US spells out terms of engagement with Pakistan

[Pakistansdefender]

You are incorrect. Might is not Right.

Being Right is true Might.

Well "being right is true might" may sounds cool. It may even work in stories and novels.
The world is a really cruel place...
There is only one law and the might make it and might is always right even when it is wrong.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Well "being right is true might" may sounds cool. It may even work in stories and novels.
The world is a really cruel place...
There is only one law and the might make it and might is always right even when it is wrong.

We don't live in the law of jungle. There are rules.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the fees , charged have to be paid it is Bill / Invoice , and not Aid

 

[Pakistansdefender]

We don't live in the law of jungle. There are rules.

Rules are for the week.
While the might crush them beneath their feet.
Does anyone held US accountable for stealing oil from IRAQ?
does anybody blamed US for handing over the Iraq war to mercenaries like Eric prince, killing millions and millions of innocent people.
Can anybody tell that the picture showes to the USA senate to Justify the attack on Iraq is actually a picture from some 3rd grade Hollywood movie.
Can anybody even dare ask isreal, that why not they let handfuls of Palestinians that are left, in peace. Why they have to kill them every other day. Even they are strong and they are might, what is the reason of killing the Palestinians but they do it because they are might.
Laws are only made for weak nations like us.
Not for nations like USA or isreal or Europe or their darling country.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/lakhpati-baba.575867/

We need some professional consultant with past experience

 

[MultaniGuy]

Rules are for the week.
While the might crush them beneath their feet.
Does anyone held US accountable for stealing oil from IRAQ?
does anybody blamed US for handing over the Iraq war to mercenaries like Eric prince, killing millions and millions of innocent people.
Can anybody tell that the picture showes to the USA senate to Justify the attack on Iraq is actually a picture from some 3rd grade Hollywood movie.
Can anybody even dare ask isreal, that why not they let handfuls of Palestinians that are left, in peace. Why they have to kill them every other day. Even they are strong and they are might, what is the reason of killing the Palestinians but they do it because they are might.
Laws are only made for weak nations like us.
Not for nations like USA or isreal or Europe or their darling country.

Maybe. Even the UNSC is messed up.

 

[Meengla]

This is what it's al about. United States policy in South Asia even as far back as 1960s has been largely determined by the China factor. America wants -

• India to focus on being a bulwark against China and Pakistan to support India in that effort instead of hindering it. This practically means it requires Pakistan to accept Indian hegemony in South Asia and give India free hand in Afghanistan.
• In that sense Pakistan is paying the price for US displeasure thanks the China Factor. We have reached critical point in history. China must step forward and insure Pakistan for the cost it is bearing thanks to the China Factor.
• China needs to step up and offer substantive help to offset the costs for the China Factor. This should be extra grants, investment and preferential trade access.
• If China does not step up in effect Pakistan is taking punishment thanks to China without Beijing compensating which makes the Sino/Pak relationship a expensive proposition.

Yes, it's CHINA, CHINA and CHINA! Much like the Soviet threat was exaggerated for 70+ years, now it's China's threat. The war machine in Washington DC has to find a reason to sustain itself. If you live in America--especially in the American South--the country is like Pakistan's 'Chakwaal' region: Full of 'veterans'; seems like every 3rd household has them. And it ain't all about 'patriotism'. It's mostly about how to get a chunk of tax payers' moneys while coming out alive.

But I digress...

Pakistanis are loyal, perhaps too loyal, and simplistic people. Even dumping the Talibans in 2001 was not easy and it required C. Powell (and eventually GW Bush) to give public assurance to 'accommodate Moderate Talibans'. The same Talibans who didn't recognize the Durand Line between 1996-2001 AND who had artillery exchanges with Pakistan Army during those years. So much so for the Talibans being Pakistan's proxies.

China must realize that Pakistanis are being punished for a level of loyalty/friendship which is a big strain on Pakistan. Unlike India, which back-stabbed Iran a few years ago when some vote about Iran's nuclear program was required--Pakistanis are going to take the blows from Washington for China. China should make it easier to take the blows. HONOR does count even now--even during the mantra of 'there are no permanent friends but only permanent interests'.

PS. There's a reason India has no real friends despite India's huge international economic clout while Pakistan does--at least far better than India on that score.

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

As old as they Get, "Terror and Funds" offered through International channels as the statements reiterates again and again.
Pakistan should make sure we distant from Afghanistan asap as its has become no-mans-land but the back ground garbage bin for the world powers like US, who use it as their training ground to test and train their Defense industry's toys. For that they need mice to chase as we cant afford those mice to get shelter in our house.
The Internet and social media has become as favorable for such mice to be benefit as one can understand, and through these two decades US has learnt as much as possible about Pakistan as we should like to hate under special Opps. And when we has all hope with CPEC and china its worst thing that can happen to Pakistan if Indian IT expertise help Afghan mice get take advantage of this.
More in this, ready comments
*https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/9261775/
*https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/10031628/
*https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/9984464/
*https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/9966907/
*https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/9818328/
*https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/9767147/

 

[YeBeWarned]

nothing significant come out of this, some threats and few offers which will change as soon as US delegation stop in New Delhi . Pakistan should clear one thing on Americans that now we have no Influence of Afghan Taliban, All the leadership that once have a soft Spot for Pakistan is either dead or assassinated by Americans . IK will hold his decade long narrative of leave Afghanistan for peace but we all know Americans are not for Peace they have more sinister intentions .

American should understand this that there is no winning in Afghanistan , unless you resort to a full earth scotch Policy and nuke the Sh!t out of Afghanistan . eventually USA will leave Afghanistan and within months it will fall under Taliban or any other Religious Group .

 

[Meengla]

When benjamin netanyahu delivers a speech in-front of Congress and receives a standing ovation emotions plays as much a part as any-other logical prowess.

The only emotion is about self-survival: Most American Congressmen/Senators know the power of 'The Lobby' which can boot out all but most secure incumbents. It HAS happened before. So why bother taking a 'moral' stand? But the 20% of American Evangelicals are a different breed: They are the Talibans with suits n ties, though I think Talibans are still far more principled than the Evangelical threat to the world peace. A different topic...

You are absolutely correct. But Pakistan would have become the next North Korea if we hadn't complied to the US demands...

• Imagine US as the sole superpower in 2001... no one would have dared to stand in its way back then
• Russia was a collapsed empire with a dwindling economy, they could barely sustain themselves. Besides, we could not trust them due to obvious reasons: 1) we fought them just a decade ago, 2) they were, and still are very close to India.
• China wasn't as influential or powerful as it is today, so I highly doubt they would have stood with Pakistan, especially, after 9/11 mass hysteria and an international consensus on Afghan war...
• Pakistan would have been branded as "terrorist supporter" and a rogue state... all ties cut, all aids withdrawn... we were a new nuclear power, but without the missile capabilities... so, all they had to do, was send a naval fleet into the Arabia ocean, and you can imagine where it would have gone from there... India, our neighbor, would have been more than happy to extend help...

So, what happened post-9/11 was unfortunate, but inevitable... In my view, Pakistan's biggest geopolitical blunders were made later, e.g., allowing Drone Strikes, OBL operation (everyone knows CIA couldn't have done it alone... plus, where is the body??) etc. We allowed Americans to gain too much influence over us... blackwater and CIA used to operate openly, and gave them military basis, etc., while USA was openly supporting anti-Pakistani elements in Afghanistan (India included).

Top post.
@Indus Pakistan is a very respectable member here. But his simplicity about Pakistan's options post 9/11 are absolutely amazing!! Musharraf didn't just fold after one phone calls. He managed to get some concessions out when Pakistan was in NO POSITION to ask for anything. Do we forget the state of Pakistan's economy in 2001? Do we forget that the US targeting of OBL in 1998? Do we forget the USS Cole bombing? Do we forget Al Qaida bombing US embassies in Africa while hiding inside Taliban's protection? Do we forget that Pakistan was on Terror Watch List in late 1990's? Do we forget....

In my opinion, had it been Trump as POTUS on 9/11 then Pakistan would have been bombed to the Stone Age then. But the G.W Bush was a different kind of a POTUS and the Pentagon was then very much pro Pakistan.

It really is a different topic to discuss Pakistan's options after 9/11. But it makes me sick to see some sanctimonious armchair generals dragging Pakistan the path of Saddam's Iraq or Qaddafi's Libya!! Pakistanis are far smarter that that and Indians, of all people, know that.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Only way to get out of U.S. created narrative is by taking initiative. Pakistan will have to create its own narrative or basically just follow the U.S. one... One of the ways to avoid getting sucked into a U.S. narrative is by keeping yourself at a distance... do not let yourself bogged down... own your narrative!

 

[xyxmt]

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

The only emotion is about self-survival: Most American Congressmen/Senators know the power of 'The Lobby' which can boot out all but most secure incumbents. It HAS happened before. So why bother taking a 'moral' stand? But the 20% of American Evangelicals are a different breed: They are the Talibans with suits n ties, though I think Talibans are still far more principled than the Evangelical threat to the world peace. A different topic...



Top post.
@Indus Pakistan is a very respectable member here. But his simplicity about Pakistan's options post 9/11 are absolutely amazing!! Musharraf didn't just fold after one phone calls. He managed to get some concessions out when Pakistan was in NO POSITION to ask for anything. Do we forget the state of Pakistan's economy in 2001? Do we forget that the US targeting of OBL in 1998? Do we forget the USS Cole bombing? Do we forget Al Qaida bombing US embassies in Africa while hiding inside Taliban's protection? Do we forget that Pakistan was on Terror Watch List in late 1990's? Do we forget....

In my opinion, had it been Trump as POTUS on 9/11 then Pakistan would have been bombed to the Stone Age then. But the G.W Bush was a different kind of a POTUS and the Pentagon was then very much pro Pakistan.

It really is a different topic to discuss Pakistan's options after 9/11. But it makes me sick to see some sanctimonious armchair generals dragging Pakistan the path of Saddam's Iraq or Qaddafi's Libya!! Pakistanis are far smarter that that and Indians, of all people, know that.

There was a strategic purpose back in 01' but that has long since become a liability. At this point Afghanistan is an egg on face and let's face it the ego of once a superpower. Since then Russia has found it's feet and China has grown it's feet. U.S. needed a stakeholder and that was India which has been raised economically massively but still didn't grow a pair and hold it's own. Indian failure in becoming a counterweight to China or even to lesser extent tame Pakistan have been massive failures. Trump is a bluff artist... he wouldn't have done anything different. Though, Pakistan played as well as it could not really knowing the drivers behind the push in 01 ... you cannot call Musharraf a success either after all it was his failure that caused so much loss of life in Pakistan. He thought he could contain all while simultaneously pushing Pakistan deeper in hole it finds itself in today. Right now it is time to reflect, U.S. again wants India to grow a pair and become a stakeholder in Afghanistan so U.S. can save face... there are no two ways about it! Pakistan will have secure it's own backyard. Afghanistan has no other future it is a joined at the hip with Pakistan... British played the game only to keep a buffer with Russia, today Pakistan needs that border to do trade with central Asia and beyond. All roads must lead to Islamabad if Pakistan is to secure this for it's future! India will find keeping it's union together by the day as it's many nations start realizing themselves already Sikhs are agitated central India will have tough time just keeping its land mass together in coming decades, Maratha nationhood is also awakening as history is coming to the fore. Now, by looking at this picture there isn't much choice for U.S. as for the first time the dollar is going only so far...

 

[MultaniGuy]

There was a strategic purpose back in 01' but that has long since become a liability. At this point Afghanistan is an egg on face and let's face it the ego of once a superpower. Since then Russia has found it's feet and China has grown it's feet. U.S. needed a stakeholder and that was India which has been raised economically massively but still didn't grow a pair and hold it's own. Indian failure in becoming a counterweight to China or even to lesser extent tame Pakistan have been massive failures. Trump is a bluff artist... he wouldn't have done anything different. Though, Pakistan played as well as it could not really knowing the drivers behind the push in 01 ... you cannot call Musharraf a success either after all it was his failure that caused so much loss of life in Pakistan. He thought he could contain all while simultaneously pushing Pakistan deeper in hole it finds itself in today. Right now it is time to reflect, U.S. again wants India to grow a pair and become a stakeholder in Afghanistan so U.S. can save face... there are no two ways about it! Pakistan will have secure it's own backyard. Afghanistan has no other future it is a joined at the hip with Pakistan... British played the game only to keep a buffer with Russia, today Pakistan needs that border to do trade with central Asia and beyond. All roads must lead to Islamabad if Pakistan is to secure this for it's future! India will find keeping it's union together by the day as it's many nations start realizing themselves already Sikhs are agitated central India will have tough time just keeping its land mass together in coming decades, Maratha nationhood is also awakening as history is coming to the fore. Now, by looking at this picture there isn't much choice for U.S. as for the first time the dollar is going only so far...

Pakistan will never accept Indian involvement in Afghanistan.

Thats the red line.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

All matters in this Alem-I Hikmet is tied to time!!! And, TIME isnn't without its MASTER!!!!

This time Pak can sit it out!! It's the USA which is in a hurry, and she is angry!!! Satan messes up with the staffs done in haste!!! And, whoever stands up in anger sits down in loss!!!!

Very poignant!