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VIEW: Success lies in secularism —Dr Irfan Zafar

Secularism is not possible in Pakistan. Only Islam binds the people of Pakistan. If there is no Islam in Pakistan, then ethnic nationalism will grow and that will break up Pakistan into Independnet Pashtunistan, Independent Balochistan, Independent Sindudesh. In other words, bharati dreams come true.

Secularism has failed in India too. its not about Pakistan or Islam. this concept of "Secularism" is flawed in itself which discriminates against only Muslims.

Period
 
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Dear muse, East Pakistan was lost because of mullaism because they tried to control pakistan instead of learning what islam was and how to implement it to make pakistan an exemplary state. The other enemy was ruling elite. Break up of pakistan was due to muslims for their lack of understanding of proper and not due to islam.

Islam is not what mullahs think islam is. if anyone is willing to debate the issue I do not mind particularly those friends who follow mullaism rather than the quran.

Mullahs have done one thing right ie kept information of islam intact but they never managed to put that information together to understand it properly and that is where they ignorantly or deliberately failed this ummah very badly as well as humanity at large.

regards and all the best.

This duality arises when religion is followed as a form of governance. Mullah's or priests or bishops, whoever they are will always be human and prone to human follies. Their interpretation of the religion and subsequent imposition of the same on common people is dangerous and can in many cases overpower the authority of civilian elected representatives.
 
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Secularism has failed in India too. its not about Pakistan or Islam. this concept of "Secularism" is flawed in itself which discriminates against only Muslims.

Period

I won't debate about the India part as the discussion will be endless and attract trolls.
How is secularism discriminatory against Muslims?
 
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In fact this is the substance of the Islamist position - they know Muslims abhor communism, so they dress communism up as if it were islam - but note the verbage, "system", "way of life" - all of it is totalitarianism, absolutist - this is why I differentiate between Muslims (Faith in God) and Islamist (Totalitarian ideologues in disguise)

And this is the substance of their insistence that Secularism be understood as Ladeeniyat - that is to say they wish to fool people and are successful with many, where as the only ideology bereft of Faith is their certitude of Ideology.
 
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Islam is the only solution Islam is a complete system Secularism has even started failing in Turkey Islam is the only solution and will be implemented if governments will not do it people on their own will rise up and implement it on their own

Even the above article proves your point bro :cheers:
 
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I have read the article and it looks like the writer is trying to prove that Islam also agrees with positive points of secularism... So if what is written above is requirement of secularism and same thing Islam can also provide then why not go for an Islamic system ?? :undecided:

If Islam has the same positve points as secularism they why secularism and not Islamic system ? ?
 
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But still, if this were to happen judging by the current Pakistani constitution, the whole relevance of the separate country would cease to exist.
 
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I have read the article and it looks like the writer is trying to prove that Islam also agrees with positive points of secularism... So if what is written above is requirement of secularism and same thing Islam can also provide then why not go for an Islamic system ?? :undecided:

If Islam has the same positve points as secularism they why secularism and not Islamic system ? ?

The writer is trying to fool himself and others Islamic System is the only solution and only system for the world and it will be implemented very soon
 
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There is no point arguing with Janubaba and the likes.... There is no scope of any fruitful DISCUSSION if you have made up your mind....

I follow religion X
You follow religion Y
He follows religion Z

X=Y=Z .... Just live and let live...

Choosing and practicing a religion shud and will always be a personal choice...
 
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But still, if this were to happen judging by the current Pakistani constitution, the whole relevance of the separate country would cease to exist.


That's already been decided - whether some agree or disagree with 47 - 47 is reality, nothing is going to change that .
 
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Mughal Sahab:

I have an issue with the "Divine version of Islam" -- It's the wording -- after all are we "divine" or human beings? If human, then how "Divine"?

I know what you are getting at - I simply wish to plug any holes the worms and rats can creep in from.

Dear muse, it is true we are all human beings but we cannot be independent of God and humanity. A world without moral values in the name of God and humanity is nothing less than lawless jungle wherein people in position of power are the masters who can do whatever they like with rest as their slaves.

Islam that is based upon proper understanding of the quran gives us firmly established foundation to build our world upon. All we need to do is work together to see what the quran actually says and not what mullahs want us to see in the quran. I wish there were some mullahs here to defend their version of islam and that this forum allowed an open debate on what islam really is. In no time it will become obvious that mullas are memorisers of islamic information but not thinkers who actually understand islam. Their islam is simply put just a set of make beliefs and ritualism with some barbaric laws which they call shariah. Islam is very different from what they say it is.

If you pick up any translation of the quran or interpretation you will see a lot of problems with each of them from start to finish. Those problems that we find in these things are absent in the actual quranic text. One wonders whether mullahs are ignorant people or are they misinterpreting the quran deliberately?

If you like we can have a look at surah al fatiah as to what it is all about. It is not Lords prayer but an agreement between God and man. The rest of the quran is based upon this agreement. In short this surah provides us with overall framework within which the quran is supposed to be interpreted. In short mullahs turned the quran into a magical and mythical children's fairy tale due to which the quran looks like a senseless jumble of all sorts put together in a silly way. No wonder that nonmuslims do not let us open our mouths.

Allah is made to look like a very angry village child hell bent on taking revenge on his toys who wants peoples' heads chopped off over any little thing and hell is just his way of cooking and roasting people and having fun. If this was really islam no one would want to have anything to do with it.

It is just that absolute power corrupts absolutely and that is what muslim kings and sultans and amir have been doing, being corrupt themselves have been trying their bnest to corrupt islam so that they could thereby justify their own life style that way and could look respsctable in the eyes of their foolish slaves.

The power muslims kings have had for centuries could they not build places for education to lead humanity? They instead decided to built grand masjids and placed therein mullahs of their choice to brain wash masses into their slaves. Islam came to get man out of slavery of man. In islam none is master and none is slaves for all are bound in brotherhood of humanity yet slave trade was continued by muslim rulers till 20th century in the name of islam. It is time we questioned our make beliefs and corrected ourselves or we have no future at all. We were given the divine message to learn it ourselves and be a beacon of good humanity for ret of mankind. Unfortunately we have lost our own way so how we are going to guide others?

Therefore it is time to retrace our steps to see where we went off the right track and start all over again if we wish to be good human beings and an example of goodness for others..

regards and all the best.
 
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There is no point arguing with Janubaba and the likes.... There is no scope of any fruitful DISCUSSION if you have made up your mind....

I follow religion X
You follow religion Y
He follows religion Z

X=Y=Z .... Just live and let live...

Choosing and practicing a religion shud and will always be a personal choice...

Sir ALLAH has said clearly in the Quran he has only sent ISLAM as the deen to follow and its system to be established in the whole world
 
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There is no point arguing with Janubaba and the likes.... There is no scope of any fruitful DISCUSSION if you have made up your mind....

I follow religion X
You follow religion Y
He follows religion Z

X=Y=Z .... Just live and let live...

Choosing and practicing a religion shud and will always be a personal choice...

Two words: Police Informant, Agent provacateur
 
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You may be right in your opinion but, your answer seems flawed and wrong to me personally ... I do not follow ISLAM, so what ever is said in quran will never appeal to me or others like me.. And forcing people to follow things which they dont believe in will always lead to chaos...
Secularism is the ONLY way forward..
 
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^^ Muse dude... I didnt fully get what you were trying to imply in your post....
Just to clarify things...
I mean no disrespect to any religion or way of life, nor i am saying that one is good and the other is bad...
Just giving my opinion here.....
 
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