Volkswagen Busted For Cheating On Diesel Models -- And Owners Won't Like The Probable 'Fix'

[Hamartia Antidote]

Volkswagen CEO apologizes, orders external probe on emissions allegations

""I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public," Martin Winterkorn, Volkswagen's CEO, said in a statement. "We will cooperate fully with the responsible agencies, with transparency and urgency, to clearly, openly and completely establish all of the facts of this case." Winterkorn pledged to regain the public's trust."

 

[xenon54 out]

Ist that only limited to US?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Ist that only limited to US?

Germany to Investigate Volkswagen Over European Emissions Testing - WSJ

Volkswagen better pray they don't find anything wrong.

 

[xenon54 out]

Germany to Investigate Volkswagen Over European Emissions Testing - WSJ

I was thinking about getting a VW next, i like their new interrior and front, experts say the fine in US will bring VW in big trouble, who knows maybe the prices will fall after this.
But still i dont want to have trouble with my new car because of the cheating, god damnit, im gonna have to sit it out.

BTW your Peter C right?

 

[Audio]

Couldn't have come at a worse time i suppose:

VW Passes Toyota to Lead Global Sales in First Half of 2015 - Bloomberg Business

 

[Gauss]

kinda funny

 

[VCheng]

Germany to Investigate Volkswagen Over European Emissions Testing - WSJ

Volkswagen better pray they don't find anything wrong.

VW has already admitted that the same software bypass routines to cheat on emissions testing are installed on 11 million vehicles worldwide. They, as they say, are in deep shit.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

VW has already admitted that the same software bypass routines to cheat on emissions testing are installed on 11 million vehicles worldwide. They, as they say, are in deep shit.

Wow!!

Stock down another 20% right now.

Here's a link to the 11 million

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/business/international/volkswagen-diesel-car-scandal.html

"Volkswagen declined to say where the 11 million affected vehicles — more cars than Volkswagen produces in a year — were. But analysts said that as many as 10 million were probably in Europe, where Volkswagen is the dominant manufacturer, with more than double the market share of any competitor, and where diesels account for more than half of all vehicles sold."

Wow you even got a "Clean Diesel" window sticker.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Volkswagen Sets Aside $7.2 Billion to Pay for Emissions Cheating Scandal - NBC News

 

[Donatello]

The main issue was the life of the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) in the exhaust. As part of the emissions control system, it has to be covered by the manufacturer for eight years or 80,000 miles at least. If it is used as designed, it chokes up relatively quickly and costs VW about $1,000 to replace, sometimes twice during the warranty period. So VW took a calculated risk to save approximately a billion dollars in warranty repairs. Now it is caught and will have to face the penalty.

The problem i have with this investigation is that they haven't explained how the emissions readings were taken by the researchers. Is it like hooking up the computer to the car's computer and get the readings from there, which can be falsified.....or did they actually test the tail pipe exhausts.

If it is tail pipe exhaust, then how did VW manage to design a component that can work sometimes and other times not? Like if using DPF or Catalytic convertor, it is a passive device, it will always work....so how can engine spew less emissions? The only way it can emit less is when the engine is obviously not producing enough power.........but the moment it does, whether on the road or in the lab, the emissions should be same.

Like, what exact component allowed them to cheat?

 

[VCheng]

The problem i have with this investigation is that they haven't explained how the emissions readings were taken by the researchers. Is it like hooking up the computer to the car's computer and get the readings from there, which can be falsified.....or did they actually test the tail pipe exhausts.

If it is tail pipe exhaust, then how did VW manage to design a component that can work sometimes and other times not? Like if using DPF or Catalytic convertor, it is a passive device, it will always work....so how can engine spew less emissions? The only way it can emit less is when the engine is obviously not producing enough power.........but the moment it does, whether on the road or in the lab, the emissions should be same.

Like, what exact component allowed them to cheat?

The methodology employed by the researchers is clear and available for review if you would like to pursue it further. What VW did was to have special software subroutines that detected when the car was hooked up for emissions testing and limited the emissions, especially NOx, to meet the requirements. When the testing was over, it reverted back to it normal mode which allowed for up to 40 times more emissions than legal. This was done mainly by manipulating the fueling maps and combustion temperatures, but that meant more work for the passive devices to clean up exhaust. If the car was operated like that all the time, the life of those components would be greatly reduced, increasing VW's warranty repair costs since they were responsible for the emissions control equipment for 8 years or 80k miles, by law. So, once the test was over, the software allowed the engine to operate very differently than during the test, to increase the life of the passive devices, but greatly increasing the emissions in that mode. That is cheating, any way one slices it.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

The problem i have with this investigation is that they haven't explained how the emissions readings were taken by the researchers. Is it like hooking up the computer to the car's computer and get the readings from there, which can be falsified.....or did they actually test the tail pipe exhausts.

If it is tail pipe exhaust, then how did VW manage to design a component that can work sometimes and other times not? Like if using DPF or Catalytic convertor, it is a passive device, it will always work....so how can engine spew less emissions? The only way it can emit less is when the engine is obviously not producing enough power.........but the moment it does, whether on the road or in the lab, the emissions should be same.

Like, what exact component allowed them to cheat?

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf

VW Accused Of Using Software To Fool Emissions Tests: Welcome To The Internet Of Cheating Things | Techdirt

"The "switch" senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on various inputs including the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operation, and barometric pressure. These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure used for emission testing for EPA certification purposes. During EPA emission testing, the vehicles' ECM [electronic control module] ran software which produced compliant emission results under an ECM calibration that VW referred to as the "dyno calibration" (referring to the equipment used in emission testing, called a dynamometer). At all other times during normal vehicle operation, the "switch" was activated and the vehicle ECM software ran a separate "road calibration" which reduced the effectiveness of the emission control system (specifically the selective catalytic reduction or the lean NOx [nitrous oxides] trap.) As a result, emission of NOx increased by a factor of 10 to 40 times above the EPA compliant levels, depending on the type of drive cycle (e.g. city, highway)."

----------------------------------------------------

It must be some interesting software because there are some garages (at least here in MA) that actually do emissions tests with the car in gear by putting the wheels on rollers (like you see on a Dyno).

So steering wheel movement and whether the front wheels (unless AWD) are moving need to be taken into consideration.

The testers that found the problem actually had a portable emissions tester mounted in the trunk and they were driving long distances with it. Ironically they were trying to prove diesel can be a clean fuel source for long trips but the numbers showed the opposite.

VW's Emissions Cheating Found by Curious Clean-Air Group - Bloomberg Business

 

[VCheng]

Apparently, it may not be only VW with such a software emissions control cheat on its diesel engines, but other German manufacturers too. More details to come ......

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Volkswagen CEO resigns

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/b...resigns-amid-emissions-scandal.html?referrer=

 

[VCheng]

VW's new advertising tag line in USA: "Das Auto? Nein. Das Fraudo".