What Iran’s Attacks on American Bases Tell Us About China’s Missile Program

[925boy]

China has never provided Iran with a single ballistic missile nor ballistic missile technology. Where is the evidence for such claims? It seems this guy is resorting to fantasies in order to easer the pain Iran caused them by the attack.

......that you know of....i also believe and agree China has provided Iran with BM related technology or/and equipment.

 

[Philosopher]

......that you know of....i also believe and agree China has provided Iran with BM related technology or/and equipment.

People are free to believe in something if there is no evidence for it. You're entitled to your own opinion.

 

[925boy]

The question is where is any hard evidence to suggest this? Especially what we're talking about here is the actual transfer of major missiles technology and/or components. The only evidence we have between Iran and another nation regarding ballistic missiles cooperation, is between Iran and the Koreans. Even that is mainly regarding decades ago. I have yet to see anything between Iran and the Chinese. We seen transfer of missiles from China to Saudis and Turkey, but not Iran. What is actually hard to believe is the notion that the Chinese were helping the Iranians and yet we have nothing to show that.

Well if you want evidence, for example, there is a chinese man who has been brokering steel alloy/casings sales from CHina to Iran, and US has put him under sanctions currently and he keeps a low profile. THese type of cases tell us there is "illegal" military material or/and technology transfer from China to Iran.

While Iran is VERy resourceful and has its own domestic military technology and capabilities, its hard to believe Iran produces ALL the parts needed for modern, lighter, faster, more effective, more reliable missiles and rockets...just not possible for a developing country...all countries need international trade and transfers to produce advanced things, like missiles.

People are free to believe in something if there is no evidence for it. You're entitled to your own opinion.

THats not my point- my point is that you should go dig deeper and you will see evidence of Missile related transfers from CHina to Iran. Remember, its UN sanctioned to transfer such things to Iran, so China wont do it openly in teh first place, but you can know whose doing it for ex by who US treasury dept sanctions. Follow the sanctions and you will find the culprits.

 

[Philosopher]

Well if you want evidence, for example, there is a chinese man who has been brokering steel alloy/casings sales from CHina to Iran, and US has put him under sanctions currently and he keeps a low profile. THese type of cases tell us there is "illegal" military material or/and technology transfer from China to Iran.

While Iran is VERy resourceful and has its own domestic military technology and capabilities, its hard to believe Iran produces ALL the parts needed for modern, lighter, faster, more effective, more reliable missiles and rockets...just not possible for a developing country...all countries need international trade and transfers to produce advanced things, like missiles.


THats not my point- my point is that you should go dig deeper and you will see evidence of Missile related transfers from CHina to Iran. Remember, its UN sanctioned to transfer such things to Iran, so China wont do it openly in teh first place, but you can know whose doing it for ex by who US treasury dept sanctions. Follow the sanctions and you will find the culprits.

Given the simple fact Iran has such a large and diverse missile program (by far the largest in the middle east) it is simply not logical to assume they're relying on imports for such a large program. There is not a chance of Iran's missile program being the size it is today if they were relying on imports (it could simply not grow to the size it today). Even if Iran could import, given the extensive efforts by the Americans etc what Iran could import would be extremely limited. Iran may have tried to import various technologies for reverse engineering purposes etc, but nothing like what some people are trying to suggest in sense that Iran is relying on imports.

 

[925boy]

Given the simple fact Iran has such a large and diverse missile program (by far the largest in the middle east) it is simply not logical to assume they're relying on imports for such a large program.

Actually i think its the opposite- The large size guarantees that it requires external parts or/and support(experts) to make the domestic program so robust. How can it be so large, so advanced, basically ON PAR with to biggest countries, while Iran is a developing country that also under heavy sanctions???? It doesnt add up. Nobody is saying CHina is providing heavy assistance to Iran, but there is a strong chance that either China provides parts for Iran's missile program, OR/AND Chinese and NK experts are on ground in Iran currently, helping Iran's missile program. CHina is more advanced than Iran is Ballistic missiles, so it makes defacto logical sense that CHina is something to offer Iran in that regard, so somethings will flooow from China to Iran.

There is not a chance of Iran's missile program being the size it is today if they were relying on imports (it could simply not grow to the size it today).

Oh there is definitely a good chance. Iran is not a 1st world country , and it iscurrently under tough US sanctions, so how can this same Iran have 1st world country level Ballistic missile without any imports? Many countries use imports for their military products, EVEN US, so there is a very good/solid chance that Iran uses some imports for its Missile program. Iran produces 70% of its oil industry's equipment locally, so what % is it for its military industry? it cant be 100%!

Even if Iran could import, given the extensive efforts by the Americans etc what Iran could import would be extremely limited.

Really? you see, we as citizens see these things are black and wite, but these govts, esp those with international power and capabilities, they dont see these things like us individual humans. Lines are blurred. CHina or Russia can put heavy AD equipment on its heavy duty transport planes and fly them into Tehran. What would US do??? There has already been secret transfer of equipment because we know countries have done this historically..so they must still do it. why not???

Iran may have tried to import various technologies for reverse engineering purposes etc, but nothing like what some people are trying to suggest in sense that Iran is relying on imports.

THis is a contradiction- You only import what you need. Iran imports for many reasons too, this isnt a simple field or situation....i think you're oversimplifying these situations and spaces they occur in.

 

[Philosopher]

Actually i think its the opposite- The large size guarantees that it requires external parts or/and support(experts) to make the domestic program so robust. How can it be so large, so advanced, basically ON PAR with to biggest countries, while Iran is a developing country that also under heavy sanctions???? It doesnt add up. Nobody is saying CHina is providing heavy assistance to Iran, but there is a strong chance that either China provides parts for Iran's missile program, OR/AND Chinese and NK experts are on ground in Iran currently, helping Iran's missile program. CHina is more advanced than Iran is Ballistic missiles, so it makes defacto logical sense that CHina is something to offer Iran in that regard, so somethings will flooow from China to Iran.

I don't see this happening. Why? simply because in terms of quantity, Iran produces way too many missiles in order for them to be relying on foreign imports, even if it just on average one part per missile, even that is way too much.

Oh there is definitely a good chance. Iran is not a 1st world country , and it iscurrently under tough US sanctions, so how can this same Iran have 1st world country level Ballistic missile without any imports? Many countries use imports for their military products, EVEN US, so there is a very good/solid chance that Iran uses some imports for its Missile program. Iran produces 70% of its oil industry's equipment locally, so what % is it for its military industry? it cant be 100%!

We're talking about Iran's missile industry here. Something it has been working on for the last 40 years almost with huge resources being poured into it. You are way underestimating Iran ability in the missiles sector.

Really? you see, we as citizens see these things are black and wite, but these govts, esp those with international power and capabilities, they dont see these things like us individual humans. Lines are blurred. CHina or Russia can put heavy AD equipment on its heavy duty transport planes and fly them into Tehran. What would US do??? There has already been secret transfer of equipment because we know countries have done this historically..so they must still do it. why not???

Even if a single person tries to export even some materials to Iran, the US will find out (and they have done), you want me to believe Iran is importing tons and tons of parts for its vast missile arsenal and they're all getting through? Once again bro, Iran simply produces too many missiles for it to be importing anything. It makes no sense.

THis is a contradiction- You only import what you need. Iran imports for many reasons too, this isnt a simple field or situation....i think you're oversimplifying these situations and spaces they occur in.

No contradiction there bro. I am saying it makes no sense for Iran to be mass importing anything for its missile program. Few parts here and there maybe, but no way it is importing heavily in the sense it is reliant on imports.

 

[Philosopher]

The only thing iran can produce for missiles is paint, so they can paint them and name them and then propaganda mouthpieces dance to it.

I am aware you're just a troll, but I will give you chance to back your claims. Lets see how far you get.
Okay, so explain to me the origin of this missile.

This is Fateh series missile which pounded the US air base recently.

 

[925boy]

I am aware you're just a troll, but I will give you chance to back your claims. Lets see how far you get.
Okay, so explain to me the origin of this missile.

This is Fateh series missile which pounded the US air base recently.

I believe he is actually talking about Pakistan, not Iran.

 

[925boy]

People are free to believe in something if there is no evidence for it. You're entitled to your own opinion.

There is evidence, just indirect/implied and discreet. Not out and about loud and proud. Issues like this are sensitive and secretive so even US wont want to put ALL of Iran's biz out there regarding things like this....that could also let some people the US govt wants to catch get an advance warning to evade arrest, sanctions etc.

 

[FedererExpress]

The question is where is any hard evidence to suggest this? Especially what we're talking about here is the actual transfer of major missiles technology and/or components. The only evidence we have between Iran and another nation regarding ballistic missiles cooperation, is between Iran and the Koreans. Even that is mainly regarding decades ago. I have yet to see anything between Iran and the Chinese. We seen transfer of missiles from China to Saudis and Turkey, but not Iran. What is actually hard to believe is the notion that the Chinese were helping the Iranians and yet we have nothing to show that.

Where do you think North Korea got their missile technology from?

Iran is a country under sanctions which means China can’t directly transfer weapons technology to Iran. However, China can use North Korea (another country under sanctions) as an intermediary to transfer weapons technology to Iran.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Chinese scientists were in Iran assisting Iranian scientists on their missile program.

 

[Philosopher]

Where do you think North Korea got their missile technology from?

Iran is a country under sanctions which means China can’t directly transfer weapons technology to Iran. However, China can use North Korea (another country under sanctions) as an intermediary to transfer weapons technology to Iran.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Chinese scientists were in Iran assisting Iranian scientists on their missile program.

Iran-north Korea cooperation was from years ago. We're talking about today. The simple fact still remains, if any nations attempts to import such technology to Iran, they'll be caught. And we are talking about limited qualities here and there. Some of the people here seem to be under the delusion that Iran's active missiles program-relies on imports. Given the vast size of Iran's missile program, it is beyond folly to think they're importing parts etc for it. Iran's missile program would never be the size it is today if they were reliant on the outside. As for North Korea and China, well obviously China is right next door, so they could easily transfer systems to them.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Chinese scientists were in Iran assisting Iranian scientists on their missile program.

And why would China be doing that exactly? China did not even hold up its end of the deal when it came to exporting some simple cruise missiles to Iran, yet we're suppose to believe they have given Iran missile experts. Be realistic.

 

[Mithridates]

Where do you think North Korea got their missile technology from?

Iran is a country under sanctions which means China can’t directly transfer weapons technology to Iran. However, China can use North Korea (another country under sanctions) as an intermediary to transfer weapons technology to Iran.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Chinese scientists were in Iran assisting Iranian scientists on their missile program.

if that was the case Iran military equipment would have JUMP in terms of quality, while we know that fateh missile family developed over 20 years from early fateh-110 to dezful missile in last year and recent raad missile inheriting precision and range of fateh-313, is cheaper, easy to make and lighter than it because of using carbon fibers in the structure. very same carbon fibers that US was trying to negotiate over their production facilities...
there is a pattern in way of people think about Iran military industries that leads to this kind of comments, and that is the fact that first you do not follow our developments then you regard our achievements as propaganda and then after one or two decades that we come with globally remarkable products you can't believe it and because you have no idea of our capabilities and say it's Chinese or Russian or Korean made.
BTW we ruined this thread as it was about china capability to use ballistic missile as an area denial tool to balance the power in a confrontation with US and in my 100 percent opinion china can do the same even with less cost per missile as we mainly rely on INS guidance but china can use it's satellites to achieve pin point accuracy.

 

[Philosopher]

Relying on satellites for guidance would be okay in some peacetime operation but in an actual major conflict, one should not rely on satellite navigation due to jamming and kinetically destroyed satellites. INS guidance is the way to go.

If there ever was a major conflict, marks my words, satellites are one of the first things to go.