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Upward mobility: Muslims down; SCs, STs up; upper-caste & OBCs unchanged

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The study also says that mobility levels for African Americans in US are better than those for Muslims in India but the movement of Dalits and Scheduled Tribes is comparable to that of African-Americans.


Written by Seema Chishti | New Delhi | Updated: September 21, 2018 11:06:42 am
muslims.jpg
It, however, concludes that some mobility made possible for Dalits and Scheduled Tribes has been offset by severely declining mobility for Muslims.
As rising aspirations of India’s demographic dividend shape social and political discourse, comes a sobering new study: Looking at education and income, there is little inter-generational mobility (upward mobility from parent to child) in India. Muslims are the biggest losers in the intergenerational mobility index. Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes have done better on the index while upper castes and OBCs have remained where they were.


Authors of the study, based on 5,600 rural sub-districts and 2,300 cities and towns, are Sam Asher, of the World Bank; Paul Novosad of Dartmouth College and Charlie Rafkin of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

Their study, which looks at social groups and intergenerational mobility concludes that, overall, there is little inter-generational mobility and it has not changed even after economic liberalisation. It, however, concludes that some mobility made possible for Dalits and Scheduled Tribes has been offset by severely declining mobility for Muslims.

The study also says that mobility levels for African Americans in US are better than those for Muslims in India but the movement of Dalits and Scheduled Tribes is comparable to that of African-Americans. It finds that South India is overall more inclusive, as is urban India and that education acts as a booster of prospects: “On average, children are most successful at exiting the bottom of the distribution in places that are southern, urban, or have higher average education levels.”





Inter-generational mobility is about change of status across generations, and change of this economic status is a useful measure for describing “changes in access to opportunity over the long run”. But the study also recognises the perils of looking at just economic data or educational indicators as proxies of status mobility.

graph-dempgraphy.jpg


It focuses on “the expected outcome of a child born into the bottom half of the parent outcome distribution (upward interval mobility, referred to as upward mobility); and the expected outcome of a child born into the top half of the parent distribution (downward interval mobility).”

The paper, out this month, says as a summary: “From before liberalization to the present, we find that intergenerational mobility for India as a whole has remained constant on average, but with considerably cross-group heterogeneity. While our results reinforce earlier findings of rising opportunity among Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes that have been noted by other authors, we find that these changes are almost exactly offset in the population as a whole by declining upward mobility among Muslims.”

Co-author Paul Novostad says in a detailed explanation that they chose “a measure of intergenerational mobility; if you are born to a parent in the bottom half of the education distribution, what is your expected education rank?”
Novostad and his co-authors assert that they have done their best to use administrative data as carefully to compensate from tax and other income data in developing countries which not being very reliable. They say that “while India’s growth has made almost everyone a lot better off, it has not changed the rate of churn at all, if you started at the bottom, you’re just as likely to finish at the bottom as you would have been in 1950.”

In between social groups though, the paper concludes that while Scheduled Castes and tribes are more mobile now, prospects for combined forward castes and OBCs have remained the same.

On Muslims, defined as the “least upwardly mobile group in India”, the paper makes the damning claim that the situation is worse than that of African Americans. In the US, while those born at the bottom half of an education distribution on average tend to get to the 34th percentile, Muslims can expect to only get to the 28th, something they term as “really low.”

The paper also makes a case for geography being important, with urban areas being better even for those who are at the bottom of the pyramid: “We also find that urban areas are significantly more mobile than rural areas — for example, the mobility gap between urban and rural locations is about equal to today’s gap between higher caste Hindus and SCs. Using granular geographic data, we find that village assets like roads and schools are associated with more upward interval mobility; on the other hand, SC/ST segregation is associated with lower levels of upward interval mobility.”



https://indianexpress.com/article/i...cs-sts-up-upper-caste-obcs-unchanged-5367452/

Muslim policy of having 4 wives and 20 children to make them a majority is harming their community and India.

@aman_rai @SorryNotSorry @Panzerfaust 3 @pothead @HttpError @abcxyz0000
 
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The study also says that mobility levels for African Americans in US are better than those for Muslims in India but the movement of Dalits and Scheduled Tribes is comparable to that of African-Americans.


Written by Seema Chishti | New Delhi | Updated: September 21, 2018 11:06:42 am
muslims.jpg
It, however, concludes that some mobility made possible for Dalits and Scheduled Tribes has been offset by severely declining mobility for Muslims.
As rising aspirations of India’s demographic dividend shape social and political discourse, comes a sobering new study: Looking at education and income, there is little inter-generational mobility (upward mobility from parent to child) in India. Muslims are the biggest losers in the intergenerational mobility index. Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes have done better on the index while upper castes and OBCs have remained where they were.


Authors of the study, based on 5,600 rural sub-districts and 2,300 cities and towns, are Sam Asher, of the World Bank; Paul Novosad of Dartmouth College and Charlie Rafkin of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

Their study, which looks at social groups and intergenerational mobility concludes that, overall, there is little inter-generational mobility and it has not changed even after economic liberalisation. It, however, concludes that some mobility made possible for Dalits and Scheduled Tribes has been offset by severely declining mobility for Muslims.

The study also says that mobility levels for African Americans in US are better than those for Muslims in India but the movement of Dalits and Scheduled Tribes is comparable to that of African-Americans. It finds that South India is overall more inclusive, as is urban India and that education acts as a booster of prospects: “On average, children are most successful at exiting the bottom of the distribution in places that are southern, urban, or have higher average education levels.”





Inter-generational mobility is about change of status across generations, and change of this economic status is a useful measure for describing “changes in access to opportunity over the long run”. But the study also recognises the perils of looking at just economic data or educational indicators as proxies of status mobility.

graph-dempgraphy.jpg


It focuses on “the expected outcome of a child born into the bottom half of the parent outcome distribution (upward interval mobility, referred to as upward mobility); and the expected outcome of a child born into the top half of the parent distribution (downward interval mobility).”

The paper, out this month, says as a summary: “From before liberalization to the present, we find that intergenerational mobility for India as a whole has remained constant on average, but with considerably cross-group heterogeneity. While our results reinforce earlier findings of rising opportunity among Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes that have been noted by other authors, we find that these changes are almost exactly offset in the population as a whole by declining upward mobility among Muslims.”

Co-author Paul Novostad says in a detailed explanation that they chose “a measure of intergenerational mobility; if you are born to a parent in the bottom half of the education distribution, what is your expected education rank?”
Novostad and his co-authors assert that they have done their best to use administrative data as carefully to compensate from tax and other income data in developing countries which not being very reliable. They say that “while India’s growth has made almost everyone a lot better off, it has not changed the rate of churn at all, if you started at the bottom, you’re just as likely to finish at the bottom as you would have been in 1950.”

In between social groups though, the paper concludes that while Scheduled Castes and tribes are more mobile now, prospects for combined forward castes and OBCs have remained the same.

On Muslims, defined as the “least upwardly mobile group in India”, the paper makes the damning claim that the situation is worse than that of African Americans. In the US, while those born at the bottom half of an education distribution on average tend to get to the 34th percentile, Muslims can expect to only get to the 28th, something they term as “really low.”

The paper also makes a case for geography being important, with urban areas being better even for those who are at the bottom of the pyramid: “We also find that urban areas are significantly more mobile than rural areas — for example, the mobility gap between urban and rural locations is about equal to today’s gap between higher caste Hindus and SCs. Using granular geographic data, we find that village assets like roads and schools are associated with more upward interval mobility; on the other hand, SC/ST segregation is associated with lower levels of upward interval mobility.”



https://indianexpress.com/article/i...cs-sts-up-upper-caste-obcs-unchanged-5367452/

Muslim policy of having 4 wives and 20 children to make them a majority is harming their community and India.

@aman_rai @SorryNotSorry @Panzerfaust 3 @pothead @HttpError @abcxyz0000

:crazy::rofl::rofl::rofl::crazy:
"Muslim policy of having 4 wives and 20 children to make them a majority is harming their community and India."

:rofl::rofl:Maybe they should drink cow ka cola like the majority?:rofl::rofl:
 
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Another report outlining the utterly miserable state of Muslims in india..thanks to discrimination, persecution, and oppressive hindu domination.

Muslims are forced to remain poor and made ever poorer by rise of hindu nationalist sentiments.

I bet hindus inturn would blame Muslims themselves just like racist whites blame poor blacks for their misery (even though historically blacks were forced into poverty and crime by discrimination of white majority).
 
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Another report outlining the utterly miserable state of Muslims in india..thanks to discrimination, persecution, and oppressive hindu domination.

Muslims are forced to remain poor and made ever poorer by rise of hindu nationalist sentiments.

I bet hindus inturn would blame Muslims themselves just like racist whites blame poor blacks for their misery (even though historically blacks were forced into poverty and crime by discrimination of white majority).
And thats why I say thank goodness we have Pakistan. Otherwise we would have ended up in the bad position Indian Muslims are in India.
 
.
Another report outlining the utterly miserable state of Muslims in india..thanks to discrimination, persecution, and oppressive hindu domination.

Muslims are forced to remain poor and made ever poorer by rise of hindu nationalist sentiments.

I bet hindus inturn would blame Muslims themselves just like racist whites blame poor blacks for their misery (even though historically blacks were forced into poverty and crime by discrimination of white majority).

300 million Muslims in India ain't going to take it lying down!
 
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And thats why I say thank goodness we have Pakistan. Otherwise we would have ended up in the bad position Indian Muslims are in India.
yes
:crazy::rofl::rofl::rofl::crazy:
"Muslim policy of having 4 wives and 20 children to make them a majority is harming their community and India."

:rofl::rofl:Maybe they should drink cow ka cola like the majority?:rofl::rofl:
it's the bitter truth @randomradio
 
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yes

it's the bitter truth @randomradio

Once poor Muslim countries start doing well in the future, Muslims in India will start leaving towards those countries for employment and sharia law, like they are in the Middle East.

Another report outlining the utterly miserable state of Muslims in india..thanks to discrimination, persecution, and oppressive hindu domination.

Muslims are forced to remain poor and made ever poorer by rise of hindu nationalist sentiments.

And thats why I say thank goodness we have Pakistan. Otherwise we would have ended up in the bad position Indian Muslims are in India.

Has nothing to do with discrimination and persecution. Muslims in India do not prefer to take up education for whatever reasons.

But the literacy rate of Muslims in India is the same as Muslims in Pakistan. So there is a major cultural difference between Muslims and Hindus when it comes to education. It's not strange that Hindus who are even poorer than Muslims still have higher rates of literacy.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Muslims-least-Jains-most-literate-Census/article14615996.ece
The percentage of those literate among Hindus is up from 54.92 per cent in 2001 to 63.6 per cent in 2011, while the corresponding rise for Muslims is 48.05 percent to 57.28 percent.

https://nation.com.pk/08-Feb-2018/literacy-rate-in-pakistan
Pakistan’s literacy rate has declined from 60 percent to 58 percent, as revealed by the economic survey of Pakistan.

I bet hindus inturn would blame Muslims themselves just like racist whites blame poor blacks for their misery (even though historically blacks were forced into poverty and crime by discrimination of white majority).

Blacks blame whites for their misery, not the other way round.
 
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These extreme Hindus need putting down for the sack of the subcontinent. They even practice extreme prejudice amongst their own ilk. They are not a responsible tribe, it's best they again be under a Muslim hierarchy or lose everything. Tick tock ...
 
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These extreme Hindus need putting down for the sack of the subcontinent. They even practice extreme prejudice amongst their own ilk. They are not a responsible tribe, it's best they again be under a Muslim hierarchy or lose everything. Tick tock ...

"Own ilk"? Is that why they are all doing better than Pak Muslims also?
 
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Once poor Muslim countries start doing well in the future, Muslims in India will start leaving towards those countries for employment and sharia law, like they are in the Middle East.

Overwhelming majority of Muslim countries are already FAR richer, prosperous, stable, and successful than backward sh!thole called india. And oh, Muslim world has toilets too and far lower rape rates than hindu women who have to suffer from that in india :lol:

So your argument is stupid. Muslim indians own the land they live in. It's their land....and they need to be empowered. Don't hold your breath on 300 million Muslims leaving hindustan anytime soon.

Regarding Sharia, Muslims in india already have Shari'ah for themselves :) Matters relating to divorce, inheritance, child custody, and other personal issues are governed under Muslim law so Shariah in other Islamic countries won't attract em as much. Lastly, you don't need country with Shariah...Muslim minorities in Western and even Russian mainlands still live their lives according to Shari'ah in a lot of matters and are happy.

Has nothing to do with discrimination and persecution. Muslims in India do not prefer to take up education for whatever reasons.

Lol, typical excuses by oppressors against the oppressed.

But the literacy rate of Muslims in India is the same as Muslims in Pakistan. So there is a major cultural difference between Muslims and Hindus when it comes to education. It's not strange that Hindus who are even poorer than Muslims still have higher rates of literacy.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Muslims-least-Jains-most-literate-Census/article14615996.ece

It's a subcontinental issue primarily because of british policy of promoting education among Hindus while keeping/depriving Muslim areas of institutional benefits of the raj because Muslim lands for trouble for the British. Just for your info...literacy rates in Pakistan were proportionally far lower to india's than they are today. After independence, Pakistan actually educated its masses at a faster rate than india. But since we started from complete zero situation, it'll take some time for us to fully achieve our potential.

Globally however, Muslims are not only vastly richer, prosperous, and more powerful than hindus---they are more educated and urbanized as well. Look up OICstat website for various statistics on Muslim world (OIC) as a whole.

Blacks blame whites for their misery, not the other way round.

Lol, you think you know about the U.S more than a person who grew up here, went to highschool here, graduated here, and has been working ever since? :lol:

Many Whites have very similar arguments to yours and blame blacks for the bad shape of black people, instead of acknowledging the historical role discrimination and institutional oppression played in the current state of black Americans.
 
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How so? The literacy rate of Indian Muslims is improving. Pakistan's is declining. Both are at 58% as per 2011 figures.

Let's look at Bangladesh's for 2011.
https://countryeconomy.com/demography/literacy-rate/bangladesh?year=2015
Bangladesh it has, according publishes UNESCO, an adult literacy rate of 47.08%.

So Indian Muslims are doing the best in the subcontinent.
Umm.. what nonsense.

Pakistani Muslims are doing way better than Indian Muslims when it comes to economics, employment, and not fearing discrimination.
 
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Overwhelming majority of Muslim countries are already FAR richer, prosperous, stable, and successful than backward sh!thole called india. And oh, Muslim world has toilets too and far lower rape rates than hindu women who have to suffer from that in india :lol:

So your argument is stupid. Muslim indians own the land they live in. It's their land....and they need to be empowered. Don't hold your breath on 300 million Muslims leaving hindustan anytime soon.

Regarding Sharia, Muslims in india already have Shari'ah for themselves :) Matters relating to divorce, inheritance, child custody, and other personal issues are governed under Muslim law so Shariah in other Islamic countries won't attract em as much. Lastly, you don't need country with Shariah...Muslim minorities in Western and even Russian mainlands still live their lives according to Shari'ah in a lot of matters and are happy.



Lol, typical excuses by oppressors against the oppressed.



It's a subcontinental issue primarily because of british policy of promoting education among Hindus while keeping/depriving Muslim areas of institutional benefits of the raj because Muslim lands for trouble for the British. Just for your info...literacy rates in Pakistan were proportionally far lower to india's than they are today. After independence, Pakistan actually educated its masses at a faster rate than india. But since we started from complete zero situation, it'll take some time for us to fully achieve our potential.

Globally however, Muslims are not only vastly richer, prosperous, and more powerful than hindus---they are more educated and urbanized as well. Look up OICstat website for various statistics on Muslim world (OIC) as a whole.

Doesn't explain why Indian and Pakistani Muslims have the same literacy rate. Maybe you can explain why that is so.

Lol, you think you know about the U.S more than a person who grew up here, went to highschool here, graduated here, and has been working ever since? :lol:

Many Whites have very similar arguments to yours and blame blacks for the bad shape of black people, instead of acknowledging the historical role discrimination and institutional oppression played in the current state of black Americans.

Discrimination happened in the past. America has already moved ahead nearly 60 years after Civil Rights. So even after 3 generations they are still complaining about white privilege. Whereas Indians and East Asians are even more privileged than the whites in the US today.

One word: Attitude.

Umm.. what nonsense.

Pakistani Muslims are doing way better than Indian Muslims when it comes to economics, employment, and not fearing discrimination.

I'm talking about literacy rate. Why are Indian Muslims and Pakistani Muslims with the same literacy rate?
 
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Religious and cultural folks will fail over time. These things are becoming less important every passing day.
 
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