Featured United States has secretly built and tested a prototype of a potentially sixth generation fighter jet.

[Figaro]

Is there a thread somewhere about Chinese 6th gen fighter development? Could we have more discussion about the actual thread article please? I am interested in reading more about the developments in the US 6th gen program but have to scroll through all these posts to find anything.

No dedicated thread yet; most of the information has been posted in the J-20 thread. But here is an article summarizing the key features of the Chinese 6th gen program from last year. Note CAC is responsible for the development of the J-20, J-10, FC-1, and other aircraft.



Hints of a next generation fighter

The PLA and Chinese aerospace industry has made impressive advances in recent years and decades to close technological gaps with other leading world military powers. As nations around the world begin to develop 6th generation fighter aircraft and next generation air combat systems, it is likely that China has begun to conduct research and development along similar lines. Assuming that China is aiming to field their equivalent of a 6th generation fighter along a similar time period to U.S., UK and European concepts, pre-research would have likely begun quite a few years ago.

Given traditional Chinese opacity towards leading edge military advances, it was expected that many years might pass until official acknowledgement of a next generation fighter project.

However in early January 2019, the WeChat account of AVIC Times published an interview with Dr. Wang Haifeng, the current chief designer of Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC). One section in the interview provided some surprisingly candid statements regarding a next generation fighter concept.

In this section, Wang first comments on the next generation fighter concepts that have emerged from the U.S. and from Europe. He then lists various technologies that he believes will likely become important in that generation of aircraft such as MUMT, artificial intelligence, very high stealth, omnidirectional sensors and weapons, as well as other less certain technologies such as VCEs, DEWs, hypersonic weapons, and swarming technology.

Astonishingly, he then states that not only has China already been conducting pre-research for a next generation fighter, but also that he predicts current efforts will progress to become weapons to “defend the seas and skies” by 2035 or earlier. Considering the context of the sentence and the choice of words used – specifically “defend the seas and skies,” as opposed to “first appearance” or “emergence” – the interpretation from Wang’s statement is that he expects a next generation Chinese fighter to be in service by 2035 or earlier. Much uncertainty remains currently as to what exactly a 6th generation air combat concept may look like, however it appears a future manned fighter may be part of it for China.

Beyond this statement, there have been other hints that research and development into relevant subsystems has been ongoing. In an article from China’s Science and Technology Awards in June 2018, Liu Youngquan of Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) stated that advancements in developing variable cycle engines have been made, including developing key verification technologies and construction of a key technology system. In fact, as early as 2012, Zhang Jian of the preceding AVIC Engine Company confirmed that China was conducting research and development into variable cycle engines. Chinese interest in MUMT have also been strongly suggested, with multiple unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) programs known to be ongoing, and a swarming UAV concept from Zhuhai Airshow 2018 depicted a generic tailless future fighter controlling swarms of drones.

Beyond China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter

Is a carrierborne FC-31 in the works? And what about Chinese 6th generation prospects?

thediplomat.com

 

[patero]

No dedicated thread yet; most of the information has been posted in the J-20 thread. But here is an article summarizing the key features of the Chinese 6th gen program from last year. Note CAC is responsible for the development of the J-20, J-10, FC-1, and other aircraft.



Hints of a next generation fighter

The PLA and Chinese aerospace industry has made impressive advances in recent years and decades to close technological gaps with other leading world military powers. As nations around the world begin to develop 6th generation fighter aircraft and next generation air combat systems, it is likely that China has begun to conduct research and development along similar lines. Assuming that China is aiming to field their equivalent of a 6th generation fighter along a similar time period to U.S., UK and European concepts, pre-research would have likely begun quite a few years ago.

Given traditional Chinese opacity towards leading edge military advances, it was expected that many years might pass until official acknowledgement of a next generation fighter project.

However in early January 2019, the WeChat account of AVIC Times published an interview with Dr. Wang Haifeng, the current chief designer of Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC). One section in the interview provided some surprisingly candid statements regarding a next generation fighter concept.

In this section, Wang first comments on the next generation fighter concepts that have emerged from the U.S. and from Europe. He then lists various technologies that he believes will likely become important in that generation of aircraft such as MUMT, artificial intelligence, very high stealth, omnidirectional sensors and weapons, as well as other less certain technologies such as VCEs, DEWs, hypersonic weapons, and swarming technology.

Astonishingly, he then states that not only has China already been conducting pre-research for a next generation fighter, but also that he predicts current efforts will progress to become weapons to “defend the seas and skies” by 2035 or earlier. Considering the context of the sentence and the choice of words used – specifically “defend the seas and skies,” as opposed to “first appearance” or “emergence” – the interpretation from Wang’s statement is that he expects a next generation Chinese fighter to be in service by 2035 or earlier. Much uncertainty remains currently as to what exactly a 6th generation air combat concept may look like, however it appears a future manned fighter may be part of it for China.

Beyond this statement, there have been other hints that research and development into relevant subsystems has been ongoing. In an article from China’s Science and Technology Awards in June 2018, Liu Youngquan of Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) stated that advancements in developing variable cycle engines have been made, including developing key verification technologies and construction of a key technology system. In fact, as early as 2012, Zhang Jian of the preceding AVIC Engine Company confirmed that China was conducting research and development into variable cycle engines. Chinese interest in MUMT have also been strongly suggested, with multiple unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) programs known to be ongoing, and a swarming UAV concept from Zhuhai Airshow 2018 depicted a generic tailless future fighter controlling swarms of drones.

Beyond China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter

Is a carrierborne FC-31 in the works? And what about Chinese 6th generation prospects?

thediplomat.com

Maybe you should start one. Until you do, I'll just put you on ignore so I can save time scrolling past your posts.

 

[razgriz19]

Raptor is a 30 year old design now so it's no surprise that they've developed a new fighter

 

[Figaro]

Maybe you should start one. Until you do, I'll just put you on ignore so I can save time scrolling past your posts.

What a disingenuous poster ... I literally linked you an article to answer your question and you put me on ignore. Guess I'll have to do the same too regrettably since some people are just too lazy to find their own information and want everything to be handed to themself on a platter. A forum is not a daycare.

 

[gambit]

Unless... the F-35 was not performing up to standards and they have to go back to the F-15 while 6th gen is being developed.

Absolutely...The F-35 is inferior to ANYTHING China produced.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Absolutely...The F-35 is inferior to ANYTHING China produced.

Supposedly F-35 is far, far better than any F-15 variant.

Supposedly F-35 is also cheaper than the F-15EX.

So... why buy F-15EX when more F-35s can be bought?

 

[gambit]

Supposedly F-35 is far, far better than any F-15 variant.

Supposedly F-35 is also cheaper than the F-15EX.

So... why buy F-15EX when more F-35s can be bought?

It is called 'upskilling'. Am surprised that for someone who claimed to be in manufacturing, the concept is unknown.

 

[Pandora]

US has the required base to build 6th gen fighter jet but the technologies which need to be featured with such a jet are still under development. There is still a debate regarding what classifies as a 6th gen jet. At best all countries can achieve 5.5 generation even with integration of new technologies. F35 features some amazing automation and probably one of easiest planes to fly out there with amazing Flight control automation.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

It is called 'upskilling'. Am surprised that for someone who claimed to be in manufacturing, the concept is unknown.

so USAF is paying to the tune of $80M per plane to keep Boeing in the fighter game... despite them already having the F-18E/F which is coincidentally also being ordered while USN cuts back orders of F-35?

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

Like AI and 5G, and Intel struggle to produce a 10nm processor, while TSMC (and perhaps even Samsung) are working on 3nm?.

If you want to go in that tangent, well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count#Transistor_density

There is feature size and there is transistor density. Intel at 10 nm was having better transistor density than say Samsung and TSMC 7 and 8 nm processes. Intel's next 5nm shrink will throw TSMC and Samsung out of water, even with their 3 nm processes.

 

[gambit]

so USAF is paying to the tune of $80M per plane to keep Boeing in the fighter game... despite them already having the F-18E/F which is coincidentally also being ordered while USN cuts back orders of F-35?

Yup...Kinda like why we developed conformal fuel tanks when we already have air refueling. And usually, by the time the mockery gets old, the rest of the world continues to remain behind US, wondering what the hell happened amidst the ruins of the battlefields. We like it that way.

 

[Zarvan]

What it could be ???? It's either a sixth generation jet or a new Armed Drone.

 

[gambit]

As much as Americans on this forum would like to hype up this event, everyone, especially our potential adversaries, should calm down.

So far, what is reported have been more about the design and procurement processes. For all we know, what happened was the USAF conducted an experiment on the quickest path(s) on how to get a new weapons platform.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a34030586/air-force-secret-new-fighter-jet/

...the Air Force developed the new fighter in about a year—a staggeringly short amount of time by modern standards. The Air Force first developed a virtual version of the jet, and then proceeded to build and fly a full-sized prototype, complete with mission systems.​

​

In many ways, this is strategically, not merely tactically, more significant than any feature a so-called '6th-gen' fighter may or may not have. If we can design a new fighter that is essentially the same as the F-16 but doubled the range, and we did it in one yr, the ability to mass produce such a fighter would definitively upset any military balance because the same processes could be applied to rifles, tanks, APCs, or even the ordinary utility uniform. Or how about an aircraft carrier? Maybe not 10 yrs but five yrs for this giant. In the long run, this also affects the national budget as it will eventually allows greater financial flexibility.

National security policies factored in a country's ability to self defense and if required, the capabilities for power projection. Allies looks for the same. My promises are no good if I cannot deliver within the next five yrs. Leaders and borders can, and have changed, in less time.

On second thoughts, maybe our potential adversaries should not calm down.

 

[Figaro]

If you want to go in that tangent, well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count#Transistor_density

There is feature size and there is transistor density. Intel at 10 nm was having better transistor density than say Samsung and TSMC 7 and 8 nm processes. Intel's next 5nm shrink will throw TSMC and Samsung out of water, even with their 3 nm processes.

Intel is struggling right now ... everyone knows this. They will not catch up with Samsung, let alone TSMC, anytime soon. There is a reason why Intel is trading so low right now.

 

[patero]

If we can design a new fighter that is essentially the same as the F-16 but doubled the range, and we did it in one yr, the ability to mass produce such a fighter would definitively upset any military balance because the same processes could be applied to rifles, tanks, APCs, or even the ordinary utility uniform. Or how about an aircraft carrier? Maybe not 10 yrs but five yrs for this giant. In the long run, this also affects the national budget as it will eventually allows greater financial flexibility.

That's exactly what I am interested in. Going a step further, could these new design and manufacturing processes extend into civilian commercial applications?