UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s

[MastanKhan]

Jf17 itself is a small plane so lacks the power of the f16 and the j10 and limits the number of weapons load range and ancillary pods. You are right it will.also mean reduced power for radars .

It's a small.lightweight fighter

Pakistan have deliberately cut corners on interest of speedy induction and reduced cost

Hi,

The size does not lack the Power---the power out put is proportional to the weight of the aircraft + accessories.

There was no deliberate cutting of corners---and there is no such thing as REDUCED COST in this aircraft---.

The price is low for the reason that it is AN IN HOUSE design and no contractors involved to take the profit.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

any offer from UAE or we just assuming the deal?

 

[Centurion2016]

Hi,

The size does not lack the Power---the power out put is proportional to the weight of the aircraft + accessories.

There was no deliberate cutting of corners---and there is no such thing as REDUCED COST in this aircraft---.

The price is low for the reason that it is AN IN HOUSE design and no contractors involved to take the profit.

The price is low because you people cut corners in the following areas to speed up induction and keep unit cost down.

The airframe is stable single fbw... All modern fighters are triplex or quadruplex fbw.

No attempt made to induct carbon composite airframe you guys went for metal alloy airframe again weaker body and dated design.and maintenance nightmare

You Ieft out any helmet mounted display which is crucial in a dog fight for modern jets.
the only hmd in Pakistan airforce is the jhmc in the block 52,
You have no irst system
you have elected to power the plane with a dated Russian engine.
the first block had no internal refulers
to date you have no twin seaters again crucial for training .

The programme was intentionally kept modest

 

[BHarwana]

The airframe is stable single fbw... All modern fighters are triplex or quadruplex fbw.

No attempt made to induct carbon composite airframe you guys went for metal alloy airframe again weaker body and dated design.and maintenance nightmare

Well the air frame of JF-17 is driven from the most used and produced and still operated MIG-21 or F7PG or J7. This is the most proven air frame in the world and has seen most combat. So the air frame base is one of the best available in the world better than any F-16s, Mig 29, Rafale, Euro fighter. The aero-dynamical design is better than Euro F-16 and MIG-29, as the intakes of all these fighters are below them which increase air resistance and increase drag where as JF-17 intakes are configured along the wings to minimize drag.
The jet engine features a modular twin-shaft design with individual parts that can be replaced separately and has a good tolerance to the environment. The RD-33 is simple to maintain and retains good performance in challenging environments due to this reason JF-17 has the least crashes till date where as Typhoon has crashed a lot
RAF going down

 

[Centurion2016]

Well the air frame of JF-17 is driven from the most used and produced and still operated MIG-21 or F7PG or J7. This is the most proven air frame in the world and has seen most combat. So the air frame base is one of the best available in the world better than any F-16s, Mig 29, Rafale, Euro fighter. The aero-dynamical design is better than Euro F-16 and MIG-29, as the intakes of all these fighters are below them which increase air resistance and increase drag where as JF-17 intakes are configured along the wings to minimize drag.
The jet engine features a modular twin-shaft design with individual parts that can be replaced separately and has a good tolerance to the environment. The RD-33 is simple to maintain and retains good performance in challenging environments due to this reason JF-17 has the least crashes till date where as Typhoon has crashed a lot
RAF going down

I suggest you do research on Carbon composite Airframe technology . This design concept
increases strength
reduces weight and radar cross section
less likely to suffer fatigue and stress in combat and flight

All the euro canards the Tejas and J10 J20 & J31 and USA fifth gen fighters have composite airframes

Secondly if your Thunder gets into a dog fight within visual range less 20km with any adversary who has a offboresight missle linked to a HMD (helmet mouted display) your thunder will lose 9 out of 10 times

Your thunder has dated FLYBYWIRE airframe and no HMD

The indian airforce has HMD on SU30MKI/MIG29SMT new upgraded Mirage2000/5 AND vitally the Dash 5 hmd on the TEJAS mark one with python 5 WVR missles.

in a DOG FIGHT your Thunder is handicapped aldso by having a heavy airframe with stable design

Where the Thunder may score a kill is in BVR using SD10 but kill ratios at 50km and above drop to 1 in 5 shots.

NO OFFENCE but the thunder needs HMD and better airframe going forward

 

[BHarwana]

I suggest you do research on Carbon composite Airframe technology . This design concept
increases strength
reduces weight and radar cross section
less likely to suffer fatigue and stress in combat and flight

All the euro canards the Tejas and J10 J20 & J31 and USA fifth gen fighters have composite airframes

Secondly if your Thunder gets into a dog fight within visual range less 20km with any adversary who has a offboresight missle linked to a HMD (helmet mouted display) your thunder will lose 9 out of 10 times

Your thunder has dated FLYBYWIRE airframe and no HMD

The indian airforce has HMD on SU30MKI/MIG29SMT new upgraded Mirage2000/5 AND vitally the Dash 5 hmd on the TEJAS mark one with python 5 WVR missles.

in a DOG FIGHT your Thunder is handicapped aldso by having a heavy airframe with stable design

Where the Thunder may score a kill is in BVR using SD10 but kill ratios at 50km and above drop to 1 in 5 shots.

NO OFFENCE but the thunder needs HMD and better airframe going forward

Metal and firm air frame and backward shifted Aero-dynamical center of gravity provide more maneuverability over a carbon composite and canard configuration. This is the very reason SU 35m was able to perform the PUkachove Cobra maneuver and Canard configuration cannot. Canard is good for fast interception and missile delivery without maneuverability and the Air frame design of JF-17 is driven from the still best interceptor like F7PG which has the most proven record of interception

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

This is the very reason SU 35m was able to perform the PUkachove Cobra maneuver and Canard configuration cannot.

BS

F7PG which has the most proven record of interception

Again, BS...

 

[Centurion2016]

Metal and firm air frame and backward shifted Aero-dynamical center of gravity provide more maneuverability over a carbon composite and canard configuration. This is the very reason SU 35m was able to perform the PUkachove Cobra maneuver and Canard configuration cannot. Canard is good for fast interception and missile delivery without maneuverability and the Air frame design of JF-17 is driven from the still best interceptor like F7PG which has the most proven record of interception

I see you have completely ignored my post

You made no reference to lack of HMD off off boresight missle
You started talking about canards rather than the dated single FBW aitframe on thunder
And please leave the dated F7PG out of this
Finally the best 4th generation fighters on the planet are all delta
Rafale
Typhoon
Gripen
J10 vanguard
Tejas

So they must all of got this horribly wrong

 

[BHarwana]

I see you have completely ignored my post

You made no reference to lack of HMD off off boresight missle
You started talking about canards rather than the dated single FBW aitframe on thunder
And please leave the dated F7PG out of this
Finally the best 4th generation fighters on the planet are all delta
Rafale
Typhoon
Gripen
J10 vanguard
Tejas

These jets lack to MIG 35 and F-16 in Dog fight and Maneuverability. You are ignoring my post about the restrictions of Canard config. Why leave the F7PG the jet is still operational in most of the world as Mig 21 and F7PG and is used by most Air forces as interceptors. Even Russians till date use it for interception. It has the quickest approach.

Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen are Canard they are only better because of Avionic suites not Air frame designs. They very reason two of the most powerful air forces and producers avoid Canard i.e is Russia and USA. Canard is for noob developers. The new avionic suit being devloped by China for JF-17 is the only reason Pakistan is inducting these jets it will be implemented this year. HMD is one thing JF-17 lacks and will be inducted soon there are deals going in soon you will hear a boom.

 

[deep_blue]

Finally the best 4th generation fighters on the planet are all delta
Rafale
Typhoon
Gripen
J10 vanguard
Tejas

So they must all of got this horribly wrong

Really??
I mean really??you r mentioning tejas in "the best" 4th gen aircraft???
And really all the best 4th gen aircrafts are delta???
F 15,F16,F18??????
Russian mig 29 mig35 & flankers don't count????
I mean....really????

 

[Centurion2016]

These jets lack to MIG 35 and F-16 in Dog fight and Maneuverability. You are ignoring my post about the restrictions of Canard config. Why leave the F7PG the jet is still operational in most of the world as Mig 21 and F7PG and is used by most Air forces as interceptors. Even Russians till date use it for interception. It has the quickest approach.

So the Chinease must be idiots inducting canards based J10 and ignoring the F7 based Thunder ????

 

[BHarwana]

So the Chinease must be idiots inducting canards based J10 and ignoring the F7 based Thunder ????

There is a thing called interceptors canard suites that if they have speed. Rafale found only Indians a buyers after so many years of production why. China has variety of designs and they are developing every tech and experimenting. Why are they not using Canard in FC-31??

 

[Centurion2016]

JF17 block 1 & 2
With no HMD and no off boresight missle
No carbon composite airframe
only single digital FBW with relaxed stable design
Russian rd93 ENGINE

V
Tejas mk1
with dash 5 HMD & Python 5 WVR missles
full quadruplex unstable FBW
carbon composit airframe
USA supplied GE engines

Can you see the difference BHARWANA at least on paper specs anyway

 

[BHarwana]

So the Chinease must be idiots inducting canards based J10 and ignoring the F7 based Thunder ????

The best in 4th gen are SU 35M, MiG 35, F-15 and F-16 that have some consideration. Rest are just toys to spend tax payers money and the jet named Tejas is not considered a fighter jet till now.

Tejas mk1
with dash 5 HMD & Python 5 WVR missles
full quadruplex unstable FBW
carbon composit airframe
USA supplied GE engines

Can you see the difference BHARWANA at least on paper specs anyway

Why did India Navy rejected Tejas and is considering Gripen as they have same power plants.

 

[GuardianRED]

There is a thing called interceptors canard suites that if they have speed. Rafale found only Indians a buyers after so many years of production why. China has variety of designs and they are developing every tech and experimenting. Why are they not using Canard in FC-31??

BECAUSE the Chinese are more interest and already started inducting LSP of the J20 which has.... wait for it CANARDS.

U need to keep up with the facts !!... Both Qatar and Egypt have bought the rafale and already a few frames are be delivered to them,