When Islamic atheism thrived

[JonAsad]

You do not have a monopoly over any religion or faith.

Well i dont wanno. Cheers Mate

 

[DaRk WaVe]

God can split Moon but it cannot fix it in a perfect way

 

[DaRk WaVe]

correct agree with you 100%!

HOWEVER, the basis of islam are on "leap of faith"!

none of us ever saw the prophet or his companions! we never saw gabriel or Allah either! YET our whole belief is on complete faith! now if we doubt the super natural then we doubt the prophet and eventually doubt our god Allah!

so either we start questioning everything even the book! you can't pick & choose and challenge what you like & what you dislike.

as for believing in the "super natural" well you can have a whole world of non believers in any faith.

Because every religion has had some element of super natural:

1)Moses split the sea
2) David twisted iron & made body armour
3)Solomon ruled every living thing including jins!
4)Jesus could cure leper

First i am not targeting any particular religion, I am talking about theists in general, The reason of article was that people must at least think what freedom existed in the middle ages & how people logically challenged the very foundations of Islam & religion which is all based of the 'assumptions' & belief in super natural things

the very basis of faith is flawed because it wants us to believe & take the things defined by religion into our instincts & wants us NOT to question these things

plus seeing the responses of people here its pretty much clear that all the 'super natural deeds & beings' are deeply rooted in their instincts & they are scared to read the things which deny & challenge their existence

now please tell me if we sit down to question all these events in every religion then we will have no religion left!

True, but why not question it WHY???
why are you scared that 'there will be no religion'?

as for us not understanding these "supernatural events"

well i am sure if someone in the 700A.D said the world was round people would have laughed at him. Or in the 1500s if we go back in time in a plane i am sure they would think we are "supernatural" beings!


so just because we don't understand something because we lack knowledge doesn't make things UNTRUE.

so you mean its all the matter of time before all super natural phenomenons are explained

 

[Durran3]

Sorry I disagree, Science and religion are mutually exclusive. However the conclusions that can be drawn from knowledge are not. for example, Science can explain how the Big Bang happened but not why.

And some of those "Why" questions are not legitimate questions either. Why do we have rainbows? Why is the color red Red? Why do we have two legs? Why do men have nipples?

Questions like these are just for canon fodder and have no base for any rational discussion either. Some questions are just not legitimate Questions and to fill that void religion comes into play and answers those dubious questions with further dubious answers like the rainbow being a Bow for Indra the God of lightning, rain and thunder in hindu mythology

 

[Ahmad]

And some of those "Why" questions are not legitimate questions either. Why do we have rainbows? Why is the color red Red? Why do we have two legs? Why do men have nipples?

Questions like these are just for canon fodder and have no base for any rational discussion either. Some questions are just not legitimate Questions and to fill that void religion comes into play and answers those dubious questions with further dubious answers like the rainbow being a Bow for Indra the God of lightning, rain and thunder in hindu mythology

The sense of curosity in human being have led us to the advances and other developments we see in this world. Otherwise what was the differnce between an animal and human being? we could have simply fed ourseveles, slept, reproduced like sheep or cows. those curosity and asking those question have taken us to massive discorveries and understanding this world and ourselves.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

not really related but still, an interesting article.....

about synthetic Life

you can see the video by following the link....

Craig Venter creates synthetic life form | Science | The Guardian

Craig Venter creates synthetic life form​

Craig Venter and his team have built the genome of a bacterium from scratch and incorporated it into a cell to make what they call the world's first synthetic life form

Scientists have created the world's first synthetic life form in a landmark experiment that paves the way for designer organisms that are built rather than evolved.

The controversial feat, which has occupied 20 scientists for more than 10 years at an estimated cost of $40m, was described by one researcher as "a defining moment in biology".

Craig Venter, the pioneering US geneticist behind the experiment, said the achievement heralds the dawn of a new era in which new life is made to benefit humanity, starting with bacteria that churn out biofuels, soak up carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and even manufacture vaccines.

However critics, including some religious groups, condemned the work, with one organisation warning that artificial organisms could escape into the wild and cause environmental havoc or be turned into biological weapons. Others said Venter was playing God.

The new organism is based on an existing bacterium that causes mastitis in goats, but at its core is an entirely synthetic genome that was constructed from chemicals in the laboratory.

The single-celled organism has four "watermarks" written into its DNA to identify it as synthetic and help trace its descendants back to their creator, should they go astray.

"We were ecstatic when the cells booted up with all the watermarks in place," Dr Venter told the Guardian. "It's a living species now, part of our planet's inventory of life."

Dr Venter's team developed a new code based on the four letters of the genetic code, G, T, C and A, that allowed them to draw on the whole alphabet, numbers and punctuation marks to write the watermarks. Anyone who cracks the code is invited to email an address written into the DNA.

The research is reported online today in the journal Science.

"This is an important step both scientifically and philosophically," Dr Venter told the journal. "It has certainly changed my views of definitions of life and how life works."

The team now plans to use the synthetic organism to work out the minimum number of genes needed for life to exist. From this, new microorganisms could be made by bolting on additional genes to produce useful chemicals, break down pollutants, or produce proteins for use in vaccines.

Julian Savulescu, professor of practical ethics at Oxford University, said: "Venter is creaking open the most profound door in humanity's history, potentially peeking into its destiny. He is not merely copying life artificially ... or modifying it radically by genetic engineering. He is going towards the role of a god: creating artificial life that could never have existed naturally."

This is "a defining moment in the history of biology and biotechnology", Mark Bedau, a philosopher at Reed College in Portland, Oregon, told Science.

Dr Venter became a controversial figure in the 1990s when he pitted his former company, Celera Genomics, against the publicly funded effort to sequence the human genome, the Human Genome Project. Venter had already applied for patents on more than 300 genes, raising concerns that the company might claim intellectual rights to the building blocks of life.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

self deleted

 

[Hyde]

God can split Moon but it cannot fix it in a perfect way

EmO there is no harm in free thinking and i do agree with your point but please do find the definition of Free Thinkers and rebellious peoples.

By making silly jokes on God you are harming nobody but yourself

i seriously find no difference between those TTP talibans and you as they are extremists in spreading strict Islam by crossing the boundaries of Islam and you are extremist in losing the values of Islam and challenging the existance of god again and again. Both of you claims to be Muslims for some reasons but keep raping the limitations created by Allah. By doing this trust me it is neither going to benefit this religion nor damage its foundations as the religion has already been perfected during the time of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.

Why cant you just take rest for a while? everytime i come i see nothing but some silly posts of so-called respective members of this forum in this Holy thread.

And do not dare to mind as i also hold my right of free thinking

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

so guys i am becoming atheist, Its fun, i mean no checks and boundaries and i can do anything and by anything i mean anything..except for gay marriage and lesbian stuff..

i didnt knew atheist had that much fun . When can i join the club

Atheism its killing me ..

 

[Durran3]

The sense of curosity in human being have led us to the advances and other developments we see in this world. Otherwise what was the differnce between an animal and human being? we could have simply fed ourseveles, slept, reproduced like sheep or cows. those curosity and asking those question have taken us to massive discorveries and understanding this world and ourselves.

You failed to understand the point I was making. There is a different between legitimate questions and dubious questions that serve no purpose except to fill a certain void.

Questions like Why do men have nipples and Why do we have rainbows are dubious questions which serve no purpose. What we can ask however is HOW are rainbows created and How men's nipples came into being. Do you see the difference?

What do Batteries run on or why do pigs have curly tails can only be answered by a religious person

 

[Ahmad]

You failed to understand the point I was making. There is a different between legitimate questions and dubious questions that serve no purpose except to fill a certain void.

Questions like Why do men have nipples and Why do we have rainbows are dubious questions which serve no purpose. What we can ask however is HOW are rainbows created and How men's nipples came into being. Do you see the difference?

What do Batteries run on or why do pigs have curly tails can only be answered by a religious person

and why shouldnt we question the existence of men's nipples? I am sure there is a reason for men to have nipples. how the nipples were created and came into existecne is another quetion. i dont know how you classify the questions as legitimate and ilegitimate? question is question, there is no legitimacy and illegitimacy in it.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

^^
Yea even a stupid question is a question after all..!

 

[Ahmad]

^^
Yea even a stupid question is a question after all..!

Nobody was talking about stupid question. he was saying legitimate and illegitmate.

 

[sur]

Some are too frustrated by ban on FB etc that they decided to take up that role themselves,,, & r trying to convince ppl that we can be better of without such bans. & look at the sense of insecurity they have,,, "displacing" their inner fears onto trolls..

Plus i hope this thread wont be closed because of some trolls

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...According to the Zumurrud, the distance between Mecca and Jerusalem is not very great, and it is conceivable that a person could go from one of these cities to the other and back in one night, so the Prophet's presentation of his ability to describe Jerusalem as a miracle is a fraudulent trick (makhraq)....

The works of these philosophers were criticized by the much hailed ...

So much for this "philosopher" "Mr.Rational Thinker",,,
Distance b/w Makkah & Jerusalem is 767 miles(1235Km)
Average speed of a horse is 10-17mph,,, gallop can be 30mph but cannot be sustained,,, so it would take 45 hours of continuous non-stop run for a horse to go from Makkah to Jerusalem & then 45 hrs to come back,,,, & this "Mr.I know-more-than-God" thinks 90 hrs make one night ,,, & don't forget the time prophet needed to take a good look at Jerusalem coz he had to come back describe it to amaze ppl.

Even the Prophet's ability to predict the future (as in the case of the slaying of Ammar b. Yasir) is not regarded as a miracle, since it is claimed that any astrologer can do that.(152)

did Prophet anywhere said he was the ONLY one who could predict future!!!!... nops... Infact he told us that soothsayers do have means where they get knowledge of future,,,

He also believed that all human beings were equal in their intellectual capacities as they were in all other things.

If he ment men-women equality then,, yeh yeh,, men can get pregnant, women can grow beard, & there's NO premenstrual-syndrome which 85% of women go thru everymonth whereby suffering emotional instability & memory loss.

But he argued since all r equal so there was NO need to select one person to be the mediator,,, then we should follow his doctorine & make 170million prime-ministers in Pakistan instead of just one,, afterall all are equal,,, u know, they would share responsibilities & would run affairs very well. Lets have 11 captains for our cricket team or 15, even better.

Secondly, religion's popularity rested on the close alliance between clerics and political rulers

Ground realities r not that supportive for the logic of ur ideals unfortunately, conflict rather alliance is seen b/w clerics & leaders,,, ppl follow religion by their free-will & that is what makes cleric powerful,, not the other way round.
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here comes the funniest part so far:-

Thirdly, the lavish and imposing character of the attire of religious men contributed to the high regard in which they were held by common people

A man once herd of Prophet's fame & decided to pay a visit,,, he presumed it'd be a person dressed like a rajah & sitting high on the stage,, when he entered the mosque he asked where's the Muhammad I heard of so much,,, ppl pointed where he was,,, man said he looks just like ordinary man & he couldn't even distinguish him from the rest,,,,,,,, This was what early leaders of islam looked like,,, thousands followed them without getting impressed by any lavish attire as ur ideals have suggested.

Furthermore, he found that prophets' pronouncements and stories often contradicted those of other prophets. If their source was divine revelation as is claimed, their views would have been identical.

despite heavily human-modified bible, stories are still more co-herent than Mr.Philosopher's rational reasoning.

So this was the best freedom-of-speech could produce,,, I bet restricted freedom-of-expression would produce better than "philosophers" of IQ below 70.
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Craig Venter creates synthetic life form​

A dry seed is non-living with NO biochemical reactions taking place,,, A farmer sows it into ground & & when water imbibes into the seed biochemical reactions start & seed becomes a living being,,, it grows & reproduces,,, Those farmers have been doing since ages what Mr.Craig Venter is bragging about so much... So ur another attempt to prove that there's no GOD Almighty is licking the dust.

 

[Durran3]

did Prophet anywhere said he was the ONLY one who could predict future!!!!... nops... Infact he told us that soothsayers do have means where they get knowledge of future,,

Nobody knows about the future and anyone who claims that he does is lying and spitting on your face and questioning your intellect. Nobody knows whats going to happen in the future and they certainly don't possess mental powers and abilities that I or you don't have.

He also believed that all human beings were equal in their intellectual capacities as they were in all other things.

If he ment men-women equality then,, yeh yeh,, men can get pregnant, women can grow beard, & there's NO premenstrual-syndrome which 85% of women go thru everymonth whereby suffering emotional instability & memory loss.

lol what? What you just described are all the physical differences which have nothing to do with a persons intellectual capacity. Learn to read again next time..