US threatens sanctions over Iran gas deal

[lem34]

No point welcoming sanctions - we have to have a better track than this - If China or Russia or both become a part of this project, we can pretty much disregard the threat of sanctions, however, without offering the Russian or the Chinese greater concessions in Balouchistan and offhshore, Pakistan is not likely to bring these players over to it's side.

At the same time, the West has now established a precedence in the Libyan case, will they use it in balouchistan? I don't think so, Pakistan is not Libya or any arbi tyranny.

wow muse you are making sense again lol

 

[muse]

wow muse you are making sense again lol

A couple of heartless heathens robbed me

 

[lem34]

Who is USA to dictate in our regional and internal matters. It about time the US role in playing regional differences be culled. US is the sole cause of disunity in Asia. Why should Pakstan persue an expensive project like TAPI?? So a pro-American government in Afghanistan could be at our throat anytime by cutting our gas??? Remember the sole intention of USA behind supporting taliban and then culling them as well was the TAPI project. And the same project is the sole reason of Afghanistan invasion by US.

Who is USA to interfere and dictate the relations and future of Asia?

self delete

 

[longbrained]

No point welcoming sanctions - we have to have a better track than this - If China or Russia or both become a part of this project, we can pretty much disregard the threat of sanctions, however, without offering the Russian or the Chinese greater concessions in Balouchistan and offshore, Pakistan is not likely to bring these players over to it's side.

At the same time, the West has now established a precedence in the Libyan case, will they use it in Balouchistan? I don't think so, Pakistan is not Libya or any arbi tyranny.

Maybe you are right and it is certainly worth a try. But the history shows that Russia is not a reliable ally specially not for Pakistan. Even China left Iran's oil fields and many projects under US pressure. So to completely depend on these two nations would like we are replacing US with China and Russia. Not really a good proposition. I admit there is an important role for diplomacy but at the end of the day Pakistan should be ready for anything as a sovereign nation.

 

[muse]

I agree but somewhere along the line, we have to find a mechanism to accomplish our goals without it hurting us

 

[longbrained]

I agree but somewhere along the line, we have to find a mechanism to accomplish our goals without it hurting us

Yeah, if it is possible then well and good. That is what we want. We want to be friends with US too. But if not possible then we can not sacrifice ourselves and our children's future for some other guy's benefit. As for sanctions, I do not think they are going to hurt as much as people fear and their effects are going to be very transient. Their options to sanction Pakistan are limited. Lets look at how they can sanction Pakistan, comparing how they sanctioned Iraq or Iran.
1- They can freeze Pakistani assets abroad. Good lord, Pakistan does not have much assets to begin with. The most valuable is perhaps the Roosevelt hotel in New York. But there are alot of foreign companies which have assets in Pakistan and also Pakistan has debts to tune of over 59 billion dollars. In retaliation Pakistan can freeze those. Simple. They will lose.

2- They can freeze assets of Pakistani leaders abroad. Again not much concern there, I think.

3- They can stop selling some equipment to Pakistan. But with a little hard work these can be manufactured locally. Pakistan is not Iraq that could not manufacture even its medicines. Through there might be some things Pakistan can not produce but these can be bought from black market. The price is going to be higher but this can be adjusted by removing custom duty on those items. It is very difficult to sanction a nation of 200 million people with big borders.

4- The only effective sanction they have is military equipment sanction. Again without a UN security council sanction, these will be not effective since Pakistan will buy from other countries like China. But even if at extreme case scenario as they did with Iran they get such a resolution, still it will have no effect. The last time they sanctioned Pakistan, it developed its missile program which was very successful. Since they lifted sanctions, there has not been much development in that sector. If new sanctions come this time, surely Pakistan can develop intercontinental missiles. Again Pakistan will win.

5- They can sanction refined fuel just like they did with Iran. Again this is not effective, since Pakistan refines its own fuel. And crude can not be sanctioned since Iran is next door.

So sanctions are probably just talk to scare Pakistan. Already Turkey and Switzerland are buying Iranian gas. So even legal precedence is in our favor.

 

[jha]

^^^Thats a rather generalized view of effect of sanctions...

 

[longbrained]

^^^Thats a rather generalized view of effect of sanctions...

Yeah, but that is true and simple.

 

[muse]

Longbrained

What about the effect on Private Pakistanis and their business and property? I think these will be very painful, especially for those in the West.

What really matters is how Pakistan can respond to sanctions - As none of these arbi types will offer any diplomatic and especially economic policy support, this wil place Pakistan in a rather precarious position, in the sense that Pakistan will not be organize a response that US policy makers will be able to take note of.

 

[lem34]

Longbrained

What about the effect on Private Pakistanis and their business and property? I think these will be very painful, especially for those in the West.

What really matters is how Pakistan can respond to sanctions - As none of these arbi types will offer any diplomatic and especially economic policy support, this wil place Pakistan in a rather precarious position, in the sense that Pakistan will not be organize a response that US policy makers will be able to take note of.

how would pakistanis in west be effected. Most of us have european/US nationality and as in our case a few house in pakistan. But you know muse sanctions make some more resliant. I mean if we had not had sanctions in the 90s would we have jf17s al khalids etc the following decade i know its not cutting edge but pakistan survived. I also think that some countries would deal with us so the worry is really just the west

 

[muse]

I agree that sanctions on the Pakistan armed forces made them more resilient - I also agree that Iran is stronger because of Sanctions - -- but does that mean Pakistan will be stronger? I don't think so - my reasons for holding this view is that Pakistan's politicians and political parties, are not of the caliber that could deliver - in fact the way Pakistan is organized serves to hinder it's ability to take advantage of sanctions --- In the case of Iran, there was oil sales, in the case of Pakistan, there is the ever present begging bowl

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Muse, instead of all the hatred against everything, you know what I mean--Why do not you stand up and take the charge?
If you are so concerned about Pakistan, why do not you become Pakistani Ana Hazare?

That would be far more productive than posting online, no?

 

[muse]

Saad

Instead of wasting your time here why don't you take a stand on 7th ave?

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Because I do not criticize as much as you. You are an example and an exception for me.

Please take the charge.

Will you contribute to that or will just be an online warrior?

 

[lem34]

I agree that sanctions on the Pakistan armed forces made them more resilient - I also agree that Iran is stronger because of Sanctions - -- but does that mean Pakistan will be stronger? I don't think so - my reasons for holding this view is that Pakistan's politicians and political parties, are not of the caliber that could deliver - in fact the way Pakistan is organized serves to hinder it's ability to take advantage of sanctions --- In the case of Iran, there was oil sales, in the case of Pakistan, there is the ever present begging bowl

well say it we need a revolution and about 2000 people in pakistan starting from zardari to be eliminated. We need to ask the french if they could lend us some guillotines or ask the english to give us some roundheads etc A dictator or maybe a committee for a period lol