What happens when the TPP kicks in?

[macnurv]

No, the short clip doesn’t prove that she is ignorant about Malaysian politics. Her not mentioning bumiputra in that short clip does not mean that she is ignorant about it.

You're just going round and round, yet ending up utterly unable to defend her.

She also doesn’t mention that Vietnam is a single party authoritarian state, so can I conclude that that she is ignorant about that fact? No, everyone knows that fact. Her not mentioning it in that short clips does not entails that she is ignorant about our one party system. And what you’ve said in the first reply is no secret, especially to regional observers.

No, she just suggested that for investors some how magically Malaysia or Vietnam is a more lucrative compared to China at the moment.

She may indeed be ignorant about it, or maybe not. The onus is on you to prove that she is, since you were the one who have made that claim. And those short clips does not prove anything whether she is ignorant of it or not. So where is your proof that she is ignorant of Malaysian politics?

You're the one using a sound bite to build your whole case, and I am the one who must debunk her BS, which I already did in the context on her comment on Malaysia and the status of TPP in particular.

Did you read my post? I said VN has no advantage over Malaysia in terms of infrastructures, workforce, etc. Everyone knows this.

So why did she said VN will have more adavantage in attracting investors than Malaysia (other than lower wage)? my suggestion was that she knows something about your current messy internal politics.

You're again going round and round, I answered what she implied and what you choose to run with.

When did I said VN will become an Asian giant within 1 year?

This is utterly a strawman. And you wasted your time adding comments on top of this strawman.

Straw man is the word of the day for you it seems. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of VN claims.

No, I dont have to provide any defense. I only reposted her comments.

You were the one that claimed that she is ignorant about Malaysian politics ans insinuated that she is biased. So the onus is on YOU to provide arguments to back up these claims.

Strange, yet here you are defending what she said.

You may be a PhD, or you maybe not. The difference here, is that I can verify her PhD degree from reputable sites while you are claiming to be a PhD anonymously on a forum.

Btw, I’m a nobel peace prize laureates.

So I should send you a copy of my Ph.D degree, so you can verify that indeed I hold one. But that is beside the point to you her comments are valid because of her degree, completely overlooking the weakness of her argument or lack of fundamentals of Malaysian and regional situation or she is choosing intentionally to make such comments.

I am happy for your noble price.

 

[William Hung]

How could I give concrete example when TPP is negotiated in secrecy fashion? Even what I learn about TPP is 2nd level information of presentation slides from government. Do you have original TPP negotiating documents? May be you can give me the direction to online original source? If so, let me see it and take time to study it. If it is not too difficult for me to understand, we will have a good discussion based on concrete example. Perhaps you should discus how TPP is good deal for VN by referencing TPP negotiating documents?

And this is precisely my point...you keep saying that TPP would be bad or unfair to Vietnam but can’t provide any concrete examples to show how it would be so.

As for TPP being positive for Vietnam, you would need to ask NiceGuy...but I don’t know qhy he was banned when their are much worst trolls here.

I can talk about the US opening its market to VN’s industry and their removals of certain tariffs and quotas, but I won’t bother. I’m just a messenger here providing links. Whoever claim it would be negative, I just want to ask them to explain specifically how it would be in the VNmese context, that is all.

On "one woman" thing. What I said was I don't know her "HC". You have to provide me the info about this HC and why she is a card on VN side. Please do not forget you told me nothing except HC is a woman, and is a card. If you refuse to find me HC, I will stop talking about it. Coz I don't know what you are talking about. I could also say that "AKE" is a man and a card of Thailand, and ask you to find his info on internet.

I’ve never said HC is a woman. It seems like you are looking at the wrong direction. VN is not a monarchy where we have a special woman (or man) who holds special power. Well we do kind of, but thats not what I was trying to hint.

Im not here to convince or prove that we have a special card. I just want to give you some hints if you are interested in it, that is all. Whether you stop discussing about it and disbelieve it, its up to you.

 

[somsak]

And this is precisely my point...you keep saying that TPP would be bad or unfair to Vietnam but can’t provide any concrete examples to show how it would be so.

As for TPP being positive for Vietnam, you would need to ask NiceGuy...but I don’t know qhy he was banned when their are much worst trolls here.

I can talk about the US opening its market to VN’s industry and their removals of certain tariffs and quotas, but I won’t bother. I’m just a messenger here providing links. Whoever claim it would be negative, I just want to ask them to explain specifically how it would be in the VNmese context, that is all.



I’ve never said HC is a woman. It seems like you are looking at the wrong direction. VN is not a monarchy where we have a special woman (or man) who holds special power. Well we do kind of, but thats not what I was trying to hint.

Im not here to convince or prove that we have a special card. I just want to give you some hints if you are interested in it, that is all. Whether you stop discussing about it and disbelieve it, its up to you.

1. We all guessing bro. U no concrete me no concrete. We all conspiracy.

2. Iwould like to know. So tell me kore about VN card if things get out of hands explicitrly. No hint plz.

 

[William Hung]

All your water (including rain water and water underneath your property) will belong to Nestlé, Coca Cola etc. (see South America)

First of all, VN’s water supply sector are all currently state owned. Can you provide sources affirming that water will be forced to be privatized after the TPP?

Secondly, VN’s state controlled water supply is garbage. It is also the case for other state owned sector like Electricity supply. Not only is it horrible, inefficient, accused of being unfairly manipulated and costly by consumers...but some of these state owned company are rampant with corruption.

Can you have relaible data to show that it will be worst even after privatising? Any before/after analysis or forecast? or are you just guessing based on examples of other foreign countries with different contexts?

All your seeds will be infertile, traditional seed harvesting and exchange will be verboten. Seeds must be bought annually from Monsanto & Co. (see Iraq)

Again, show me reputable data/analysis/reports for the specific Vietnamese context? Or are you just making gueses

GMO and all the other disgusting stuffs cannot be verboten anymore. Eat and die slowly and painfully or don't eat and die faster.

heh the GMO debate. Show me scientific evidence to back up your claim. For some anti-GMO arguments or “evidences”, there are always counter arguments for pro-GMO camp.

Btw, GMO is already present in VN, long before TPP has been concluded.

National souvereignty … errrr … what souvereignty? It's the Corpocracy that rules you, idiot!

Again, can you provide concrete examples or data or documents to prove this? What you’ve already said above is not even concrete.

BTW, VN currently is ruled less by MNC that Europe...so why dont you walk the talk and relocate to VN? Or are you all talk and no walk?

1. We all guessing bro. U no concrete me no concrete. We all conspiracy.

I just want to hear the guy on top who keeps rambling on how it is going to be bad but he doesnt provide any concrete data/good forecast yet.

2. Iwould like to know. So tell me kore about VN card if things get out of hands explicitrly. No hint plz.

You dont need special inside knowledge bro. You just need to look inside VietNam. If we play this card, the US will not be happy but most likely they will be forced to accept it. Well just forget it if this is still not clear.

 

[somsak]

Good luck VN with TPP. We will see whether Thailand will join. We will also see if VN really join. In the end when we are old, we will see who make a better choice today.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Your analogy is still not valid...because it is not the MNCs who have the sole power to create the rules over the member states...like how Britain had that power over its subject. Who creates the rules for the TPP? It is the member states, not the MNCs. The MNCs only have whatever the power/rights that are given to them by these negotiating TPP states, which include Vietnam and Malaysia. So your analogy of MNC vs. State being the same as Britainia vs. colonial subjects is not valid.

You could use conspiracy theories arguing it is the US+Japan who are creating the unfair TPP laws on behalf of the MNCs but you would need to provide concrete examples of this, especially how it would be demerital to VN. Plus you all seems to ignore that VN has a voice in the negotiating table, if we don’t like their terms, we could leave the negotiation. This is not the case of Britainia vs. colonial subjects where they have no voice other than to submit to Britain.

So far, I always see people here talks about how the TPP will be bad for VN but have never give any concrete examples. Not to mention most haters here are not informed about VN anyway. For example, the biggest worries, for me personally, is in the pharmaceutical industry...the MNCs in this industry will have a lot more power. But it would mostly affect countries like Australia and NZ who both have relatively very good govt subsidy scheme in their healthcare system. The TPP will change this. But it doesnt matter for VN...like Ive always said before, VN is socialist in name only, and our healtcare system is rubbish, a lot less socialist than Aus/NZ...so TPP will not effect the normal man like it would for people in Aus/NZ.

Now I want to hear from you guys concrete examples of how VN is gona be screwed by the TPP.




VN fate hangs on one women??? How did you come with this absurd idea? I never said this. As for the clue, you can figure it out if you look deep into VN and find something unique we have that the other TPP states doesn’t possess.

No, its not what NiceGuy previously said about SCS chokepoint etc. No one has mentioned it on this forum yet, including the Viet members, thats the only other clue I will give.



So can you see the clip? If not, then why make a joke about it when you dont know when it was made? fyi, it was made last week, not before July.



Think carefully before you speak man. My mom have always told me that.

The court has being proposed to be located in the US, not set up and dictated by the US.

The Arbitral Tribunal is located in the Hague, so are you now going to say the Netherlands has special power to dictate its rule on all the other countries? Are you going to say a court is only fair if they are located on neutral territory...so where? On Mars?

Listen carefully, the court are being set up by all the negotiating states but located in the US.

Hey no need for the butthurt comments..I was only stating the fact，what I said is “on foreign soil”，not “by foreign power”，if you think I was insinuating.. well，so does everyone who follow the news.

BTW are you vietnamese？I don‘t see flags flying

 

[William Hung]

You're just going round and round, yet ending up utterly unable to defend her.


No, she just suggested that for investors some how magically Malaysia or Vietnam is a more lucrative compared to China at the moment.


You're the one using a sound bite to build your whole case, and I am the one who must debunk her BS, which I already did in the context on her comment on Malaysia and the status of TPP in particular.



You're again going round and round, I answered what she implied and what you choose to run with.




Straw man is the word of the day for you it seems. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of VN claims.





Strange, yet here you are defending what she said.




So I should send you a copy of my Ph.D degree, so you can verify that indeed I hold one. But that is beside the point to you her comments are valid because of her degree, completely overlooking the weakness of her argument or lack of fundamentals of Malaysian and regional situation or she is choosing intentionally to make such comments.

I am happy for your noble price.

LOL read again from the beginning. I posted a clip and transcribed the comments from that woman. You were the one who first made a claim, that she is ignorant of Malaysian politics, etc...so it is you who have to present your arguments, not me...

So where is your proofs that she is ignorant of Malaysian politics?

Hey no need for the butthurt comments..I was only stating the fact，what I said is “on foreign soil”，not “by foreign power”，if you think I was insinuating.. well，so does everyone who follow the news.

BTW are you vietnamese？I don‘t see flags flying

LOL if you werent implying foreign power then your comments wont make any sense...China has also settled some trade disputes with courts on foreign soil, so what would that mean according to your original comments?

How many times have I already said I am Viet? I think maybe 50 times now. Havent we also discussed Viet politics before?

 

[Götterdämmerung]

First of all, VN’s water supply sector are all currently state owned. Can you provide sources affirming that water will be forced to be privatized after the TPP?

Secondly, VN’s state controlled water supply is garbage. It is also the case for other state owned sector like Electricity supply. Not only is it horrible, inefficient, accused of being unfairly manipulated and costly by consumers...but some of these state owned company are rampant with corruption.

Can you have relaible data to show that it will be worst even after privatising? Any before/after analysis or forecast? or are you just guessing based on examples of other foreign countries with different contexts?



Again, show me reputable data/analysis/reports for the specific Vietnamese context? Or are you just making gueses



heh the GMO debate. Show me scientific evidence to back up your claim. For some anti-GMO arguments or “evidences”, there are always counter arguments for pro-GMO camp.

Btw, GMO is already present in VN, long before TPP has been concluded.



Again, can you provide concrete examples or data or documents to prove this? What you’ve already said above is not even concrete.

BTW, VN currently is ruled less by MNC that Europe...so why dont you walk the talk and relocate to VN? Or are you all talk and no walk?



I just want to hear the guy on top who keeps rambling on how it is going to be bad but he doesnt provide any concrete data/good forecast yet.



You dont need special inside knowledge bro. You just need to look inside VietNam. If we play this card, the US will not be happy but most likely they will be forced to accept it. Well just forget it if this is still not clear.

If you feel concerned, than go and do some research as it's not me who will suffer the consequences. If you are not concerned, than just treat my post as some senseless babble.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

LOL if you werent implying foreign power then your comments wont make any sense...China has also settled some trade disputes with courts on foreign soil, so what would that mean according to your original comments?

Acutely I wasnt. I know the WTO court is the same，but the dispute is between sovereign countries. With TPP it‘s MNCs vs. government，witch is the concern by most.

 

[William Hung]

If you feel concerned, than go and do some research as it's not me who will suffer the consequences. If you are not concerned, than just treat my post as some senseless babble.

So...I will still need to wait for concrete data.

Seriously though, I am interested to read any new reputable sources. I have yet to find any good and detailed forecast reports for Vietnam on the effects of the TPP, good or bad. And any claims on the negative impact of the TPP on Vietnam has been unsubstantial guesses.

Acutely I wasnt. I know the WTO court is the same，but the dispute is between sovereign countries. With TPP it‘s MNCs vs. government，witch is the concern by most.

And who sets up this court? Who lay down the rules and regulations of the TPP? it is the government of the member states, not any MNCs.

Like what I’ve said...the MNCs will only have rights that are given to them by the negotiating states.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

And who sets up this court? Who lay down the rules and regulations of the TPP? it is the government of the member states, not any MNCs.

Like what I’ve said...the MNCs will only have rights that are given to them by the negotiating states.

I would say MNCs themselves.

For the US，they are the ones controlling the government，not the other way around. Lobbying by special interest groups is a huge industry in the US , witch mainly serve MNCs own interests. And by lobbying, I mean bribing.

But this is going nowhere，you can continue to believe the TPP is a wonderful organization and I continue to believe it‘s dead，and feel pity for it.

 

[JaiMin]

1. About Britain and current TPP. I agree and fully aware of what you said. Theoretically it is a fair. In reality, there are one side call MNC and the other side call the state. Because VN nearly does not have MNC, they are not fair. Do you see the game? Its like saying "Every Ocean Faring Ship company can sue any ASEAN government" to Lao, and then yeah. Its fair for every ocean going faring ship nations, but Lao has none. You understand my meaning? If the law provided is on favour of MNC to the government, then VN has no MNC company to take adventage of.
Another point is that the "international settlement body" Is it going to be real fair judge?

2. I don't know who HC is. Perhaps you can tell me somehow. Its to vast to find. If VN fate is to hang with one woman, then something weak is happening. What I read from Niceguy is that VN could pull back and void the TPP if things go out of hands. Do you know that such action would destroy TPP credibility and VN credibility than not joining?

PS. Thailand does not take a stance against TPP. It just concerns of these rules. Perhaps you would know that by being asked to negotiate on itself is an ongoing negotiation.

Well, TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership), just like any other trade pact, got it benefit and it down sight for the countries participate in it. I think the most significant ones like u said our government will not agree with the term ISDS (Investor-State Dispute Settlement). It provision directly affects the sovereignty of national jurisdiction and undermine national laws, especially in the areas of health. The law will be set by member states that paticipate in the trade pact, also they will create a trial law council and the lawyer there will be specialized in business, national and company law (each member states will got their candidates to negociate and make common law i guess)

This ISDS actually the concern of many countries that participate in TPP, not only our country, since the deal is secret, we don't know what is going on. Probably the law will be set on progress while the trade come first?

Got this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/b...s-door-for-foreign-suits-against-us.html?_r=0

The ISDS is actually not news. It has been practice in Europe for quite a time, Canada too. Just go Internet check France MNCs sued the Egypt government. Hillary Clinton fellow's or herself were also opposed to that ISDS terms in 2013 got a speech about that, i will tried to find it again

For the GMO crop things you said, i'm all the way for it as my country was deeply affected by global warming, more flood and storm together with drought near future. We need the tolerance crops that can withstand the condition that normal crop don't. I hope government spend money effectively on develop that GMO crops in that condition and it is not affect human health or environment

 

[macnurv]

LOL read again from the beginning. I posted a clip and transcribed the comments from that woman. You were the one who first made a claim, that she is ignorant of Malaysian politics, etc...so it is you who have to present your arguments, not me...

So where is your proofs that she is ignorant of Malaysian politics?

And going round and round again, her statement is an evidence in itself.

LOL if you werent implying foreign power then your comments wont make any sense...China has also settled some trade disputes with courts on foreign soil, so what would that mean according to your original comments?

How many times have I already said I am Viet? I think maybe 50 times now. Havent we also discussed Viet politics before?

LOL, you just lost the whole plot here.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

So...I will still need to wait for concrete data.

Seriously though, I am interested to read any new reputable sources. I have yet to find any good and detailed forecast reports for Vietnam on the effects of the TPP, good or bad. And any claims on the negative impact of the TPP on Vietnam has been unsubstantial guesses.

What, you don't know the content of that treaty?

Seem like some US multinational just kicked you out of your house, so you got a hard lesson to tell people here how Nestlé, Coca Cola work

Wow, that went fast into ad hominem.

BTW, Nestlé is not a US company.

 

[William Hung]

I would say MNCs themselves.

For the US，they are the ones controlling the government，not the other way around. Lobbying by special interest groups is a huge industry in the US , witch mainly serve MNCs own interests. And by lobbying, I mean bribing.

But this is going nowhere，you can continue to believe the TPP is a wonderful organization and I continue to believe it‘s dead，and feel pity for it.

Of course this won’t go anywhere because you are not engaging in an honest way here.

First, you said you were only pointing out that TPP is bad because disputes are settled “on foreign soil” and that you were not saying “by foreign power”.

When I brought up past Chinese settlements on foreign soil, you then change rhetoric and said “oh but its disputes between states, not MNCs”. So then, its now no long longer about “on foreign soil” but about “against foreign MNCs/power”. See how you change rhetorics and not being honest here.

So anyway, this is getting nowhere...better come to my Enka thread and enjoy the music with me.