What do Turks think of Byzantines?

[T-Bortecine]

Well the other question is what do the descendants of the Byzantine Empire think of the Turks or the Ottomons.

Not good. The reason is that many countries previously under the Ottomons blame their backwardness on the Ottomons. ( especially the balkans)

The western Europeans joined the chorus and referred to the Ottomons as uncivilized.

Ottomons were demonized and shadow of it is still visible as they do not allow EU membership for Turkey.

No Europeans imitated Turkish things in most of the time. Your taking utter rubbish and nonsense so much that I don't even need to write sources for this its a known fact.

 

[T-Bortecine]

I am Greek and I wouldn't say that. I I would definitely not call all Ottomans or Turks uncivilized. But civilization and culture have different meanings in different parts of the world. The devil is always in the details.

One has to question their own attributes before questioning others.

It is a typical that someone mentioned about the Greeks in the Ottoman empire in this thread that "it was a shame we didn't convert them to Islam, they were so few anyway" ..

that is where the game was lost, and all this time later, that particular dude, still doesn't get it.. details ...

So your not happy we never converted you by force, we never destroyed your language by force we could have done these. Just go to Greece and see most of the beautiful buildings is Ottoman Era buildings, architecture.

 

[Surenas]

This thread.

Come back when your father is owning this forum.

Besides that, the authenticity of that quote by Timur is questionable. Just like Ottoman-Turks', or Bortecine-T, quote about Muhammad talking about the 'mighty Turks's is completely bullcrap. No serious sources are backing that up.

The Timurids were heavily Persianized, like most other Turkic empires. It were the Persians (Samanids) who eventually converted the Turks (Ghaznavids) into Muslims. You guys are muslims 'thanks' to us.

 

[mehmeTcc]

mehmetcCc I doubt about its authenticity, but indeed Timur was seeing himself as a Central Asian warlord.

Seljuk dynasty, as well as Karakhanid dynasty, claimed themselves to be descendants of Afrasiyab/Alp Er Tunga.

Oh, c'mon, Seljuqs are Persianized after all.

 

[T-Bortecine]

Come back when your father is owning this forum.

Besides that, the authenticity of that quote by Timur is questionable. Just like Ottoman-Turks', or Bortecine-T, quote about Muhammad talking about the 'mighty Turks's is completely bullcrap. No serious sources are backing that up.

The Timurids were heavily Persianized, like most other Turkic empires.

Your a total joke. I think your talking about the quote about prophet said about Turks, this is not a oh this that it's open you can read it, and it's been said by even other nationalities and even Arabs so it wasn't us.

Timur was heavily Persianized? That's the funniest thing a person can say. He hated Persians to the max.

 

[Surenas]

Your a total joke. I think your talking about the quote about prophet said about Turks, this is not a oh this that it's open you can read it, and it's been said by even other nationalities and even Arabs so it wasn't us.

It's not open. I've found no source for that. Even Islamic forums aren't aware of those remarks by Muhammad.

Timur was heavily Persianized? That's the funniest thing a person can say. He hated Persians to the max.

BS. And I'm not necessary talking about Timur, but about the Timurid dynasty:

Persian

Illustration from Jāmī's "Rose Garden of the Pious", dated 1553. The image blends Persian poetry and Persian miniature into one, as is the norm for many works of the Timurid era.

Persian literature, especially Persian poetry occupied a central place in the process of assimilation of the Timurid elite to the Perso-Islamic courtly culture.[27] The Timurid sultans, especially Šāhrukh Mīrzā and his son Mohammad Taragai Oloğ Beg, patronized Persian culture.[14] Among the most important literary works of the Timurid era is the Persian biography of Timur, known as "Zafarnāmeh" (Persian: ظفرنامه&#8206, written by Sharaf ud-Dīn Alī Yazdī, which itself is based on an older "Zafarnāmeh" by Nizām al-Dīn Shāmī, the official biographer of Timur during his lifetime. The most famous poet of the Timurid era was Nūr ud-Dīn Jāmī, the last great medieval Sufi mystic of Persia and one of the greatest in Persian poetry. In addition, some of the astronomical works of the Timurid sultan Ulugh Beg were written in Persian, although the bulk of it was published in Arabic.[28] The Timurid ruler Baysunğur also commissioned a new edition of the Persian national epic Shāhnāmeh, known as Shāhnāmeh of Baysunğur, and wrote an introduction to it. According to T. Lenz:

“It can be viewed as a specific reaction in the wake of Timur's death in 807/1405 to the new cultural demands facing Shahhrokh and his sons, a Turkic military elite no longer deriving their power and influence solely from a charismatic steppe leader with a carefully cultivated linkage to Mongol aristocracy. Now centered in Khorasan, the ruling house regarded the increased assimilation and patronage of Persian culture as an integral component of efforts to secure the legitimacy and authority of the dynasty within the context of the Islamic Iranian monarchical tradition, and the Baysanghur Shahnameh, as much a precious object as it is a manuscript to be read, powerfully symbolizes the Timurid conception of their own place in that tradition. A valuable documentary source for Timurid decorative arts that have all but disappeared for the period, the manuscript still awaits a comprehensive monographic study. ''

Timurid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, c'mon, Seljuqs are Persianized after all.

Persianized have not anything to do with ethnicity. Those empires/dynasties were Turkic by ethnicity, but Persian by culture.

 

[mehmeTcc]

Come back when your father is owning this forum.

Besides that, the authenticity of that quote by Timur is questionable. Just like Ottoman-Turks', or Bortecine-T, quote about Muhammad talking about the 'mighty Turks's is completely bullcrap. No serious sources are backing that up.

The Timurids were heavily Persianized, like most other Turkic empires. It were the Persians (Samanids) who eventually converted the Turks (Ghaznavids) into Muslims. You guys are muslims 'thanks' to us.

You still don't get the point.
First of all, none of the dynasties Persianized, they were still using their own language, army was full with Turkmens, most of the governors must speak Turkish.
This is what Turks did:

Turkification (Turkish: Türkleşme when voluntary and Türkleştirme when involuntary) is a process of cultural or political change in which something or someone who is not a Turk becomes one, voluntarily or involuntarily.

There is no Turki(c)sh dynasty who abandon their own national identity and adopted a new one. Meanwhile, Turks assimilated the whole Central Asia and Asian Minor.

Persianized have not anything to do with ethnicity. Those empires/dynasties were Turkic by ethnicity, but Persian by culture.

No shvt. Taking a few (frankly, a lot actually) loanwords from Persian doesn't makes you a Persian.

 

[T-Bortecine]

Look what Timur said .

Biz ki Melik-i Turan, Emîr-i Türkistan'ız,
Biz ki Türk oğlu Türk'üz;
Biz ki milletlerin en kadîmî ve en ulusu
Türk'ün başbuğuyuz.!

 

[Surenas]

No shvt. Taking a few (frankly, a lot actually) loanwords from Persian doesn't makes you a Persian.

A few loanwords? What about this?

The major language of the period, however, was Persian, the native language of the Tājīk (Persian) component of society and the language of learning acquired by all literate and/or urban people. Already Timur was steeped in Persian culture[22] and in most of the territories which he incorporated, Persian was the primary language of administration and literary culture. Thus the language of the settled "diwan" was Persian, and its scribes had to be thoroughly adept in Persian culture, whatever their ethnic origin.[23] Persian became the official state language of the Timurid Empire

Timurid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like their architecture, arts, etc. was of Persian origins.

 

[T-Bortecine]

A few loanwords? What about this?



Timurid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like their architecture, arts, etc. was of Persian origins.

There is no such thing as persian architecture . Second we can see from Timurs words how he hated persians and talks about how hes ruling them.

 

[Surenas]

Look what Timur said .

Biz ki Melik-i Turan, Emîr-i Türkistan'ız,
Biz ki Türk oğlu Türk'üz;
Biz ki milletlerin en kadîmî ve en ulusu
Türk'ün başbuğuyuz.!

Sounds like the regular Gray Wolf bullcrap to me. Just like your Muhammad quote.

Need reference of that hadith

There is no such thing as persian architecture . Second we can see from Timurs words how he hated persians and talks about how hes ruling them.

No such thing as Persian architecture? Haha, all those poor academics must have studied for nothing than! It was Persian architecture that heavily influenced Turkic and Ottoman architecture.

 

[T-Bortecine]

Sounds like the regular Gray Wolf bullcrap to me. Just like your Muhammad quote.

Need reference of that hadith




No such thing as Persian architecture? Haha, all those poor academics must have studied for nothing than! It was Persian architecture that heavily influenced Turkic and Ottoman architecture.

how comes everything is bullcrap to you. Do you think the word basbug or something is greywolf? or when he said Turkistan you think its greywolf ? no need to argue with you your a joke. This is hes words and many from letters etc

 

[mehmeTcc]

A few loanwords? What about this?



Timurid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like their architecture, arts, etc. was of Persian origins.

The region was speaking Chagatai back then, Persian used only by middle-class. (which is not surprising because almost all of the teba was Persians)

 

[Targon]

Dude, the influence of Persian was like influence of French in 18th-19th centuries, it was something like a fashion, even Ottomans are heavily influenced from them that they borrowed thousands of words, most of the elite class was speaking French, architecture, literature was influenced as well, that doesn't mean they integrated into French society or something similar to this, you can understand what I'm saying no need to further explain.

Thats why I don't want to see you in these threads, because you always bring how Persians are superior sh.t and ruin the threads.

 

[T-Bortecine]

Dude, the influence of Persian was like influence of French in 18th-19th centuries, it was something like a fashion, even Ottomans are heavily influenced from them that they borrowed thousands of words, most of the elite class was speaking French, architecture, literature was influenced as well, that doesn't mean they integrated into French society or something similar to this, you can understand what I'm saying no need to further explain.

Thats why I don't want to see you in these threads, because you always bring how Persians are superior sh.t and ruin the threads.

Persian was never ever widely used. Today there is nothing called persia or even persian language is basically arabic language. Ottomans was heavily influenced by Arabic which is language of quran and as the Ottomans was caliphate and leader of all Muslims.

After Arabs invaded persians , they became arabs mostly and arab culture.