Why are our neighbours still operating and buying new BVR-less Fighters?

[Su-11]

I was just going through some links and wiki, and it surprised me how many BVR-less fighters are in our neighborhood.

Fighters-------Numbers

Pakistan
F-7MP----------95
F-7PG----------48
Mirage III------98
Total----------241

Bangladesh
F-7MB------------8
F-7BG------------15
Total----------23

China
PLAAF
J-7/F-7------------350 (MiG-21 copy)
J-8----------------180 (Su-15 copy?)
JH-7---------------70
PLAN
J-7/F-7------------30 (MiG-21 copy)
J-8----------------48 (Su-15 copy?)
JH-7---------------35
Total----------713


India
Airforce
All of our fighters are BVR capable!
Navy
All our fighters are BVR capable!


Jaguar, MiG-27, A-5, Mirage-5 are bombers and don't have Air to Air radars. So they are excluded.

When the world is moving towards BVR fighters with semi-stealth or stealth features, we have our neighbours who are operating BVR-less fighters and buying new ones. While India has upgraded their MiG-21Bis to BVR capable Bisons with HMS and all the goodies, these counties are still operating these relics. There have been rumours that Pakistan's Mirage-3s are BVR capable, but there is no concrete proof(only a Think Tank said that pakistan is getting south african darter missiles, but as we all know Think Tanks are often wrong in their predictions and their analysis, plus no proof photo or written news from established sources says that they are BVR capable). Pakistan acquired brand new F-7PGs just 10 years ago while India was busy inducting Su-30s. While Bangladesh is still yet to receive their BVR-less F-7BGI in the age of Super Sukhoi's, Rafales and MiG-29Ks.

So what gives? For heaven sakes, lets not talk about "we will get this, we will get that X years or XX years from now" fanboy bullshit and be objective for once. This is the situation NOW! Currently at present!!! If a war starts now, or in 2 years from now, your future dream-planes will not fight for you.

What is the logic behind this move? They don't value the life of their individual pilots and plan to win by numbers? Is it corruption? Incompetence? Lack of fore thought? It is perplexing to say the least.

 

[SpArK]

All the new and future fighters of PAF are BVR capable jets..

Check their Air force threads before opening stupid threads.


http://paktribune.com/news/Chinese-BVR-missiles-for-Pakistani-JF-17-fighters-CAS-233639.html

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.in/2010/03/f-16-block-52-with-amraam-bvr-missiles.html

 

[Su-11]

Please read what i have wrote fully before spamming nonsense. Besides this is not just about Pakistan.

 

[SpArK]

Please read what i have wrote fully before spamming nonsense.

This is what you wrote

Why are our neighbours still operating and buying new BVR-less Fighters?

Are they still operating many BVR less fighters - Yes... So does we.

Are they buying new BVR less fighters- no.... all new acquisitions incl F-16s and JF-17s are BVR capable which are replacing all those fighters u have posted from wiki..


So just check whats wrong with you and who is spamming what...

 

[Mech]

PAF jets will eventually become BVR capable. The way i understand, the process is already underway. And we cannot realistically expect China to not have BVR.

 

[Su-11]

Are they still operating many BVR less fighters - Yes... So does we.

Are they buying new BVR less fighters- no....


So just check whats wrong with you and who is spamming what...

Yea, that is what i wrote. Don't you know the difference between "neighbours" and "pakistan"? Bangladesh is going to buy new fighters, while pakistan is still operating them.

So does we? Elaborate?

 

[SpArK]

Yea, that is what i wrote. Don't you know the difference between "neighbours" and "pakistan"? Bangladesh is going to buy new fighters, while pakistan is still operating them.

So does we? Elaborate?

nope i am just learning grammer... my reply was regarding 1 of the neighbour.

nothing you said is new and every noob in the forum knows future fighters of these forces are having BVR capable missiles mostly from China.. Maybe u need to grow and think beyond the wiki links and look around in the forum for clues..

Opening a thread by pasting wiki and asking where are BVR ... is far too funny to read.

Im sure you will get replies and get replenished by the datas regarding BVR fighters and missiles atleast for the "neighbour" pakistan...

Good LuCk.

 

[Su-11]

nope i am just learning grammer... my reply was regarding 1 of the neighbour.

nothing you said is new and every noob in the forum knows future fighters of these forces are having BVR capable missiles mostly from China.. Maybe u need to grow and think beyond the wiki links and look around in the forum for clues..

Opening a thread by pasting wiki and asking where are BVR ... is far too funny to read.

Im sure you will get replies and get replenished by the datas regarding BVR fighters and missiles atleast for the "neighbour" pakistan...

Good LuCk.

I didn't say "Why are ALL our nighbours still operating and buying new BVR-less Fighters" now did I? Some of them are operating them while one is buying brand new ones without BVR capability. Assuming I said that about just pakistan, how could you jump in without even going through my reply in-depth. This reeks of spamming shyt. Thanks for spamming and ruining my thread, jerk.

I'm well aware of future and past acquisitions of these countries, even more than you! I was just going through wiki to confirm the numbers.

 

[Terminator]

BVR's and advance long range avionics are future and assurance of superiority when it comes to fighter to fighter combat. Dogfight at visual range are things of past..imagine a MIG 21 armed with superior radar & long range BVR than a F18...so its smart move if our neighbors are focusing on something which can make them comfortable when it comes to combating with SU-30 MKI, Rafale and T-50 in coming years..

 

[joekrish]

Their plans are different from ours, they plan to induct new ones than upgrading the old ones.

 

[SpArK]

I didn't say "Why are ALL our nighbours still operating and buying new BVR-less Fighters" now did I? Some of them are operating them while one is buying brand new ones without BVR capability. Assuming I said that about just pakistan, how could you jump in without even going through my reply in-depth. This reeks of spamming shyt. Thanks for spamming and ruining my thread, jerk.

I'm well aware of future and past acquisitions of these countries, even more than you! I was just going through wiki to confirm the numbers.

Your list is full of old fighter infos .. nothing on Mig-29s of BAF or JF-17s or F-16s of PAF ..Mr Expert..

And cut the insults... your thread is as pathetic as you.

 

[IND151]

I was just going through wiki, and it surprised me how many BVR-less fighters are in our neighborhood.

Fighters-------Numbers

Pakistan
F-7MP----------150
F-7PG----------50
Mirage III------120
Total----------320

Bangladesh
F-7MB------------10
F-7BG------------16
Total----------26

China
PLAAF
J-7/F-7------------720 (MiG-21 copy)
J-8----------------180 (Su-15 copy)
J-6----------------940 (MiG-19 copy)
PLAN
J-7/F-7------------90 (MiG-21 copy)
J-6----------------300 (MiG-19 copy)
J-5----------------70 (MiG-17 copy)
JH-7---------------60
Total----------2360


India
Airforce
All of our fighters are BVR capable!
Navy
All our fighters are BVR capable!


Jaguar, MiG-27, A-5, Mirage-5 are bombers and don't have Air to Air radars. So they are excluded.

When the world is moving towards BVR fighters with semi-stealth or stealth features, we have our neighbours who are operating BVR-less fighters and buying new ones. While India has upgraded their MiG-21Bis to BVR capable Bisons with HMS and all the goodies, these counties are still operating these relics. There have been rumours that Pakistan's Mirage-3s are BVR capable, but there is no concrete proof(only a Think Tank said that pakistan is getting south african darter missiles, but as we all know Think Tanks are often wrong in their predictions and their analysis, plus no proof photo or written news from established sources says that they are BVR capable). Pakistan acquired brand new F-7PGs just 10 years ago while India was busy inducting Su-30s. While Bangladesh is still yet to receive their BVR-less F-7BGI in the age of Super Sukhoi's, Rafales and MiG-29Ks.

So what gives? For heaven sakes, lets not talk about "we will get this, we will get that X years or XX years from now" fanboy bullshit and be objective for once. This is the situation NOW! Currently at present!!! If a war starts now, or in 2 years from now, your future dream-planes will not fight for you.

What is the logic behind this move? They don't value the life of their individual pilots and plan to win by numbers? Is it corruption? Incompetence? Lack of fore thought? It is perplexing to say the least.

@ bolded part> very good if true.


For Pakistan> Majority of PAF fighters serving were inducted in 60s and 70s and at that time BVR capable fighters weren't norm, especially in third world.

only in last decade PAF upgraded F 16 to carry BVRs

But New JF 17s are from the beginning BVR capable

SO now PAF has 2 BVR capable fighters> F 16 Block 52D and JF 17

These fighters will steadily replace older Non-BVR Fighters in coming years, so PAF will have an significant advantage

For China> In case of china, their major fighters like J 7 was copy of Mig 21 and Mig 21 wasn't BVR capable from scratch; nor did china had capacity(in 1960s) to upgrade their J 7s to carry BVR missiles on their own; without any soviet assistance.

As for J 8 is concerned, i think China got earlier model of Su 15 lacking BVR capability

also chinese doctrine placed emphasis on numbers as China needed thousands of fighters to sufficiently cover it's enormous airspace; BVR capacity was not the priority (at least till 80s, as far as my limited knowledge suggests)

Now that J 10B will steadily being inducted, it will replace these old fighters and will become workhorse of PLAAF.

For Bangladesh> very low budget

 

[sancho]

India
Airforce
All of our fighters are BVR capable!

Nonsense, what about all the other Mig 21s except of the Bisons, what about the hundreds of Mig 27 and Jaguars? Not even our Mirage 2000s are really BVR capable now, so we have to modernise our fleet just as our neighbours are. And who is buying BVR less new fighters?

 

[Su-11]

Your list is full of old fighter infos .. nothing on Mig-29s of BAF or JF-17s or F-16s of PAF ..Mr Expert..
And cut the insults... your thread is as pathetic as you.

Oh for the love of god!! I only gave the bvr-less fighters list for obvious reasons.
Those fighters form the bulk of their respective Airforces, not F-16s or MiG-29s.

For Pakistan> Majority of PAF fighters serving were inducted in 60s and 70s and at time BVR capable fighters weren't norm, especially in third world.

But New JF 17s are from the beginning BVR capable

We too inducted fighters from 70's and 80s and upgrade them, while they did upgrade them but not with BVR capability(Eg: Mirage ROSE upgrade). strange!

JF-17s BVR capability is still under testing i gather.

Nonsense, what about all the other Mig 21s except of the Bisons, what about the hundreds of Mig 27 and Jaguars? Not even our Mirage 2000s are really BVR capable now, so we have to modernise our fleet just as our neighbours are. And who is buying BVR less new fighters?

As far as I know, they are in active reserve and not deployed. If they are deployed then under which squadrons are they deployed in?

As for MiG-27s and Jaguars, please read my reply.

Bangladesh is getting new F-7s.

Mirage-2000s are not BVR? What the...?? You're wrong.

 

[IND151]

This is what you wrote




Are they still operating many BVR less fighters - Yes... So does we.

Are they buying new BVR less fighters- no.... all new acquisitions incl F-16s and JF-17s are BVR capable which are replacing all those fighters u have posted from wiki..


So just check whats wrong with you and who is spamming what...

and also existing F 16 Block 52 D in PAF have been upgraded to carry BVRs