US Congress stalls F-16 sale to Pakistan

[mingle]

That is not even the point bro. Time has come to move on and say farewell to F-16s. It might be normal for the Americans to constantly doubt and humiliate countries they term "allies" in their congress. We are used to that and according to some here we shouldn't even question the American way of dealing.

More importantly, we need to grow a spine and opt for something else now. The money we are going to dole out of our own pockets would be more wisely spent on something more reliable and frankly something better. Nothing to be angry about. It is more about making a logical and sane choice instead of throwing away taxpayers money.

U got a good point it might be costly to procure new platform but for future we should go for it F16 is not future or end of the world .Russian or European options r on table .

Good. I have said this a million times. It is time to opt for something different. This is the right time. A blessing in disguise. Hopefully this will force PAF to finally say bye bye to the F-16.

EF 2000 or sukhoi family we have enough romance with them 80 copies r more than enough .

1) This isn't any propaganda. The Congress did stop this and sent notice of sort of show cause to the Obama administration. Now the administration and some lobby from Pakistan can push it through. Nothing out of the ordinary.

3) You and other people don't get it. You guys have very narrow mentality. Really? 8 or 24 or 32 F-16's worth a few billion can change the American law makers sentiment? What world do you live in? Do you have any idea how many HUNDREDS of billions the US would make, if it opened up the sale of F-22 to its allies like Japan, the UK, Australia, etc???? Did we do that? HELL NO!!!! So what's a big deal for 20-40 F-16's? NONE, ZERO, ZILCH!!

If these F-16's are ever issued, these will be due to the relationship with Pakistan. Not the money. If you think "money" or a "few jobs" matter to the US government when it comes to her interests and strategy.....you are simply acting like a fool. The same F-16's can be purchased by a dozen other countries if the US really wanted to do it outside of Pakistan and REALLY needed a few jobs to remain working. You guys write so much without logic that it becomes a headache to even read the posts!

I beleive deal wil go through Economics plus goodwill towards Pak .it bussiness yes Americans do care about it its not fortworth only alot sub systems .Pak only interested in these jets it Economical but i am guy from day one 80 copies r good enogh yes its good plane but its getting behind now Pak should swalow a pill look for Russian or European option i dont think after this little Bull by Dona Barker Airforce will think about F16 as future .

 

[Viper0011.]

I beleive deal wil go through Economics plus goodwill towards Pak .it bussiness yes Americans do care about it its not fortworth only alot sub systems .Pak only interested in these jets it Economical but i am guy from day one 80 copies r good enogh yes its good plane but its getting behind now Pak should swalow a pill look for Russian or European option i dont think after this little Bull by Dona Barker Airforce will think about F16 as future .

Is that true? Pakistan is ONLY interested in F-16's because they are "economical"? JF-17 and FC-20 are a LOT more economical, so why not use those and sell all existing F-16's and don't order more? I know for a fact it won't hurt our jobs . Run this proposal by the PAF pilots and the leadership and you might get beat-up on the spot for saying crap like this!!

Its the combat proven capability and the effectiveness of this platform that's proven it more than worthwhile for the PAF. In 40 years, this jet is one of the handful which has been modrnized SO MUCH and combat proven so much that even with SU-30's and Rafale's of TODAY, this jet can go head-on. Talk about the capability. If you don't know something, don't write crap at the least.

By the way, the senator's last name is incorrect .

@MastanKhan : Any further advise for the gentlemen on the above post? I know you totally know why the PAF loves the F-16!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Is that true? Pakistan is ONLY interested in F-16's because they are "economical"? JF-17 and FC-20 are a LOT more economical, so why not use those and sell all existing F-16's and don't order more? I know for a fact it won't hurt our jobs . Run this proposal by the PAF pilots and the leadership and you might get beat-up on the spot for saying crap like this!!

Its the combat proven capability and the effectiveness of this platform that's proven it more than worthwhile for the PAF. In 40 years, this jet is one of the handful which has been modrnized SO MUCH and combat proven so much that even with SU-30's and Rafale's of TODAY, this jet can go head-on. Talk about the capability. If you don't know something, don't write crap at the least.

By the way, the senator's last name is incorrect .

@MastanKhan : Any further advise for the gentlemen on the above post? I know you totally know why the PAF loves the F-16!!

Hi,

I think that the kids are just getting unhappy about the F16 issue---. And even though the paf pilots love this aircraft for what it can do---they need to go somewhere else to meet their needs.

There is another problem with the paf---they are at a total loss of direction without the F16---. The baby needs to be weened away from mothers breast---they need to find a new teat to suckle on.

See---in the 90's---pakistan air force was under extreme duress due to sanctions---they had nothing to fight a war with during Kargil---they then proceeded to get the F7PG after much insistant from the chinese---.

To their surprise---paf found the F7PG to be much more capable aircraft than they thought or assessed that it was.

And as you mentioned in another post---it is time to go for the J10 C with aesa.

 

[HAIDER]

Was US-Pakistan F-16 Deal Stopped? Congress Acts Over Fears Of Civilian Casualties

A potential sale of F-16 jets to Pakistan is being delayed in the Republican-held Congress, which could lead to diplomatic clashes between Washington and Islamabad. While the initial deal was approved by the foreign-military-sales arm of the Pentagon and the White House last year, pro-Indian U.S. representatives are alleged to have spearheaded a campaign to stop the sale, fearing that the jets could be used against civilians.

"Congress is well aware of the fact that it is gravely discommoding Pakistan, but has no qualms about that," Brian Coughley, the former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, told Defense News Tuesday. "The arrangement for supply of the eight aircraft, as proposed, however, is not dead, but it will require a great deal of work by the administration to revive it — and the White House might not be keen on that."

It was previously reported by the English-language newspaper Dawn Tuesday that Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., had questioned what Pakistan would need the F-16s for, suggesting that they could be used against civilians.
“I don’t know how an F-16, with all of its hardware on there for combat, can be used for humanitarian aid. If they were buying C-130s, I could see those being used for humanitarian aid,” said Poe, whose comments were echoed by Rohrabacher, who said Pakistan would use the military hardware against “their own people.”

Both members are part of a growing pro-Indian lobbying group on Capitol Hill that Dawn contends is now second only to its pro-Israel counterpart in terms of clout, and opposes all military sales to Pakistan.

The pro-Indian lobbying group campaigns predominately on behalf of New Delhi's business and political concerns in Washington but more recently has shifted to opposing actions on the Hill that favor Pakistan. The group's most recent move to stop Pakistan from gaining the jets is rooted primarily in the decades-old violent conflict between Islamabad and New Delhi over the disputed border region of Kashmir, which both countries have claimed since 1947.

While the F-16 sale could still go through, it’s unlikely that the White House will fight Congress over it, claimed Claude Rakisits, a nonresident senior fellow the Atlantic Council's South Asia Center.

"The sale of the F-16s is not looking promising," Rakisits said. "And if the sale of the F-16s has now effectively stalled in a Senate dominated by the generally Pakistan-friendly Republican Party, I would have thought that such a sale to go ahead in a possible Democratic-majority Senate following the 2016 congressional elections would be even more unlikely."
Was US-Pakistan F-16 Deal Stopped? Congress Acts Over Fears Of Civilian Casualties

 

[Quwa]

Was US-Pakistan F-16 Deal Stopped? Congress Acts Over Fears Of Civilian Casualties

A potential sale of F-16 jets to Pakistan is being delayed in the Republican-held Congress, which could lead to diplomatic clashes between Washington and Islamabad. While the initial deal was approved by the foreign-military-sales arm of the Pentagon and the White House last year, pro-Indian U.S. representatives are alleged to have spearheaded a campaign to stop the sale, fearing that the jets could be used against civilians.

"Congress is well aware of the fact that it is gravely discommoding Pakistan, but has no qualms about that," Brian Coughley, the former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, told Defense News Tuesday. "The arrangement for supply of the eight aircraft, as proposed, however, is not dead, but it will require a great deal of work by the administration to revive it — and the White House might not be keen on that."

It was previously reported by the English-language newspaper Dawn Tuesday that Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., had questioned what Pakistan would need the F-16s for, suggesting that they could be used against civilians.
“I don’t know how an F-16, with all of its hardware on there for combat, can be used for humanitarian aid. If they were buying C-130s, I could see those being used for humanitarian aid,” said Poe, whose comments were echoed by Rohrabacher, who said Pakistan would use the military hardware against “their own people.”

Both members are part of a growing pro-Indian lobbying group on Capitol Hill that Dawn contends is now second only to its pro-Israel counterpart in terms of clout, and opposes all military sales to Pakistan.

The pro-Indian lobbying group campaigns predominately on behalf of New Delhi's business and political concerns in Washington but more recently has shifted to opposing actions on the Hill that favor Pakistan. The group's most recent move to stop Pakistan from gaining the jets is rooted primarily in the decades-old violent conflict between Islamabad and New Delhi over the disputed border region of Kashmir, which both countries have claimed since 1947.

While the F-16 sale could still go through, it’s unlikely that the White House will fight Congress over it, claimed Claude Rakisits, a nonresident senior fellow the Atlantic Council's South Asia Center.

"The sale of the F-16s is not looking promising," Rakisits said. "And if the sale of the F-16s has now effectively stalled in a Senate dominated by the generally Pakistan-friendly Republican Party, I would have thought that such a sale to go ahead in a possible Democratic-majority Senate following the 2016 congressional elections would be even more unlikely."
Was US-Pakistan F-16 Deal Stopped? Congress Acts Over Fears Of Civilian Casualties

Sure, let's see what they say if the Army and Air Force pull out of FATA, on the count of "completely avoiding civilian casualties." Better yet, where were these clowns when Israel was dropping bombs on Gaza?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Quite a shambolic behavior and non support against Terrorism after that was done to clean up the region by our forces

 

[batmannow]

Sure, let's see what they say if the Army and Air Force pull out of FATA, on the count of "completely avoiding civilian casualties." Better yet, where were these clowns when Israel was dropping bombs on Gaza?

Pakistan among states that will face turmoil for decades: Obama - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Its his last of addreses , I guess !

They won't say much if you come out of FATA , now for them its your own problem ?
They were succsesfull to rescue their puppet called OBL & that's made them look like heros & that's it ?
Actually they don't like much PAF going after TTP ,which is dog with a task to attack & create the window of opportunity for the so called special forces to carry out another legendary rescue by grabbing Pakistani +Islamic nukes ?
No they won't be happy about it , few of uninformed generals of their command may give few statements on the Pakistani efforts against terrorism but stupids in Pentagon/CIA they still want to go green their plans , after destroying Libya ,Afghanistan ,Iraq , egypt , sirya ?
they want to crush Pakistan , Iran , turkey with their agenda of instant kaos after which , in their stupid dreams they will dance over whole world ?
So they won't let Pakistan , be stronger any way ?
Specially air force , which has the capability to act against any aggerision externally or internally ?
They made this deal as a move on the chess board they think setted out for Pakistan?
I'm really amazed that , no one here has mentioned any thing about our so called "TACTICAL NUCLEAR DIVICES " which been demanded from us , privately in the meetings with the puppet political rulers , who are softly working on the plan given by their God fathers in pentagon ?
We need to come out of that fake need of the dam -F-16s & should swing the ball into other direction fast .

Hi,

I think that the kids are just getting unhappy about the F16 issue---. And even though the paf pilots love this aircraft for what it can do---they need to go somewhere else to meet their needs.

There is another problem with the paf---they are at a total loss of direction without the F16---. The baby needs to be weened away from mothers breast---they need to find a new teat to suckle on.

See---in the 90's---pakistan air force was under extreme duress due to sanctions---they had nothing to fight a war with during Kargil---they then proceeded to get the F7PG after much insistant from the chinese---.

To their surprise---paf found the F7PG to be much more capable aircraft than they thought or assessed that it was.

And as you mentioned in another post---it is time to go for the J10 C with aesa.

Sir ,
Always on your 4°clock , problem is the perception , our military establishment has played the diplomatic game perfectly but its our traitor political leadership trying their best to let us grounded forever ?
Americans with the agreement of Nawaz Sharif , played their best shot , announcing the deal then vetoing it from their dam congress ?
Belive me , if our air chief been found visiting bejing or massow & having few photo sessions on the newest of war machines there , the same stupid Congress will call back their shyti decsion .
But we really need to put an end to this stupid issue forever , NO MORE F-16s & thats it !
Its enough what we have , now we need some thing , likes of $U*35 , J*20 , J-16s & just go ahead , so our dam military capability could come out of american Congress , senate or white house hostege hole ?

 

[saadee]

ACM mentioned in his speech that we are getting these fighter jets, so we can take some load of from the existing fleet so which part these congress people didn't get

 

[Cool_Soldier]

We already in discussion with Russia and China regarding alternative war planes. PAF wont with draw from getting F16 but if approval is given then we have left no choice but to get SU-35 and for for naval role we at least need 24 J 16D.

 

[LeGenD]

Good. I have said this a million times. It is time to opt for something different. This is the right time. A blessing in disguise. Hopefully this will force PAF to finally say bye bye to the F-16.

Just because some senators have negative opinion about Pakistan, doesn't implies that we should say goodbye to the US as a whole.

F-16 is a continuously evolving and battle-proven platform. JF-17 Thunder doesn't compares, don't take its hype too seriously. Locally manufactured products are always glorified.

Another ground reality is that Pakistan doesn't have purchasing power of such magnitude that countries are lining-up to sell us their latest Jet Fighters like they do for India. Claims about Russia offering us SU-35 are hogwosh until the purchase contract is signed. Even China will not sell us its top-of-the-line Jet Fighters without some major terms and conditions.

Bro, we should be realistic and thankful to those nations who are willing to sell us weapons at present.

 

[帅的一匹]

after rise of china we are not worry abut US equipment ban. if it was 2000 or 90s i was crying river but today i am laughing we have all weather ally next door and they are capable to build 5th gen fighters . USA can take their f-16 and insert them from their back. its 2016 whom is dying for f-16 ?

PAF shall bring in J10c fighters in large number, I always say so cause I know it's even better than F16. F16 is an open secret for lots of nation including India, it doesn't work anymore cause everybody knows about it . USA will consider India's thought before dealing with Pakistan, cause it uses India to contain China.

In USA's eye, Pakistan is no more important than its used to be.

Pakistan among states that will face turmoil for decades: Obama - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Its his last of addreses , I guess !

They won't say much if you come out of FATA , now for them its your own problem ?
They were succsesfull to rescue their puppet called OBL & that's made them look like heros & that's it ?
Actually they don't like much PAF going after TTP ,which is dog with a task to attack & create the window of opportunity for the so called special forces to carry out another legendary rescue by grabbing Pakistani +Islamic nukes ?
No they won't be happy about it , few of uninformed generals of their command may give few statements on the Pakistani efforts against terrorism but stupids in Pentagon/CIA they still want to go green their plans , after destroying Libya ,Afghanistan ,Iraq , egypt , sirya ?
they want to crush Pakistan , Iran , turkey with their agenda of instant kaos after which , in their stupid dreams they will dance over whole world ?
So they won't let Pakistan , be stronger any way ?
Specially air force , which has the capability to act against any aggerision externally or internally ?
They made this deal as a move on the chess board they think setted out for Pakistan?
I'm really amazed that , no one here has mentioned any thing about our so called "TACTICAL NUCLEAR DIVICES " which been demanded from us , privately in the meetings with the puppet political rulers , who are softly working on the plan given by their God fathers in pentagon ?
We need to come out of that fake need of the dam -F-16s & should swing the ball into other direction fast .


Sir ,
Always on your 4°clock , problem is the perception , our military establishment has played the diplomatic game perfectly but its our traitor political leadership trying their best to let us grounded forever ?
Americans with the agreement of Nawaz Sharif , played their best shot , announcing the deal then vetoing it from their dam congress ?
Belive me , if our air chief been found visiting bejing or massow & having few photo sessions on the newest of war machines there , the same stupid Congress will call back their shyti decsion .
But we really need to put an end to this stupid issue forever , NO MORE F-16s & thats it !
Its enough what we have , now we need some thing , likes of $U*35 , J*20 , J-16s & just go ahead , so our dam military capability could come out of american Congress , senate or white house ?

Even you get those outdated F16, can anymore make sure that US congress won't halt providing components during war with India. Never let other hold your balls especially country like USA.

After Musharaff step down, PAF is going worse.

F16 had its glory once, but now is year 2016. Time to move on! Disaster will come if PAF doesn't want to change and stick to F16.

India pilotes had fly the most advanced type of F16 in USA and doing excercise use with Singaporean airforce F16 BLK52+ at frequently basis. F16 has no secret anymore, PAF shall take cautious of it.

Time to move to J10c.

Wake up Pakistani brothers.

Pakistan is Arslan of South Asia. If those Yankees turn you down, you don't beg them.

 

[Oldman1]

PAF shall bring in J10c fighters in large number, I always say so cause I know it's even better than F16. F16 is an open secret for lots of nation including India, it doesn't work anymore cause everybody knows about it . USA will consider India's thought before dealing with Pakistan, cause it uses India to contain China.

In USA's eye, Pakistan is no more important than its used to be.


Even you get those outdated F16, can anymore make sure that US congress won't halt providing components during war with India. Never let other hold your balls especially country like USA.

After Musharaff step down, PAF is going worse.

F16 had its glory once, but now is year 2016. Time to move on! Disaster will come if PAF doesn't want to change and stick to F16.

India pilotes had fly the most advanced type of F16 in USA and doing except use with Singaporean airforce F16 BLK52+ at frequently basis. F16 has no secret anymore, PAF shall take cautious of it.

Time to move to J10c.

Wake up Pakistani brothers.

LOL! You think the J-10 is better than the most advanced open secret F-16? You seem to ignore the upgrades the F-16 has gone through which most nations don't have access to yet.

 

[batmannow]

LOL! You think the J-10 is better than the most advanced open secret F-16? You seem to ignore the upgrades the F-16 has gone through which most nations don't have access to yet.

Upgrade doesn't make it out of space spec ?
You can't change the basic systems , you can upgrade them & that also brings limitations ?
So , don't tell us its from aliens ?lolzZ

 

[Oldman1]

Upgrade doesn't make it out of space spec ?
You can't change the basic systems , you can upgrade them & that also brings limitations ?
So , don't tell us its from aliens ?lolzZ

Did I say it was out of space spec? The only contradiction I'm making is to that the J-10 is better than the out of space spec. LOL!

Never know what the people is cooking up at Area 51.

 

[batmannow]

PAF shall bring in J10c fighters in large number, I always say so cause I know it's even better than F16. F16 is an open secret for lots of nation including India, it doesn't work anymore cause everybody knows about it . USA will consider India's thought before dealing with Pakistan, cause it uses India to contain China.

In USA's eye, Pakistan is no more important than its used to be.


Even you get those outdated F16, can anymore make sure that US congress won't halt providing components during war with India. Never let other hold your balls especially country like USA.

After Musharaff step down, PAF is going worse.

F16 had its glory once, but now is year 2016. Time to move on! Disaster will come if PAF doesn't want to change and stick to F16.

India pilotes had fly the most advanced type of F16 in USA and doing except use with Singaporean airforce F16 BLK52+ at frequently basis. F16 has no secret anymore, PAF shall take cautious of it.

Time to move to J10c.

Wake up Pakistani brothers.

Pakistan is Arslan of South Asia. If those Yankees turn you down, you don't beg them.

We don't beg them , specially our military leadership , but we have been put in a stupid game by our croupt politicians , which I don't think will keep us long there ?
We are just waiting , for right time to begain with ?
We just wanna hear a clear long NO , from that so called evil capitalist empire putting the whole world into its mess.
We will move ahead , I'm sure about it , be it a J-10, J-16s or SU *35 , WE WILL GET OVER IT !