VIEW: Success lies in secularism —Dr Irfan Zafar

[IND151]

Islam-ism is a defeated, immoral idea which does not have the support of the people - because in reality it's a totalitarian ideology, barbarous and murderous in it's ethic - and so people are really afraid of it - after all, look at the example of the promoters of Islami-ism on the thread, murder and killing is what they imagine is Islam, can they be right?

Unfortunately Muslims of Pakistan do not yet have the confidence to answer this question in the negative?

your post is very mature. best post on this thread!!

 

[Janubaba]

Islam-ism is a defeated, immoral idea which does not have the support of the people - because in reality it's a totalitarian ideology, barbarous and murderous in it's ethic - and so people are really afraid of it - after all, look at the example of the promoters of Islami-ism on the thread, murder and killing is what they imagine is Islam, can they be right?

Unfortunately Muslims of Pakistan do not yet have the confidence to answer this question in the negative?

Islamism was and never will be defeated because Islam is from the creator not from a pathetic human being that is why Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the world And Islamic system will be implemented in the whole world and all those who oppose it will find no place to hide

 

[jetti]

Islamism was and never will be defeated because Islam is from the creator not from a pathetic human being that is why Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the world And Islamic system will be implemented in the whole world and all those who oppose it will find no place to hide

why should people who oppose islam have to hide? i am hindu, and i wil never ever follow islam. whats wrong with that ? you follow islam, its ok, you havent done any wrong.

 

[muse]

Because of the Barbarous and murderous part

 

[Janubaba]

why should people who oppose islam have to hide? i am hindu, and i wil never ever follow islam. whats wrong with that ? you follow islam, its ok, you havent done any wrong.

Because you don't want to face the truth sir Islam is even growing really fast in your country too

 

[venu309]

I have reading all the posts in this thread & I seriously think that straightening a dog's tail is far more of a possibility than expect logical educated reasoning from some of the members here...

 

[arihant]

Well when I said India is truly secular, but its constitution is. Your constitution itself is not secular how you can claim that you will provide equal rights all people.

Moreover, I am minority but still I can speak, work or become anything I wish, if I have capabilities similar those TATA, Tendulkar, Kalam, etc.

Probably you are not aware about Gujarat itself. I also live in Gujarat only. Here Home Minister in Jail because of murder of one terrorist. Since State is control by government, it is possible for state to join hands with rouge people but our constitution is supreme which is checked by our Supreme Court. This is the same Supreme Court who has barred our beloved Indira Gandhi, transferred cases from Gujarat to other state, etc. There is always rough material in building but it doesn't building will collapse. We have very strong constitution and I fully believe in Supreme Court to judge who is wrong and who is right.

I know you were in Gujarat that time and you have all information. It would be better if you could file affidavit in Supreme Court and give some proof. We need people like you who have all proofs. Those who see and don't report are bigger conspirator than those who do.

And finally about me. I am person who dislike extremist Hindus, doesn't believe in lot of things but still I don't say this to my friends or spread hatred. Moreover, if you know about my religion you will find, our religions sites have been destroyed by both Hindus and Muslims. But thats past, today I have all rights equal to each of those 80% hindus.

oh you're on quite the high-horse there....

if India truly was secular all these mass killings that have taken place against religious minorities wouldn’t be taking place, now would they? And if any person were to instigate such violence, the state would have briskly jumped in to stop them, instead of actively joining the pogrom (as happened in Gujarat).

You bhartis should build a secular india first and then claim a ''secular'' ethos.

 

[Mughal1]

Dear friends, Islam cannot be defeated because the world is moving toward islamic values as clearly stated in the quran.

As people continue their struggle against harmful elements in human societies, they are moving step by step towards islam.

It is because muslim elite and mullahs are following greed ideology just like the western capitalist economic system which is showing its signs yet more clearer that we have world full of troublesome people.

Muslims are only paying lip service to the quran and they only use quran for superstitious reasons that is why things are where they are amongst muslims.

As we all can see west is looking for ways to get its hand on other peoples' land and resources and trying to control means of production and distribution therefore it is using all sorts of tricks and twists.

West is not interested in educating people but in their destruction. The money it has spent so far could have been spent better in funding education in backward nations ie helping turn useless people useful that is leadership.

It seems people here know little about what is really going on in the real world.

It is silly to blame the weak for not doing the right thing when the srtong is doing all the wrong things.

Nation after nation has been destroyed by the west for what? Secularism and democracy which is not there even in the west. The gap between rich and poor has increased many folds even in the west.

Humanism is not a western value but a value of people who are loyal to humanity. It is only part of international human rights declaration because these people campaigned for it. It was not done by people in power just out of their good will for humanity.

What people in position of power are doing to humanity is obvious everywhere in the world including pakistan and india.

When such a huge number of people through out the world are living under poverty line and rather than doing anything for that people are busy waging wars to add to that misery, is there any sense in secular democracy any more?

So please look at all sides critically to see what is really the problem.

The problem is poverty which is human creation because some do not bother like living in this world and others want to destroy so much more than what they want for themselves before they get it.

It is because we lack sense and therefore do not care and so do not share that is why we are in conflict with each other.

This is why islam is the answer to all that is wrong in our world. Unfortunately west is not going to fund research on the quran, is it?

It suits america and its allies to keep other people ignorant and baby minded so that by making fool of them it could steel their toys.

Islam gives us best possible system for managing conflicts and land and resouces but it is because people in power do not want that this is why they rather let spread distorted version of islam because it works in their favour. This is what divide and rule all about.

You turn deen into religion=make beliefs and because none can prove make beliefs so they end up divided and in civil wars. This makes people weak so they can then be overpowered by the enemy who was all along playing the part from behind the screen to get them into this situation.

It will be good idea for people to watch videos by mr g a parwez to see what the real quranic message is.

Islam is at war with any system where some benefit at the expense of others. It is known as zero sum game. I win you lose.

Islam is none zero sum game ie mutual benefit system. I win and you also win.

Darwinism is fine for explanation of evolutionary mechanisms as natural processes but as an ideology for social structuring it is very dangerous because it deliberately sets strong against the weak and destroys humanity by taking away human concerns. We are humans ie animals with brains not just animals. So until we really become human beings our brains are useless.

Secularism was force for good when it broke the force of evil the religious control by means of theocracy. It is still good in the sense that it tells people to do better for this life as oppose to religion which wants people to live like dead in this world.

Islam is all about having a great life here as well as in hereafter. The condition for a chance of good next life is working hard to make this life great for others.

Mullahs deliberately misinterpreted the quran because kings wanted great life for themselves but not for their masses. Same is true for capitalists.

http://www.youtube.com/user/scandinavy

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ahmedozair+|&suggested_categories=22,27,10&page=1

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bazmtoronto's&suggested_categories=22,27&page=1

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aamirkhanbaba1947&aq=f


regards and all the best

 

[kugga]

One thing I have noticed is that people here are still thinking Islam is all about grooming one's personal traits and moral values while they don't understand that this is just a part of Islam... Islam is deen a way of life its not a religion like christianity which only talks about personal matters......
Quran the most authentic book of Islam talks about punishment of theft, adultery, Terrorists, and many other social things like marriage, divorce etc etc... It gives guidance of how to rule people, it gives guidance about how a nation should react in hours of difficulty.... It gives guidance to individuals as well as the whole society........ Marriage laws are not personal matter I guess, punishments of theft, terrorism etc etc are not personal matters at all and above all it talks about sood (interest or riba) which is the building block of modern world's economy....
Secularism contains some positve things that are also included in Islam but it also goes against Islam as well.. I think we can have a system based on Islamic principles and we'll call it secular 'cause secularism does not differ with Islam when it comes to equal rights of citizens.. its all about explanation of rights where Islam and secularism differ and we can have a discussion on that as well

 

[jetti]

thats only because they have the highest birth rate. what is the truth you are saying i dont want ot face. From your post I felt that islam will conquer the world by force and all others will be in dangeer. such a thing should not be allowed to happen.

 

[Janubaba]

thats only because they have the highest birth rate. what is the truth you are saying i dont want ot face. From your post I felt that islam will conquer the world by force and all others will be in dangeer. such a thing should not be allowed to happen.

Sir Islam is not growing fastest because of birth rate but it is growing fastest because thousands and thousands of people convert to Islam each year in the whole world only in USA 20000 people convert to Islam each year in UK France and Germany average is 5000 people each year that is how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

 

[jetti]

Sir Islam is not growing fastest because of birth rate but it is growing fastest because thousands and thousands of people convert to Islam each year in the whole world only in USA 20000 people convert to Islam each year in UK France and Germany average is 5000 people each year that is how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

the people who convert to islam are typically the uneducaated / poor people or women who marry muslims. normal people who are educaated are unlikely to convert in any country. please check and let meknow. thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion

 

[muse]

"

The meaning of perfection of religion (Ekmal e Din) is not that it contains everything under the sun, so that if we were unable to find a specific item in it, we could go off calling it imperfect. It is not perfection for religion to function as a substitute for science, technology, and human deliberation.

We have heard much in the way of sentences limited to two or three lines - and others offers lengthier expositions - in all of these pieces islam is supposed to be a solution to all problems (and therefore the association with Totalitarianism and Utopianism) - However, the understanding of Muslims, not Islamists, is that Islam is about Faith in God - in all these expositions here, we have yet to come to the idea of Faith and Islam -- Indeed Faith and Certitude are two ideas clearly at odds between Muslims and islamists.

 

[Vibs]

"

We have heard much in the way of sentences limited to two or three lines - and others offers lengthier expositions - in all of these pieces islam is supposed to be a solution to all problems (and therefore the association with Totalitarianism and Utopianism) - However, the understanding of Muslims, not Islamists, is that Islam is about Faith in God - in all these expositions here, we have yet to come to the idea of Faith and Islam -- Indeed Faith and Certitude are two ideas clearly at odds between Muslims and islamists.

Are you still in this thread??? I stopped responding when I realized the person debating here is probably a Soldier of Fortune playing teenager who hasn't seen real life yet.

 

[muse]

There's much left in it --- the poor policeman is just an appetizer - pay attention.