Which AESA radar fits better the JF-17 Block 3?

[ghazi768]

I never put words in ur mouth just gave opinion about your remarks which u do not understand that's why I have requested to Mr Bilal Khan as a pro to enlighten us all as he is also against induction of KLJ7A. He may be able to satisfy u and others.

You are entitled to your opinion, I have no issue with that..

Further if u bring AWACS then I will refer to AWACS killers being installed by IAF fighters. Further PESA radars on SU30 are going to be upgraded soon however in current form they are also still much powerful and u cannot compare KLJ7 with them.
The threat assessment and before hand mitigation is always wise.

I'll prefer to not get into AWACS killers, threat is there no doubt but is over rated.
For comparing Su-30 radar with JF-17, you are again doing a one on one comparison. For what, a 80,000 pounds bomber against a 28000 pounds fighter.. one with volume of about four times the other.. RCS many times the other..

Rafael is not just a good fighter but the most capable fighter after F22 and F35 currently under production.

Bullcrap...

 

[araz]

He may tell me whether ZDK03 AWACS is a junk as we'll, so we can improve it or directly throw into garbage bin. I didn't get offended because he said our product is inferior, he said its junk. Can you easily move on when other call your weapon is junk? To be fair.

To be fair the point remains that a man of his seniority will havs access to stuff whoch you and I can only dream about. Regarding k03 the news is the radars wilp be upgraded to the k500standard AESA. THE QUESTION ONE NEEDS TO ASK IS WHY IT IS BEING DONE IF THE PRODUCT IS SOUND. Look the point remains that some products have not been upto the mark and have subsequently been improved. You can argue on ones choice of words till the cows come home but at the end of the day it is his opinion. Live with it or ignore it or move on. That choice is yours and I mean it with the utmost of respect for you.
Regards
A

 

[MastanKhan]

where is your arrogance comging from calling it junk?

very unfriendly and disrespectfu, you think Chinese is fool?

HMDS is not alien technology, i can easily assemble a Iphone here in my home town. whne you talk some thing in Western tone, you dont forget you are a Pakistani origin. you dont talk something you dont know.

I think PAF is smarter than you i think？ let them do the choice.

Hi,

I think that china has come a long ways---.

Tragically it has been manipulated by many a foreign buyer---like making a tier 1 product---a tier 2 product---a tier 3 product---coming out from the same factory.

If someone can change the chinese mindset for not making any adjustment to lower the quality of the product and make it as TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT 1 tier 1 quality product.

It was just when the americans had their industry---you could close your eyes and buy a made in USA equipment---.

Honda believes in a 110% quality product---their product costs much more to build---but then customer satisfaction is higher and lesser chance of failure---.

I wish I remembered the name and the name of the book of the american economist who setup the japanese industrial standards in the 50's / 60's---it was a fascinating read---.

When I worked at norm reeves honda---a # 1 honda dealership in the world---we were asked to read that book to understand where Honda product was coming from---.

As @Oscar stated---if the chinese can manufacture the Iphone for world over sales---and keep up the quality---the chinese can do the same with their product.

And if the Paf steps on the toes of the manufacturers---it can manipulate a better product.

I am pretty sure that there is awakening in the chinese military that 2nd grade quality is not acceptable anymore---the product quality has to be Tier 1---and Tier 1 alone at all costs---no ifs and butts about it---no excuses---because the opponent will not give you the second chance---.

@Sinopakfriend

 

[帅的一匹]

To be fair the point remains that a man of his seniority will havs access to stuff whoch you and I can only dream about. Regarding k03 the news is the radars wilp be upgraded to the k500standard AESA. THE QUESTION ONE NEEDS TO ASK IS WHY IT IS BEING DONE IF THE PRODUCT IS SOUND. Look the point remains that some products have not been upto the mark and have subsequently been improved. You can argue on ones choice of words till the cows come home but at the end of the day it is his opinion. Live with it or ignore it or move on. That choice is yours and I mean it with the utmost of respect for you.
Regards
A

It's normal update , cause the DAR with KJ500 is generation ahead. I'm not mad at Bilal. He can call Chinese product inferior and not up to mark, but junk definitely an unnecessarily insult. I'm a patriotic man, I need to do something to defend our dignity.

Unfortunately people do change as they grow older, especially at your age. They become senile. I understand you are a knowledgeable person but there is a difference between an insult and being blunt and straight forward. Junk means the item cannot or can hardly be used at all which I think is insulting. I think wanglaokan is extremely peeved and sad because he may find it difficult to fully respond to Bilal Khan without offending his Pakistani friends.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

Hi,

I think that china has come a long ways---.

Tragically it has been manipulated by many a foreign buyer---like making a tier 1 product---a tier 2 product---a tier 3 product---coming out from the same factory.

If someone can change the chinese mindset for not making any adjustment to lower the quality of the product and make it as TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT 1 tier 1 quality product.

It was just when the americans had their industry---you could close your eyes and buy a made in USA equipment---.

Honda believes in a 110% quality product---their product costs much more to build---but then customer satisfaction is higher and lesser chance of failure---.

I wish I remembered the name and the name of the book of the american economist who setup the japanese industrial standards in the 50's / 60's---it was a fascinating read---.

When I worked at norm reeves honda---a # 1 honda dealership in the world---we were asked to read that book to understand where Honda product was coming from---.

As @Oscar stated---if the chinese can manufacture the Iphone for world over sales---and keep up the quality---the chinese can do the same with their product.

And if the Paf steps on the toes of the manufacturers---it can manipulate a better product.

I am pretty sure that there is awakening in the chinese military that 2nd grade quality is not acceptable anymore---the product quality has to be Tier 1---and Tier 1 alone at all costs---no ifs and butts about it---no excuses---because the opponent will not give you the second chance---.

@Sinopakfriend

Now the civil industry will have a chance to attend the R&D and manufacturing of military equipment. We will see a leap in quality and capacity in the future, I told you Chinese army is great fan of USA.

The global political surrounding is very harsh for China, means China will have to make certain conservation in weapon export except to Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

Unfortunately people do change as they grow older, especially at your age. They become senile. I understand you are a knowledgeable person but there is a difference between an insult and being blunt and straight forward. Junk means the item cannot or can hardly be used at all which I think is insulting. I think wanglaokan is extremely peeved and sad because he may find it difficult to fully respond to Bilal Khan without offending his Pakistani friends.

Hi,

My only work experience has been in the U S---.

What I learnt was that an insult at work by a superior was not an insult---it was to check my temperament---see how I reacted---and how I re-adjusted myself and attitude---.

What I also learnt was that insult was not an insult alone---there was also a message behind it---a test of my tenacity---my ability to comprehend things---the control of my anger and temperament---and looking beyond the insult to look at the actual picture---to listen and understand what WAS BEING SAID & NOT WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR.

I have tried that technique over here many a times with my pakistani colleagues---and I can tell you---most often I have failed to get thru.

So---what @Bilal Khan 777 has stated---if he was addressing me---I would not take that as an insult---but I would rather look at it at what he was saying---.

Once one understands the difference between " what he is saying " & " what I am hearing "---life gets interesting.

 

[帅的一匹]

The first time China promote J10A to PAF, they found it not good enough compared to F16 BLk52. Then comes the deep improved version of J10b/c, when PAF found that FC31 is come in handy and give a cold shoulder to J10b/c. Sometimes you have to believe Karma. It's not about Chins doesn't give the best to Pakistan, it's about the progress is too fast for PAF to keep at the pace.

Hi,

My only work experience has been in the U S---.

What I learnt was that an insult at work by a superior was not an insult---it was to check my temperament---see how I reacted---and how I re-adjusted myself and attitude---.

What I also learnt was that insult was not an insult alone---there was also a message behind it---a test of my tenacity---my ability to comprehend things---the control of my anger and temperament---and looking beyond the insult to look at the actual picture---to listen and understand what WAS BEING SAID & NOT WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR.

I have tried that technique over here many a times with my pakistani colleagues---and I can tell you---most often I have failed to get thru.

So---what @Bilal Khan 777 has stated---if he was addressing me---I would not take that as an insult---but I would rather look at it at what he was saying---.

Once one understands the difference between " what he is saying " & " what I am hearing "---life gets interesting.

Somehow I accept your points. You are the only one can make me feel it in this forum. kudos!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Any criticism is like water off my back---as long as I feel that I am 100% sincere in my efforts in saying what I understand and believe--

The first time China promote J10A to PAF, they found it not good enough compared to F16 BLk52. Then comes the deep improved version of J10b/c, when PAF found that FC31 is come in handy and give a cold shoulder to J10b/c. Sometimes you have to believe Karma. It's not about Chins doesn't give the best to Pakistan, it's about the progress is too fast for PAF to keep at the pace.


Somehow I accept your points. You are the only one can make me feel it in this forum. kudos!

Hi,

When it was available in 2012-2014---it was a different aircraft---. The arrogance of the Paf created the problem and not that of the J10's.

The Paf was wrongly betting on the DONE DEAL of the F16 BLK52 on the free money---and not understanding what had changed in the U S.

Plus some had bad mouthed the J10's---so it would be really really embarrassing for the Paf to go back to the J10's---.

The arrogance got the better of the Paf and not the J10---. Out of shame---the stuck to the F16---.

It is a TYPICAL pakistani trait---when they make a bad decision---they tend to drown in that decision.

That is what happened---nothing wrong with the J10B or J10C's.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Any criticism is like water off my back---as long as I feel that I am 100% sincere in my efforts in saying what I understand and believe--


Hi,

When it was available in 2012-2014---it was a different aircraft---. The arrogance of the Paf created the problem and not that of the J10's.

The Paf was wrongly betting on the DONE DEAL of the F16 BLK52 on the free money---and not understanding what had changed in the U S.

Plus some had bad mouthed the J10's---so it would be really really embarrassing for the Paf to go back to the J10's---.

The arrogance got the better of the Paf and not the J10---. Out of shame---the stuck to the F16---.

It is a TUICAL pakistani trait---when they make a bad decision---they tend to drown in that decision.

That is what happened---nothing wrong with the J10B or J10C's.

Incisive comment

Hi,

Any criticism is like water off my back---as long as I feel that I am 100% sincere in my efforts in saying what I understand and believe--


Hi,

When it was available in 2012-2014---it was a different aircraft---. The arrogance of the Paf created the problem and not that of the J10's.

The Paf was wrongly betting on the DONE DEAL of the F16 BLK52 on the free money---and not understanding what had changed in the U S.

Plus some had bad mouthed the J10's---so it would be really really embarrassing for the Paf to go back to the J10's---.

The arrogance got the better of the Paf and not the J10---. Out of shame---the stuck to the F16---.

It is a TUICAL pakistani trait---when they make a bad decision---they tend to drown in that decision.

That is what happened---nothing wrong with the J10B or J10C's.

Which one is more important. Pakistan's national security or PAF's face.

 

[MastanKhan]

Incisive comment


Which one is more important. Pakistan's national security or PAF's face.

Hi,

Paf's face is more important---because in Pakistan---they are worshipped after God---.

Why do you see the Paf creating excuses---. Paf can get the right package for the J10's---as it is getting for the JF17's---.

It is general common sense---there is a massive shortage of 200 aircraft in the airforce---with the current production rate of the JF17's---it will never be able to fill up the hole---.

Now if they go for the J10's---and it far exceeds the expectations---and people start questioning the Paf's wisdom---the shame would be too much.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Paf's face is more important---because in Pakistan---they are worshipped after God---.

Why do you see the Paf creating excuses---. Paf can get the right package for the J10's---as it is getting for the JF17's---.

It is general common sense---there is a massive shortage of 200 aircraft in the airforce---with the current production rate of the JF17's---it will never be able to fill up the hole---.

Now if they go for the J10's---and it far exceeds the expectations---and people start questioning the Paf's wisdom---the shame would be too much.

J10b, a baby given birth by both China and Pakistan(Pakistan give lot of advice in J10 improvement) is going to BAF. I feel somehow weird about it. It's supposed to serve in PAF. It's a regret in my life.

Generation of mine had hoped J10 in PAF's color for more than 10 years, it can't realize forever.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

What I said about a Chinese product, it was taken personally as if I am insulting China. Very emotional reaction. I have been working with China before some of the forum contributors were born. I have personally met the Chairman on more than one Occasion. He gave me a Chinese name. Now do you think I hate China? Grow up. The personal attacks on me, or whether I am calling for attention, or if I have access or not are beneath me. It doesn't bother me. Thank you to both who attack me, or defend me. It helps me separate the men from the boys.

a

Unfortunately people do change as they grow older, especially at your age. They become senile. I understand you are a knowledgeable person but there is a difference between an insult and being blunt and straight forward. Junk means the item cannot or can hardly be used at all which I think is insulting. I think wanglaokan is extremely peeved and sad because he may find it difficult to fully respond to Bilal Khan without offending his Pakistani friends.

You seem to not have his problem in your disguised insult for me. Thanks.

 

[帅的一匹]

What I said about a Chinese product, it was taken personally as if I am insulting China. Very emotional reaction. I have been working with China before some of the forum contributors were born. I have personally met the Chairman on more than one Occasion. He gave me a Chinese name. Now do you think I hate China? Grow up. The personal attacks on me, or whether I am calling for attention, or if I have access or not are beneath me. It doesn't bother me. Thank you to both who attack me, or defend me. It helps me separate the men from the boys.

a


You seem to not have his problem in your disguised insult for me. Thanks.

Veteran, you still have my respect. could you please don't call it junk, instead you can name it inferior or not up to mark? Cause we both Adault and need some face.

 

[MastanKhan]

What I said about a Chinese product, it was taken personally as if I am insulting China. Very emotional reaction. I have been working with China before some of the forum contributors were born. I have personally met the Chairman on more than one Occasion. He gave me a Chinese name. Now do you think I hate China? Grow up. The personal attacks on me, or whether I am calling for attention, or if I have access or not are beneath me. It doesn't bother me. Thank you to both who attack me, or defend me. It helps me separate the men from the boys.

a


You seem to not have his problem in your disguised insult for me. Thanks.

Hi,

Love it----in american slang that is called " showing tough love " ---you rip the head off and shove it up and then say " smile you SOB if you want to keep your job"---and they will do it to those they love and want to work with---and not to those they want to terminate.

I can tell you guys---I have smiled a few times with my eyes moist.

@wanglaokan I think what the Paf has done for the Plaaf just cannot be told.

Words from @Bilal Khan 777 are just like getting a little spanking from your older brother in my case---and maybe 'papa' in your case---. If I was you---I would smile---.

 

[帅的一匹]

I can't deny some of the Chinese member like to get on the high horse they actually don't know how pathetic Chinese weapon are 20 years ago. I'm definitely not one of them. So please control your sphere of devastation.

China and Pakistan Zindabad!

@Bilal Khan 777 thanks for all the work you had done for Pakistan China relationship. Thanks your tough love, it wake people up.

@MastanKhan thanks for your kind meditation. Thanks!

 

[gambit]

Junk means the item cannot or can hardly be used at all which I think is insulting.

Or when the item is fully functional but is inferior to competing products in all areas. Like it or not, that is the reality.

When I was active duty, we were very liberal with the label 'junk' for everything that we used or assigned to us that we know is far less preferable than its peers. You think the US soldiers were kind to the early M16 ? Even Eugene Stoner tried to distance himself from the rifle.

We are talking about warfare here. Lives are at stake. The soldier's, or airman's or sailor's, survival depends on the tools immediately on hand. If any group that has a right to liberally cast the word 'junk' -- it is the military.