UN wants consensual sex decriminalised in Pakistan

[Metanoia]

Mr. Jinnah's funeral prayers were done by a Deobandi cleric.

Didn't you know that.

Oh that's right, he was a Deobandi. That explains. Similar to the funeral prayer of a slain Saudi diplomat at the Jinnah International Airport despite the Saudi consulate and diplomatic staff strictly asking them not to.


Check out the role of heretical Shias in the Pakistan Movement. Heretical Barelvis and heretical Shias and other heretics believing in unity and Islam are the real danger to the Saheeh and Pious "muslims" like @Iqbal Ali

Shias and the Pakistan Movement
Andreas Rieck
DOI:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780190240967.003.0002

A large number of prominent Shia individuals have made crucial contributions to what has been termed the “Muslim political awakening” in nineteenth- and early twentieth-century British India, as well as later in the “Pakistan Movement.” Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the iconic founding father of Pakistan, was himself a convert to Twelver Shi’ism, as were a number of his most important collaborators. But in the decade preceding the independence and partition of India, many Shias worried for the future of their community in the projected Islamic state of Pakistan, which had a clear Sunni majority. Some zealous Shia communalists demanded written guarantees for equal rights in the future state from Jinnah and his All India Muslim League, while others supported the Congress Party which opposed partition. But by 1946 most Shias in those Indian states which would become Pakistan in 1947 were all-out supporters of the Muslim League. This was of special importance in the Punjab which became the core province of Pakistan.

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/vi...40967.001.0001/acprof-9780190240967-chapter-2

Mr. Jinnah's funeral prayers were done by a Deobandi cleric.

Didn't you know that.

@Metanoia the ignorant, clearly did not know that.

Even in your quote, there were witnesses that say Jinnah became a Sunni when his sisters married Sunnis.

You are contradicting yourself.

Even Liaquat Ali Khan's and Fatima Jinnah's joint affidavit to make Jinnah a shia was rejected by the courts.

Clearly you missed that detail in your quote.

Lol, you really a kid. Fatimah Ali Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan knew Jinnah the most. They were his closest.

Secondly, you're a dishonest man as you have conveniently left out the part where the same court did the following: "But in 1976 the court rejected Walji's claim that Jinnah was Sunni; effectively accepting him as a Shia." Yeh part aap bhool gaye? Canadian Cuckoo.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Oh that's right, he was a Deobandi. That explains. Similar to the funeral prayer of a slain Saudi diplomat at the Jinnah International Airport despite the Saudi consulate and diplomatic staff strictly asking them not to.


Check out the role of heretical Shias in the Pakistan Movement. Heretical Barelvis and heretical Shias and other heretics believing in unity and Islam are the real danger to the Saheeh and Pious "muslims" like @Iqbal Ali

Shias and the Pakistan Movement
Andreas Rieck
DOI:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780190240967.003.0002

A large number of prominent Shia individuals have made crucial contributions to what has been termed the “Muslim political awakening” in nineteenth- and early twentieth-century British India, as well as later in the “Pakistan Movement.” Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the iconic founding father of Pakistan, was himself a convert to Twelver Shi’ism, as were a number of his most important collaborators. But in the decade preceding the independence and partition of India, many Shias worried for the future of their community in the projected Islamic state of Pakistan, which had a clear Sunni majority. Some zealous Shia communalists demanded written guarantees for equal rights in the future state from Jinnah and his All India Muslim League, while others supported the Congress Party which opposed partition. But by 1946 most Shias in those Indian states which would become Pakistan in 1947 were all-out supporters of the Muslim League. This was of special importance in the Punjab which became the core province of Pakistan.

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/vi...40967.001.0001/acprof-9780190240967-chapter-2



Lol, you really a kid. Fatimah Ali Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan knew Jinnah the most. They were his closest.

Secondly, you're a dishonest man as you have conveniently left out the part where the same court did the following: "But in 1976 the court rejected Walji's claim that Jinnah was Sunni; effectively accepting him as a Shia.
"

I am aware there were many Shias who helped the Pakistan movement.

Even the Aga Khan the Third helped create the Muslim League I think.

What is your point @Metanoia?

Oh that's right, he was a Deobandi. That explains. Similar to the funeral prayer of a slain Saudi diplomat at the Jinnah International Airport despite the Saudi consulate and diplomatic staff strictly asking them not to.


Check out the role of heretical Shias in the Pakistan Movement. Heretical Barelvis and heretical Shias and other heretics believing in unity and Islam are the real danger to the Saheeh and Pious "muslims" like @Iqbal Ali

Shias and the Pakistan Movement
Andreas Rieck
DOI:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780190240967.003.0002

A large number of prominent Shia individuals have made crucial contributions to what has been termed the “Muslim political awakening” in nineteenth- and early twentieth-century British India, as well as later in the “Pakistan Movement.” Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the iconic founding father of Pakistan, was himself a convert to Twelver Shi’ism, as were a number of his most important collaborators. But in the decade preceding the independence and partition of India, many Shias worried for the future of their community in the projected Islamic state of Pakistan, which had a clear Sunni majority. Some zealous Shia communalists demanded written guarantees for equal rights in the future state from Jinnah and his All India Muslim League, while others supported the Congress Party which opposed partition. But by 1946 most Shias in those Indian states which would become Pakistan in 1947 were all-out supporters of the Muslim League. This was of special importance in the Punjab which became the core province of Pakistan.

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/vi...40967.001.0001/acprof-9780190240967-chapter-2



Lol, you really a kid. Fatimah Ali Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan knew Jinnah the most. They were his closest.

Secondly, you're a dishonest man as you have conveniently left out the part where the same court did the following: "But in 1976 the court rejected Walji's claim that Jinnah was Sunni; effectively accepting him as a Shia." Yeh part aap bhool gaye? Canadian Cuckoo.

Listen dingbat, according to Akbar S Ahmed he says Jinnah was a Sunni Muslim by the end of his life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Jinnah

This according to your beloved wikipedia.

It is you who is dishonest. Quote all of wikipedia then!

 

[Metanoia]

I am aware there were many Shias who helped the Pakistan movement.

Even the Aga Khan the Third helped create the Muslim League I think.

What is your point @Metanoia?

Point is, re-read your posts and my replies to your posts. See what kind of dishonesty and takfeer you're committing on this forum.

 

[MultaniGuy]

@Metanoia If I am a kid, then you are just an infant.

Now stop going offtopic, you are wasting my time.

Point is, re-read your posts and my replies to your posts. See what kind of dishonesty and takfeer you're committing on this forum.

I never made Takfir on anyone, you dishonest wretch.

 

[Metanoia]

Listen dingbat, according to Akbar S Ahmed he says Jinnah was a Sunni Muslim by the end of his life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Jinnah

This according to your beloved wikipedia.

It is you who is dishonest. Quote all of wikipedia then!

Who is Akbar S Ahmed? Tell us please.

I never made Takfir on anyone, you dishonest wretch.

Did you not call the barelvis heretic?

 

[MultaniGuy]

Who is Akbar S Ahmed? Tell us please.

This guy:

Ahmed Akbar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar_Ahmed

Besides that even in your article it mentions that there were many Shias who supported the Congress party as well.

Who is Akbar S Ahmed? Tell us please.



Did you not call the barelvis heretic?

Did I call them Kafir? No I did not. Don't put words into my mouth!

So I did not do takfir on anyone.

 

[Metanoia]

This guy:

Ahmed Akbar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar_Ahmed

So a guy born in 1943 would know more about Jinnah than his own blood sister and his close friend Liaquat Ali Khan?

Besides that even in your article it mentions that there were many Shias who supported the Congress party.

This is your dishonesty on clear display because you're really cherry picking. It clearly states in the article that "But by 1946 most Shias in those Indian states which would become Pakistan in 1947 were all-out supporters of the Muslim League. This was of special importance in the Punjab which became the core province of Pakistan." In the very next line!

Did I call them Kafir? No I did not. Don't put words into my mouth!

Dil kay baat hai tumhari, woh bhi kehe dou.

Why don't you give us a list of deoband and salaf leaders scholars who supported the creation of Pakistan? There're only a few odd ones I am aware of while they were vastly against the creation of Pakistan. The lot which is only good at creating fitnah via takfeer. What are their achievements?

 

[MultaniGuy]

@Metanoia, I am waiting for you lol? Anything else you have to say?

So a guy born in 1943 would know more about Jinnah than his own blood sister and his close friend Liaquat Ali Khan?



This is your dishonesty on clear display because you're really cherry picking. It clearly states in the article that "But by 1946 most Shias in those Indian states which would become Pakistan in 1947 were all-out supporters of the Muslim League. This was of special importance in the Punjab which became the core province of Pakistan." In the very next line!



Dil kay baat hai tumhari, woh bhi kehe dou.

Why don't you give us a list of deoband and salaf leaders scholars who supported the creation of Pakistan? There're only a few odd ones I am aware of while they were vastly against the creation of Pakistan. The lot which is only good at creating fitnah via takfeer. What are their achievements?

It is you who is dishonest. You are going on a tangent. lol when you know you cannot back up your facts.

I am done here. I don't have to digest your crap.

Ahmed Akbar has done his research. What do you know? LOL?
Ahmed Akbar is considered to be a scholar. Again what do you know other than cherry picking wikipedia?

 

[Metanoia]

@Metanoia, I am waiting for you lol? Anything else you have to say?

It is you who is dishonest. You are going on a tangent. lol when you know you cannot back up your facts.

I am done here. I don't have to digest your crap.

Ahmed Akbar has done his research. What do you know? LOL?
Ahmed Akbar is considered to be a scholar. Again what do you know other than cherry picking wikipedia?

No worries kiddo, let the readers decide. I am done with you.

 

[MultaniGuy]

No worries kiddo, let the readers decide. I am done with you.

Same here, stop replying to me and going offtopic.

Let the readers decide.

Yes it is true that the next sentence said that Most Shias supported the Muslim League after that sentence from your quote, but it also said that some Shias supported the Congress party.

Stop cherry-picking and say everything!

 

[GumNaam]

I can assure all of you that given the pragmatic and resilient personality of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, he was the type of a person who would study Islam himself and follow it based on his own interpretation instead of following a "2 rakat ka molvi" who is sunk neck deep in sectarianism (as per none other than Allama Iqbal himself). Further more, it is a historical fact that a lot of these sectarian type molvis didn't vote for him BECAUSE of his shia background. MA Jinnah's famous answer is well known when some molvis told him that "hum aap kay liyay vote nahi karein gey kiyon key aap shia hein" and Jinnah replied "haan tau jao jakay gandhi key liyay vote karlo, shayad woh sunni hoga"!

So I'm pretty sure he would never tie himself to any sect and just wasn't the type of a person to get "converted" to anything!

Now, if someone has a problem with the fact (yes, FACT) that Pakistan was made by an ismaeli shia MA Jinnah, then PLEASE do us ALL a favor and go live in india! After all, "shayad modi sunni deobandhi hoga"! Good luck wid dat!

And I have a sunni background!

 

[MultaniGuy]

I can assure all of you that given the pragmatic and resilient personality of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, he was the type of a person who would study Islam himself and follow it based on his own interpretation instead of following a "2 rakat ka molvi" who is sunk neck deep in sectarianism (as per none other than Allama Iqbal himself). Further more, it is a historical fact that a lot of these sectarian type molvis didn't vote for him BECAUSE of his shia background. MA Jinnah's famous answer is well known when some molvis told him that "hum aap kay liyay vote nahi karein gey kiyon key aap shia hein" and Jinnah replied "haan tau jao jakay gandhi key liyay vote karlo, shayad woh sunni hoga"!

So I'm pretty sure he would never tie himself to any sect and just wasn't the type of a person to get "converted" to anything!

Now, if someone has a problem with the fact (yes, FACT) that Pakistan was made by an ismaeli shia MA Jinnah, then PLEASE do us ALL a favor and go live in india! After all, "shayad modi sunni deobandhi hoga"! Good luck wid dat!

And I have a sunni background!

Nobody is denying Jinnah was born an Ismaili. That everybody knows. The debate was whether Jinnah converted to the Sunni sect later in his life.

You are missing the point.

 

[GumNaam]

Nobody is denying Jinnah was born an Ismaili. That everybody knows. The debate was whether Jinnah converted to the Sunni sect later in his life.

You are missing the point.

Please read my post again...I am saying that he just wasn't the type of the person to play this "yippy yippy lets pick a sect to convert to yippy yippy" game! He was a Muslim and that is IT!

 

[Sine Nomine]

Depends on the village.

Which village you are talking about then?

.” Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the iconic founding father of Pakistan, was himself a convert to Twelver Shi’ism

He was a Khoja Shia a.k.a Agha Khani and never converted to Twelver Shi'ism.

The Khojas are an ethnic group in India and Pakistan, formerly a Hindu trading caste, founded in the fourteenth century by a famous saint, and followers of the Agha Khan, the spiritual leader of the Ismaili sect.Khoja" is the form used in India for the Persian term "Khwajah," meaning "a rich or respectable man; a gentleman; an opulent merchant."
Khojas are the major Muslim trading caste of western India. The Khojas of the Punjab are Sunni and are largely derived from the Hindu caste Khatri. The Khojas of Bombay, however, derive largely from the Hindu Lohana caste in Sind, and they are Shia and followers of the Agha Khan.
Taken from Enthoven, Reginald E. (1921). "Kojah." In The Tribes and Castes of Bombay, edited by Reginald E. Enthoven. Vol. 2, 218-230. Bombay: Government Central Press.​

After independence when he was invited by shia ulmas to attend a Majlis,he simply denied it.
His faith shouldn't be our debt,let's move on.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Which village you are talking about then?

He was a Khoja Shia a.k.a Agha Khani and never converted to Twelver Shi'ism.

The Khojas are an ethnic group in India and Pakistan, formerly a Hindu trading caste, founded in the fourteenth century by a famous saint, and followers of the Agha Khan, the spiritual leader of the Ismaili sect.Khoja" is the form used in India for the Persian term "Khwajah," meaning "a rich or respectable man; a gentleman; an opulent merchant."
Khojas are the major Muslim trading caste of western India. The Khojas of the Punjab are Sunni and are largely derived from the Hindu caste Khatri. The Khojas of Bombay, however, derive largely from the Hindu Lohana caste in Sind, and they are Shia and followers of the Agha Khan.
Taken from Enthoven, Reginald E. (1921). "Kojah." In The Tribes and Castes of Bombay, edited by Reginald E. Enthoven. Vol. 2, 218-230. Bombay: Government Central Press.​

After independence when he was invited by shia ulmas to attend a Majlis,he simply denied it.
His faith shouldn't be our debt,let's move on.

Well, Ahmed Akbar and Vali Nasr say otherwise.

Anyways enough is enough. I am getting sick and tired of this topic. Now its time for a cup of tea and a piece of cake.