronic gadgets but they can't be mass produced

You only need 100-200 , engineers, we produce ample amount most end up going to Middle east working as electricians in engineering fields

Give need to finance Universities with $2 Million Dollars per year on specific departments to train 100-200 grads import in proper tools and technology
This is not job of universities its job for our National Interest

I am positive with 200-300 Million invested with the , amount of man power we have we can achieve great gains.

 

[Kompromat]

How much range would be left on these missiles considering the gravitational force into play ?

 

[MastanKhan]

It is not that the job is not doable---. I believe that 'gambit' is the right person to answer---.

 

[fatman17]

yes they can be launched from ground as a SAM.
go to WMD and Missiles section and there is a article on using the SD-10 as a SAM

as a matter of fact, egypt uses the AIM-120 as a land based SAM

"Surface-launched AMRAAMs are being used by a few select nations as short/intermediate-range SAM systems. Pakistan has the opportunity here to develop a similar system in cooperation with the Chinese. The SD-10 could potentially form the basis of a very effective point defense system, as well as a system that could be placed covertly along potential threat aircraft ingress routes, particularly in the mountanous regions of the nation.

The SD-10 is an active radar weapon, ostensibly needing no off-board targeting sensors provided the target can be locked on by the seeker head prior to launch. The way to get around that limitation is to provide a passive detection system based on the FT-2000's EW kit. This would allow for hostile target identification to be performed, and a few sensors positioned at the right locations could provide triangulation so as to enable the system to generate accurate target track data. Target altitudes could be generated by measuring the strength of an identified emission, or perhaps by an accurate EO or IR system. Once a track and an altitude have been identified, the parameters for a launch have been established. An SD-10 could be fired and even updated mid-course using continued examination of the track and altitude data, before going active at point-blank range to allow for the maximum amount of suprise (mid-course signals could, of course, be detected by a sensitive RWR kit, but it'd have to know what it was to classify it as hostile).

The passive/active SD-10 system would be a cheap, effective option for short-range and point defense and would also be able to serve as a gap filler in areas where terrain precludes engagement by longer-range HQ-9s positioned in the area to defend their assigned locations. All Pakistan needs to do is take the initiative and embrace this concept, and with the induction of an HQ-9 class system the overall strategic air defense network will become much more effective.

Again, a network such as this is not intended to turn the entire nation into denied airspace. That's just not possible, or even economically feasible at any rate. But with a few key adjustments and acquisitions, Pakistan could greatly increase it's defensive capabilities insofar as intruding aircraft are concerned. A more robust SAM network would also free up more aircraft from point defense or CAP duties, allowing them to be retasked for other roles."

 

[marcos98]

SPYDER Surface-to-Air Python 5 and Derby Air Defence Missile System, Israel
SPYDER Surface-to-Air Python 5 and Derby Air Defence Missile System - Army Technology

Python 5 missile

The Python 5 missile is Rafael's new very high agility dogfight air-to-air missile. Python 5 is a development of the Python 4 with a dual-band focal plane array and imaging infrared (IIR) seeker which gives a very wide field of view.

Derby missile

The Derby missile is a medium-range, active radar-guided missile originally developed for the air-to-air role. The air defence missile has all-weather and beyond visual range capability.

this system is excellent example of integrating both IR and RADAR guided missile used for SAM duty

 

[Luftwaffe]

The passive/active SD-10 system would be a cheap, effective option for short-range and point defense and would also be able to serve as a gap filler in areas where terrain precludes engagement by longer-range HQ-9s positioned in the area to defend their assigned locations. All Pakistan needs to do is take the initiative and embrace this concept, and with the induction of an HQ-9 class system the overall strategic air defense network will become much more effective.

More like battlefield system for targeting relatively low flying objects that comes with-in the range of the system.

While SD-10 can be tweaked for it I believe Chinese already are using modified HQ-7s for the Job. (FM-80/FM-90)

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

...

I hope u understood what i am trying to say
...

All those SAMs developed since WW2 and nobody thought to put BVR on the ground! My my what an original idea you just had!

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

I mean if they have a range of 300 kilometers then whats the difference of them going of from point A on ground or point B thats an aeroplane 10,000 meters(10 kilometers) away from point A towards the target thats 200 Kilometers from Point A and 190 kilometers from point B.

I hope u understood what i am trying to say

and can ANZA be converted into a BVR?Like adding a small handle and a trigger to the BVR launcher?and also can ANZA be fitted on JF-17?4 on each wings and out of 4 on each wing 2 in reverse direction for firing at plane on the tail?

ur first part can be done second part well jf have better systeems than ANZA ho ever ANZA can be used on UAVs as US does with stinger for base defence at close ranges ....

 

[Akasa]

When these "BVR" missiles are installed on the ground, they are regarded as SAMs. When the range of the SAM reaches that of a typical Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air missile, they would be regarded as area defense SAMs.

Let's say, for example, if the PL-12 is used as a SAM, its 100+ km range would be regarded as a long range strategic air defense system. However, due to the limited service ceiling of typical air-to-air missiles, these are rarely used (some are still used, such as the LY-60 SAM), and larger missiles (capable of going up to 20-30 km in altitude) will be a better option.

A maximum service ceiling for an air to air missile is not as high as it seems, since it is launched from aircraft that are already flying high.

 

[Akasa]

The passive/active SD-10 system would be a cheap, effective option for short-range and point defense and would also be able to serve as a gap filler in areas where terrain precludes engagement by longer-range HQ-9s positioned in the area to defend their assigned locations. All Pakistan needs to do is take the initiative and embrace this concept, and with the induction of an HQ-9 class system the overall strategic air defense network will become much more effective.

More like battlefield system for targeting relatively low flying objects that comes with-in the range of the system.

While SD-10 can be tweaked for it I believe Chinese already are using modified HQ-7s for the Job. (FM-80/FM-90)

The SD-10 is an air to air missile. Despite both kinds being designed to engage aircraft, they are different. Air to air missiles allow for smaller bodies and less fuel because their velocity has already been supplemented by the fighter aircraft and they fly at mostly a linear trajectory.

SAMs require to gain both speed and altitude, calling for more fuel and thus a larger missile.

There is no point in building another point defense system based on the PL-12 (although there is one for export) when you've got missiles like the HQ-7, HQ-64, etc.