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US Accuses Pakistan of Altering Missiles - NYT


Behind the U.S.-Pakistan Missile Spat: The Indian Threat



By Omar Waraich / Islamabad Tuesday, Sep. 01, 2009


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The spat between Washington and Islamabad over allegations that Pakistan illegally modified U.S.-supplied missiles to improve its ability to target India reveals a deeper schism in the relationship: Pakistan's military establishment remains unmoved by Washington's best efforts to persuade it that the Taliban, rather than India, is the primary threat facing Pakistan — and that's bad news for the U.S. effort in neighboring Afghanistan.Pakistan's Foreign Ministry on Aug. 31 "categorically rejected" charges made by unnamed Obama Administration and Congressional officials quoted in the New York Times the day before that new missiles enabling Pakistan's navy to strike targets on shore were modified from stock supplied by the U.S. during the 1980s. Officials in Islamabad insist that Pakistan produced the new missiles itself.

The quarrel centers on Harpoon antiship missiles sold to Pakistan during the 1980s by the Reagan Administration as part of a broader strategy to counter Soviet influence in the region. Pakistan is alleged to have tinkered with the missiles to enable them to be used against targets on land, and to have conducted a discreet test of the new capability in April. If the allegations are true, Pakistan could be in violation of U.S. law — a point that was reportedly raised by Obama Administration officials with Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani in June.

Some Pakistani experts believe the official claims. "It's nothing extraordinary for Pakistan," says Talat Masood, a retired lieutenant general who headed Pakistan's largest ordnance factory. "Pakistan has a very comprehensive missile program and is fully capable of producing a wide range of missiles: surface-to-surface, ballistic, anti-air, anti-tanks, etc."

Other former officials and analysts are less convinced. "It's quite possible that they may have made some modifications," says a former military official, speaking on condition that his name be withheld. "Because of the sanctions that were imposed in Pakistan in late 1990 [by the U.S. in response to Pakistan's nuclear-weapons program], the missiles stopped going to the U.S. for routine maintenance. They must have opened it up and probably extended its range."

"This is what happens in countries that are dependent on foreign technology," says Ayesha Siddiqa, a military expert and author of Pakistan's Arms Procurement and Military Buildup, 1979-99. Much of Pakistan's military modernization has come about from U.S. arms sales in the 1950s and '80s. "In Pakistan, we have not really gone beyond license production and reverse engineering." Siddiqa adds that this is not the first time that Pakistan has been accused of reverse engineering or modification. A U.S. Tomahawk cruise missile that had strayed into Pakistani territory during strikes on al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in August 1998 and was recovered intact by Pakistan is widely believed to have provided the basis for its Babur cruise missile.

Pakistan spends "a very small amount of defense production on research and development," says Siddiqa. The Ghauri missile — Pakistan's much-vaunted medium-range ballistic missile, capable of traveling up to 1,500 km and carrying a payload of 700 kg — is simply a renamed Nodong-1 missile imported from North Korea. Drawing on the technology of the North Korean imports, Pakistan is continuing to develop its own longer-range variants — all pointed at India.
The Obama Administration has been keen to revive the peace process between Islamabad and New Delhi after it was derailed by last November's Mumbai massacre, believing that taking the relationship between the two countries off a war footing could be a key factor in helping stabilize Afghanistan. The Pakistan military's unshaken focus on its eastern border stems in large part from advances by its rival, including the recent testing of a nuclear submarine. The fear, says retired general Masood, is that "every major induction [in India's military arsenal], whether it is from abroad or indigenous, can be used against Pakistan more than any other." That, of course, may be based on an exaggerated sense of Pakistan's importance in India's strategic thinking: India is establishing itself as a regional power to rival China, which guides the development of its military capability. Pakistan remains suspicious of Indian ambitions in the region, and angry at unresolved disputes, first and foremost over Kashmir. The refusal of Obama's envoy, Richard Holbrooke, to even discuss the issue — which he says falls outside his purview — has not helped the new Administration win Pakistan's trust. Many in Islamabad accuse President Obama of reneging on a campaign promise to seek a resolution on the Kashmir question. Pakistan also fears rising Indian influence in Afghanistan, fearing that the prime challenger to President Hamid Karzai, Abdullah Abdullah, is even more hostile to Pakistan than the incumbent has been perceived to be. To make matters worse, there is also a slowly bubbling water war between India and Pakistan. Against this backdrop, Pakistan's unpopular civilian government finds itself in a squeeze. President Asif Ali Zardari has prided himself on improving relations with Washington and across the region, but like all civilian leaders of Pakistan before him, he is faced with the dilemma of responding to Washington's concerns at the same time as staying on side with an all-powerful military hard-wired for war with India. As ever, in Pakistan, it's the military brass that Washington must convince that Islamic extremism rather than India is their primary challenge, and thus far the generals appear to remain unpersuaded.

Behind the U.S.-Pakistan Missile Spat: The Indian Threat - TIME
 
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It would be better for all of us if USA shuts its mouth and lets us live in peace. The terrorist country has brought the talibani terrorists and cultists right to our borders.

The American media constantly is flinging accusations and venom on us even though it was the USA itself who created, formed and sponsered the taliban and Al Qaeda. Pakistan must stop being apologetic and take up a media campaign against the largest terrorist cult to ever be born that is trying to malign us. These people were brought to power by USA so that the Tajik oil pipeline could go through and their own oil companies could operate in the region.

We have to move away from the USA. They will drown us.
 
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Harpoon missile modification by Pak very serious: US
PTI 1 September 2009, 11:13am IST

WASHINGTON: The US has taken "very seriously" the reports about illegal modifications made in the American-made Harpoon anti-ship missile by Pakistan, to expand capabilities to strike land targets, a potential threat to India, even as Islamabad has agreed for "mutual inspections".

"This is something that we take very seriously. We have raised the issue with the Pakistani government. The (Pak) government has responded with an agreement in principle for mutually agreed inspections," the assistant secretary of state for public affairs P J Crowley, said when asked about a news report published in The New York Times.

In a news report published August 30, The New York Times, quoting unnamed American official, said the US has accused Pakistan of illegally modifications in the Harpoon anti-ship missile to expand its capacity to strike land targets, a potential threat to India. Between 1985 and 1988 the Ronald Reagan administration delivered 165 Harpoon missiles to Pakistan.

"In this particular case, we have some concerns. We shared them with the government of Pakistan. The government of Pakistan has been responsive," Crowley said.

"We would wait and see if those inspections can address the concerns that we have raised," he said.
The US has also accused Pakistan of modifying American-made P-3C aircraft for land-attack missions. Both are violations of the US law, including the Arms Control Export Act.

"I am not going to talk about specific issues, brought up in the story. We watch this closely. These are important agreements. This is not about any one country. With any country with which we exchange our defence articles, we have this kind of agreement," Crowley said.

"When we have concerns about how those systems should be used, we raise these concerns with the appropriate governments," he noted.

The violation by Pakistan were first noted by American intelligence agencies on April 23, The New York Times said, when Pakistan had an unannounced suspicious missile test, that appeared to give the country a new offensive weapon.

The modified version of the missile would be a significant new entry into Pakistan's arsenal against India as these would enable its small navy to strike targets on land in India, this complementing the sizable land-based missile arsenal that Pakistan has developed.

Since early this year, when the Obama administration had proposed to triple the non-military aid and also increase its military assistance to Pakistan, a number of US lawmakers have been making similar charges against Pakistan and demanding that any military aid to the country should be conditional.

The Congress is in the final stages of taking a decision on providing USD 7.5 billion in civilian aid to Pakistan. The latest expose has the potential to "derail" this, the daily said.

Crowley said the administration is keeping the Congress full informed on this issue. When asked if this would have any impact on the future of US aid to Pakistan, he said:

"I would like to take one step at a time. We have raised some concerns. It has been done at the highest levels over lengthy period of time. As we gain more facts, will understand its potential implications."

Harpoon missile modification by Pak very serious: US - US - World - NEWS - The Times of India

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So the part about inspections being offered is true at least, and we shall have to wait and see how those progress and what each sides account of the inspections looks like.
 
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^^^^ Could this be a possible ploy by the US to make entry into Pakistan to monitor and check Pakistani defence installations.....maybe also keep a tab on the Pakistani nuclear program??.....

I just read a report about a US nuclear scientist's report on Pakistan expanding its missile program through Babur Cruise Missile and a Submarine launched version......along with making their P-3C Orions modified to a land attack role...mostly "India centric" and the construction of 2 additional nuclear facilities that is apparantly giving the US and India heartburn......

The game unfolds....but slowly......
 
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Maybe its ur Indian Dirty mind!!!Think about it and Navy does not store harpoons alongside nuclear weapons.The Nuclear Weapons are safeguarded by different organization not by PN.
 
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Easy there cowboy......Its the US making noise about these modifications.....

Besides Im not suggesting that Pakistani Nukes are stored alongside the Harpoons....all Im suggesting is that US is making inroads into Pak....

This feels like a repeat of the Iraq situation.....first the US accuses (could be falsely...who knows) Pakistan of modifying their weapons.....sends an inspection team.....uncovers some other things that are "disturbing" to them.....do I need to spell out the rest.....

Just a thought!!!
 
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^^^^ Could this be a possible ploy by the US to make entry into Pakistan to monitor and check Pakistani defence installations.....maybe also keep a tab on the Pakistani nuclear program??.....
How do you get from an offer for a very specific set of inspections of Pakistan's harpoon inventory, to some sort of comprehensive and wide-ranging intrusive inspections regime that would also cover nuclear and defence facilities?
 
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Even if the missiles are being upgraded what benifit would the US can extract from the investigations . A capability is developed and it cant be rolled back no matter how hard they try. I think it would be silly move by the US to raise such accusations at such a time frame .
unless it has some other plans like laying down sanctions and embargos on our missile program
 
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Maybe its ur Indian Dirty mind!!!Think about it and Navy does not store harpoons alongside nuclear weapons.The Nuclear Weapons are safeguarded by different organization not by PN.

Even if some harpoons were stored at a strategic location, they would be moved to a 'non-strategic location', that the Pakistani Military would consider appropriate for 'visit' by US inspectors.

Any and all inspectors would carry out their work at a time and place of Pakistan's choosing, and obviously be accompanied and monitored by Pakistani personnel at all times.
 
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This is another new ho ha by the American administration. First they said PA is not taking any action against the militants, PA started a comprehensive operation & routed the militants, whole nation is with PA, so this door of accusing got shut. Then came the concerns that Pakistan nukes are unsafe, Pakistan answered it amicably & even the independent western sources certified the Pakistan claim of how secure the nukes are.

So one day Americans were sitting, scratching their fcuked up arse & suddenly thought that hey, we gave them Harpoons 20 years back, their shelf life must have finished & Pakistan has attained a level of experience in which they can copy our Tomahawk missiles, so Pakistan must have made the Harpoons extend their life span by opening the Harpoons themselves, so lets accuse PN of this & when this storm goes by, we will then be accusing PAF. As Strategic Forces have been accused, PA has been accused, so why should we leave PN & PAF. Obama was told the plan and without thinking, which is the trait of American presidents, PN was accused, and now after the proposal of PN to inspect the antique weaponry of Harpoons, that same American would be again scratching his arse & thinking PN Strategy (just like AfPak Strategy) has failed with this PN offer, now back to drawing board and think what to blame PAF for.

After PAF, it may be the Police, FC, Coast Guard etc etc etc
 
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How do you get from an offer for a very specific set of inspections of Pakistan's harpoon inventory, to some sort of comprehensive and wide-ranging intrusive inspections regime that would also cover nuclear and defence facilities?

I think I explained myself in a followup post.....frankly the US needs very little reason to inspect the mainly US origin inventory that Pak possesses.....

They didnt really need a reason to invade Iraq...they just did....
Now they are accusing Pakistan of modifying weapons.....next thing you know...their "investigating team" finds some other discrepancies.....
Im just saying....this news coupled with some of the other recent develpoments about Pakistan testing new missiles, using aid money to buy "India centric offensive weapons" etc....its just co-incidental that such news all showers at the same time.....

Anyways...this is just a theory.....You obviously dont have to pay heed to what I say....Im just stating whats on my mind...thats all.

I think Taimi above is resonating views similar to mine....

Please continue.....
 
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I think I explained myself in a followup post.....frankly the US needs very little reason to inspect the mainly US origin inventory that Pak possesses.....

They didnt really need a reason to invade Iraq...they just did....
Now they are accusing Pakistan of modifying weapons.....next thing you know...their "investigating team" finds some other discrepancies.....
Im just saying....this news coupled with some of the other recent develpoments about Pakistan testing new missiles, using aid money to buy "India centric offensive weapons" etc....its just co-incidental that such news all showers at the same time.....

Anyways...this is just a theory.....You obviously dont have to pay heed to what I say....Im just stating whats on my mind...thats all.

I think Taimi above is resonating views similar to mine....

Please continue.....

Muse made some good arguments related to this earlier in the thread - there is a limit to how much the US can realistically expect to push Pakistan without squandering any little 'trust' that has been built up recently.

US inspections of some products, such as the Block 52 F-16's, and any Military products sold to India as well, are a reality.

Whether the US wants to raise a stink about every little thing it has sold Pakistan, for ulterior motives or legitimate concerns, is not really the issue since they can do that whenever - the issue is how much the inspections, of either the Harpoons or the F-16's, would compromise Pakistan's strategic programs, and the inspections alone cannot do that.

The US wants to see X from Pakistan to establish trust, but Pakistan also wants to see Y from the US to establish trust on its side. So long as the US has an interest in gaining Pakistani trust and cooperation regionally, there is an limit to how far she can push Pakistan.
 
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My take on the issue is that with the winters approaching, PA has slowed down its planned forays into Waziristan. The US is as always for reasons that I have alluded to earlier,wanted this invasion to happen now. The reasons for it are clear.
There are 2 or 3 things happenning at the same time. We are demanding weapons and appropriate capabilities to innitiate this advance, and the US wants to avoid dishing out more weapons. There may be other spabilities for which PA might have a genuine claim but for fear of dissemination, these are being avoided.
The Kerry Luger Bill is up for dissemination and the US and other powers want to ensure a weak PAkistan for various reasons. Since our Govtt is so inept it will be easy to pile the pressure on and make it comply with whatever they want to . THe F16s are due for deliverey Our PAF experts have been saying for sometime that we wil not be getting those and some reason has to be crafted for this. It might also be a good ploy to retain the P3s which might give us significant naval punch.
There is no doubt in my mind that there is a navalized version of a weapon that has been tested. Considering the range of air lauched Raad, it seems that the tech has surpassed the harpoons that we possess. However, whether technology ha s been borrowed or looked at with a view to replicating may be an issue, which is at the bottom of the whole thing. This would be difficult to prove on both sides. Therefore there is a need to put pressure on to get concessions.
Pakistans offer of joint inspection of Harpoon inventory is a good one and shows that we have moved beyond the need to modify Harpoons and have significantly advanced weapons and related know ledge base to worry both the Indians, US and others
At he end of the day whosoever controls the purse controls the tune. It will depend on the Govtt to make a positive and logical stand and avoid hysterionics and chest beatings which is quite annoying.
Araz
 
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Good News we should make more and more of them because we face threat from every where these Missiles have keep Israel and India at bay.We need to join hands with Iran and share some Nuclear Technology with exchange of Billion of Dollars to put our economy back on track so we can have Iran as a bait to Israel and the rest Pakistan Armed Forces are campabale of handling themselves but not our "sophisticated Nuclear technology" some that will help Iran become a Nuclear Power State and a threat to Israel Jews will begin to leave Israel after Iran is a nuclear power than we can re-claim Masjid Al-Aqsa and end the suffering of 6 decades of bloodshed.Jews can go back and live in US and plan other things.

you have been listening to the Iranian Mullahs to much. what are you going to do irradiate Al-Aqsa? Irradiate all of Palestine, Lebenon, and Jordon, and Syria? Even a surprise nuke missile attack would not stop Israel from retaliating with their nuclear armed subs. Not to mention a nuke attack on Israel will force the U.S. to come to it's defense with nukes. Or is Iran planning to take the U.S. out to? Sorry to break it to you Israel is going no where.
 
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I just realized one more thing, that in any kind of precision guided weapon the main thing is the electronics, the guidance kit which make the missile reach its target, identify it & then with a loud BANG hit it. The missile body & propulsion is not a difficult task. So the Americans should have thought before accusing, that if Pakistan can modify a Harpoon missile into hitting land based target, which means the guidance kit has been tampered with & Pakistan has given the Harpoon some new kind of guidance kit or capability to navigate on land, then why can't Pakistan employ the same guidance kit to its more better & deadlier cruise missiles Babur & Raad.

Harpoon which PN got had just Active Radars as seekers, which don't work in land attack mode, meaning the guidance system would have been totally removed & new guidance system composing of GPS, TERCOM, DSMAC, INS etc would have been used. Which makes this harpoon into a totally new missile as there is no alteration to the existing guidance of active radar seeker, which are only employed in AshM, A2A or SAM missiles, not in Land attack role as it doesn't works in land attack role.

So if Pakistan removed the active radar guidance of Harpoon & fitted it with a new guidance on just a 200KG warhead missile, why don't we then use this guidance on the 500KG warhead indigenous cruise missiles.

I do hope the above analysis clearly can illustrate the pig faced American stupidity & can prove that altering Harpoon has no usefulness for us.

And the C-series Chinese AshM which Pakistan got & may be assembling locally have land attack capability. So why need Harpoon of 80s, which is clearly inferior to the latest Chinese ones.
 
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