Which Aircraft Will Replace the Mirage 5PA3 in the Naval Aviation for PAK Navy

[GuardianRED]

Jf17 also has data link ... Irst is in process of induction in blk 3 ... Already purhased snipper pods ...hmd is already in negotiations... Radar range of klj7 is nit bad ... Small size of jf17 wil give it advantage ...

Data link only with air assets (sea assets??) Snipper pod is american only for the F16s u have, can't just put them on JF17 without the americans or the chinese. (maybe another one??)

IRST is a still long way (2018??) JF17 is an all metal bird though small isn't invisible to radar
HMDs Negotiation?? (which one??)
Can't comment on the Radar here, does it have air to sea (surface) modes? how is it?

 

[tarrar]

Pakistan is having very limited options. JF17 Blk 3 is going to be advance, so lets wait & see how upcoming JF is going to look like & JF17 is a option for PN. For overseas fighter I don't know what PAF is up to & which future aircraft they are considering or in talks with, which will replace the old dying fighters such as Mirage fleet.

 

[war&peace]

I think right now aircraft for PAF would be the priority.

May be the aircraft the air force is retiring can be moved to Navy? It won't be the best solution but can't hurt to have the ability to launch saturation attacks against enemy fleets.

PAF is retiring the A/Cs after extensive over-use of the machines and those would good for nothing when they get retired... All I can think of some placement in museums, squares / round abouts and other public displays.
Furthermore, normally twin engine heavy fighters are used for maritime roles with large payload capacities and ferry range. Thus a few aircraft like Su-35, JH7B, J-15, J-11 can do a great job especially since PNS does not possess an ACC.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Background
Currently The Navy's Naval Air Arm operates the MiragePA3 for ASW roles. These aircraft are old and are costing more and more to keep operational. And the need for a replacement is becoming more in need considering India is soon to upgrade its Naval Fighter Aircraft, the MIG-29UPG/K's.

So what are the Options?
Not much. The navy spent most of its cash on 8 AIP Submarines which costed us a draw dropping 5 Billion Dollars. So we don't have a lot of cash in the bank. Luckily only 40 aircraft should be good, 2 squadrons. 1 based in Gwadar and the other in Karachi.

JF-17
Here is our only real option. A JF-17 variant for the navy that is fitted for ASW roles. Good thing is the JF-17 can already carry a wide array of weaponry including the CM-400AKG anti-ship missile. Though the Trade off isn't the best. The JF-17 block 2 currently is inferior in most aspects compared to the MIG-29K. Probably similar to the initial MIG-29's that rolled out in the 80-90's. Hopefully the Block 3 can actually be current with the worlds top 4.5+ gen fighters. Because as of now we will be blasted out of the sky against MIG-29UPG's and Rafale's.

Pakistan Naval Air Arm does not operate any fighter aircraft.
Fighter aircraft cannot be used in ASW role.

 

[shah1398]

JF-17s have already flying in air to sea role in Number 2 squadron and the same was exhibited in defence day program of Sar-e-Aam. Nonetheless with advent of CPEC and changing scenarios around we badly need a heavy with long range/endurance to augment JF-17s there.

 

[The Accountant]

Data link only with air assets (sea assets??) Snipper pod is american only for the F16s u have, can't just put them on JF17 without the americans or the chinese. (maybe another one??)

IRST is a still long way (2018??) JF17 is an all metal bird though small isn't invisible to radar
HMDs Negotiation?? (which one??)
Can't comment on the Radar here, does it have air to sea (surface) modes? how is it?

As for sniper pod contract with aslan already signed ... There are multiple options being considered for hmd.. Including selex and chinese .. Although i agree its a long way as its for block 3 ...
For avionics ... Its current radar is quite impressive and ofz it can work on look down mode evidence is integration of bvr antiship long range missiles such as cm400akg and cm802

Regarding integration with sea assets ... From last decade pakistan is working on net centric environment ... It has established its own link 17 which will be connecting all the air ground and sea assets for real time data sharing ... Exact status of implementation is unknown due to secracy involved ... Thats the reason pakistan is focusing on increasing the no of existing platforms rather than going for entirely new platform as integration with network might be difficult due to suppliers possible restrictions on source code

Regarding rcs you have much outdated info .. Block 2 has composites in structure along with dsi hence much reduced rcs in comparison to mig 29 which is twin engine is much bigger plane ...

So where mig 29 has advantage of range payload there are significant chances that jf17 will be able to see mig 29 few seconds earlier ... However God knows the actual scenario ...

 

[jupiter2007]

PAF is retiring the A/Cs after extensive over-use of the machines and those would good for nothing when they get retired... All I can think of some placement in museums, squares / round abouts and other public displays.
Furthermore, normally twin engine heavy fighters are used for maritime roles with large payload capacities and ferry range. Thus a few aircraft like Su-35, JH7B, J-15, J-11 can do a great job especially since PNS does not possess an ACC.

I have been hearing about fbc/jh-7 since 2005. China offered it few times and each time it was rejected by PAF. Jh7B is still a old week design and it will never be part of PAF or PN.

J-15/J-16D is a good option for PN and PAF but all depends on Russian approval.

 

[Zarvan]

For sometime now JF-17 but in future I hope upcoming J-16 of China which is similar in features if compared to E-18 Growler

 

[GuardianRED]

As for sniper pod contract with aslan already signed ... There are multiple options being considered for hmd.. Including selex and chinese .. Although i agree its a long way as its for block 3 ...
For avionics ... Its current radar is quite impressive and ofz it can work on look down mode evidence is integration of bvr antiship long range missiles such as cm400akg and cm802

Regarding integration with sea assets ... From last decade pakistan is working on net centric environment ... It has established its own link 17 which will be connecting all the air ground and sea assets for real time data sharing ... Exact status of implementation is unknown due to secracy involved ... Thats the reason pakistan is focusing on increasing the no of existing platforms rather than going for entirely new platform as integration with network might be difficult due to suppliers possible restrictions on source code

Regarding rcs you have much outdated info .. Block 2 has composites in structure along with dsi hence much reduced rcs in comparison to mig 29 which is twin engine is much bigger plane ...

So where mig 29 has advantage of range payload there are significant chances that jf17 will be able to see mig 29 few seconds earlier ... However God knows the actual scenario ...

Pal, sorry to rain on your parade , but your entire post is full of speculation

The Sniper Pod i.e AN/AAQ-33 (Advance targeting Pod) is an American product that is built for specific for American frames (eg. F16s) and so far has been tested on nato frames too. There is NO way a third party can be given, to put it on a chinese frame , even without the chinese. You are confusing this with another Targeting Pod, go check. Speculation here is which and when??

PN on net certic environment , again secrecy involved is another word for speculation, still, will give you that

Block 2? how many have been built so far? and how many for maritime role? % of composites? speculation.
The MiG is with 15% composite + radar absorbing material coupled with IRST and EW suite has reduced its RCS, all this is stated

Radar again pal, u need to read up on the JF17 , can track 10 engage 2 targets. The MiG can track 10 and engage 4 targets, this tells u with have a more powerful and better range Radar.

This added to a range of sea and air assets such as ship tracking, Heli + fixed wing AEW, Dedicated naval surveillance satellite all linked together etc. + There is a whole list of sensors and equipment for the MiG29K, lots to read. Best is to look it up!

 

[The Accountant]

Pakistan Naval Air Arm does not operate any fighter aircraft.
Fighter aircraft cannot be used in ASW role.

I humbly like to disagree ... Whayt

Pal, sorry to rain on your parade , but your entire post is full of speculation

The Sniper Pod i.e AN/AAQ-33 (Advance targeting Pod) is an American product that is built for specific for American frames (eg. F16s) and so far has been tested on nato frames too. There is NO way a third party can be given, to put it on a chinese frame , even without the chinese. You are confusing this with another Targeting Pod, go check. Speculation here is which and when??

PN on net certic environment , again secrecy involved is another word for speculation, still, will give you that

Block 2? how many have been built so far? and how many for maritime role? % of composites? speculation.
The MiG is with 15% composite + radar absorbing material coupled with IRST and EW suite has reduced its RCS, all this is stated

Radar again pal, u need to read up on the JF17 , can track 10 engage 2 targets. The MiG can track 10 and engage 4 targets, this tells u with have a more powerful and better range Radar.

This added to a range of sea and air assets such as ship tracking, Heli + fixed wing AEW, Dedicated naval surveillance satellite all linked together etc. + There is a whole list of sensors and equipment for the MiG29K, lots to read. Best is to look it up!

I am talking about sniper pod of aselan not us sniper pod ...
Secondly check about jf17 blck 2 it is stated that it is with composite as a result its twr has invreased to 1.09 if you are not following jf17 development then i cant do anything aout it

29 blk 2 built and whle of navy squadron is of block 2 ... So for maritime role blk 2 is to be considered not blk 1

You also need to read jf17 ...

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

I humbly like to disagree ... Whayt


.

You can disagree mate, Your choice.
I flew in the PN air arm for 11 years, so I know better I guess.

 

[GuardianRED]

I humbly like to disagree ... Whayt


I am talking about sniper pod of aselan not us sniper pod ...
Secondly check about jf17 blck 2 it is stated that it is with composite as a result its twr has invreased to 1.09 if you are not following jf17 development then i cant do anything aout it

29 blk 2 built and whle of navy squadron is of block 2 ... So for maritime role blk 2 is to be considered not blk 1

You also need to read jf17 ...

Pal, there are so many Articles. on the JF17, it is confusing , 29 Nos??? Didn't find anywhere it is said as such. Still will give u that

There is NO SUCH thing as SNIPER Pod of ASELAN...... "SNIPER" is the Band name for the Specifc AN/AAQ-33 (Heck i think the name is trademark) .... The ASELAN built one - is simply called Advance Targeting POD (NOT Sniper) Is this confirmed? How many and when?

Here is what my Research on JF17 ,

JF-17’s maritime role explained (From an article 2015)

AC Mahmood confirmed that the No. 2 squadron from Masroor would be equipped for anti-ship warfare (AShW). However, there are some caveats, primarily owing to the JF-17’s inherent structural limitations. The C-802 anti-ship missile (AShM) in use with by PAF is a heavy missile, and as a result, the JF-17 will carry just one AShM in a mission, with the remaining hard-point stations reserved for fuel-pods and air-to-air missiles.

I suppose in-flight refuelling could help address this issue somewhat by alleviating the needs for the tanks, but this does not change the reality of the JF-17 being a lightweight fighter. The need to address the maritime theatre with a heavier and longer-range fighter was one of the purported reasons why the PAF was reportedly looking at the Sukhoi Su-35 from Russia.

U need to update your own info on JF17

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

The option is not perticular to navel need but in genric. What r possibilities of Japanies fighter jet in pipeline of Pak.

 

[The Accountant]

You can disagree mate, Your choice.
I flew in the PN air arm for 11 years, so I know better I guess.

Then cant disagree... Can you please let us know mirage role with exocet ?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Then cant disagree... Can you please let us know mirage role with exocet ?

Mirage armed with AM-39 is ASV (Anti-Surface-Vessel) in the anti-ship role only.
It is used either in OTHT or TPT mode.

(OTHT = Over the Horizon Targeting)
(TPT = Third PArty Targeting)