Type 052D destroyer VS Horizon-class frigate

[gambit]

Why are you harping about Muslims ?

Because the Muslims were involved in Afghanistan. Did you missed that?

Why would any other country get involved in the mess the super powers created ?

Afghanistan is a Muslim country, therefore other Muslim countries felt they had a moral compulsion to get involved. You do not like it? Go yell at them. But since history have them as active participants, they cannot be dismissed out of the discussion. You are being intellectually dishonest about this.

Fact is.. you funded the extremism to suit your needs when you no longer required them you left..

Fact is...US funding is 1/4 of the equation. The others are funding from the Muslim countries, the manpower from the Muslim countries, and the spiritual leadership from the other Muslim countries. You cannot dismiss these.

Since your country was involved in this war it was your business to help them instead of leaving all those extremists out there .....

Is the burden equally on the Muslims as well? But never mind that rhetorical question. You proved you are willing to be intellectually dishonest about this discussion so the answer to that rhetorical question is: No. The Muslims have nothing to do with post Soviet Afghanistan. I just saved you a lot of mental gymnastics.

Again...am talking about economic development and making sure they had kept a democratically elected govt.. as you guys talk about projecting democracy..

What is wrong with the other Muslim countries helping Afghanistan? As far as democracy goes, the Afghans were not ready for it even back then. The democracy argument is a canard. Any first year Political Science student would laugh at your argument.

AS far as "oil" goes..you don't really believe U.S spent all this time and money and billions and billions of dollars just to kill terrorists and for protecting human rights ....

Fine...The how much oil did the US took from Afghanistan? And please do not bore me with loony conspiracy theories involving Unocal. That was debunked a long time ago.

mind i ask you why America made a false claim about Saddam having nukes and invaded Iraq...

False does not mean lie. And the technical intelligence we, meaning the alliance that includes the Muslims, received were shared by all. Am willing to bet you did not do one hour of unbiased research on this subject so I will give you a clue: The UN nuclear program inspection and enforcement program. See if you can find the relevant TECHNICAL literature and understand what the UN considers to be important.

Am not talking about Muslims .... though they have a fault of their own in this ...

You have to. The Muslims had even greater presence and participation in Soviet occupied Afghanistan than US.

Does it matter if you were involved with bin ladin or not..fact is..you funded the mujahideen ...

So did the Saudis. Robin Cook have no credible evidences that we knew Osama bin Laden at a personal level. At best, we would have heard of him simply because he was a wealthy Saudi. This is as loony as how Saddam Hussein was trained by US.

You are wondering why a hardened terrorist did not uplift Afgan from the 7nth century ? ..... lol

Am wondering why 20th century Muslims from oil rich countries did nothing for Afghanistan. Can you explain why not?

 

[Star Wars]

Because the Muslims were involved in Afghanistan. Did you missed that?


Afghanistan is a Muslim country, therefore other Muslim countries felt they had a moral compulsion to get involved. You do not like it? Go yell at them. But since history have them as active participants, they cannot be dismissed out of the discussion. You are being intellectually dishonest about this.


Fact is...US funding is 1/4 of the equation. The others are funding from the Muslim countries, the manpower from the Muslim countries, and the spiritual leadership from the other Muslim countries. You cannot dismiss these.


Is the burden equally on the Muslims as well? But never mind that rhetorical question. You proved you are willing to be intellectually dishonest about this discussion so the answer to that rhetorical question is: No. The Muslims have nothing to do with post Soviet Afghanistan. I just saved you a lot of mental gymnastics.


What is wrong with the other Muslim countries helping Afghanistan? As far as democracy goes, the Afghans were not ready for it even back then. The democracy argument is a canard. Any first year Political Science student would laugh at your argument.


Fine...The how much oil did the US took from Afghanistan? And please do not bore me with loony conspiracy theories involving Unocal. That was debunked a long time ago.


False does not mean lie. And the technical intelligence we, meaning the alliance that includes the Muslims, received were shared by all. Am willing to bet you did not do one hour of unbiased research on this subject so I will give you a clue: The UN nuclear program inspection and enforcement program. See if you can find the relevant TECHNICAL literature and understand what the UN considers to be important.


You have to. The Muslims had even greater presence and participation in Soviet occupied Afghanistan than US.


So did the Saudis. Robin Cook have no credible evidences that we knew Osama bin Laden at a personal level. At best, we would have heard of him simply because he was a wealthy Saudi. This is as loony as how Saddam Hussein was trained by US.


Am wondering why 20th century Muslims from oil rich countries did nothing for Afghanistan. Can you explain why not?

Not sure why you quoted my post a dozen times when you could have answered in 3 words " Muslims did it"

You basically blamed the entire post on the Muslims ... am not talking about them.....am talking why did the Americans not play their part....but but but...the Muslims...they did not help....Your diverting it all into the Muslims.... you failed to play your part ..and now the hold world is suffering of terrorism because of Americas ignorance..

Riiiiiiggghhtt...this is where i hear You expected the democratically elected Zia "lol" regime and Saudi's to support a democratically elected govt... :Tongue:


As for the oil ...you brought that up not me ..since you did..( your smart to try to destroy an argument before it is made by blaming it as a Conspiracy theory ) . Only narrow minded people scream "conspiracy theory" . or what i call Tunnel vision...either a theory is right..or its wrong ...quite simple


Oil for Blood in Afghanistan?

 

[RAMPAGE]

@gambit @Star Wars

drop it plz & stick to the topic !!!!!

 

[gambit]

@gambit @Star Wars

drop it plz & stick to the topic !!!!!

When it comes to the US, people will take potshots whenever an opportunity is available. Anyway, the guy have not presented a single original argument and it is just like those loony 9/11 conspiracy theories, leave alone long enough and someone will rehash old arguments as new.

 

[Audio]

it's universal VLS model can launch multi-role missiles, 052D's air defense firepower channels more than Horizon's.

China r researching domestic ESSM, to install 4xESSM in one VLS unite.

Those ships can be prefitted with the biggest model of Sylver launcher, the A70, which in that case functions as universal as it can take cruise missiles, Aster and a quad pack of Crotale missiles.

http://www.dcnsgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6141.pdf

052D's air defense firepower channels more than Horizon's.

Any source for this?

Here's a little bit about the radar:

http://www.selex-systemsintegration.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/EMPAR.pdf

 

[Nike]

Those ships can be prefitted with the biggest model of Sylver launcher, the A70, which in that case functions as universal as it can take cruise missiles, Aster and a quad pack of Crotale missiles.

http://www.dcnsgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6141.pdf



Any source for this?

Here's a little bit about the radar:

http://www.selex-systemsintegration.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/EMPAR.pdf

Hmm as far as i know, Type 54D itself it was a test bed ship programs and intermediate solutions for PLANavy, till they achieve more mature technology to catch up western Naval technology in class of destroyer (especially AAW roles). Because altough they will fielded around six ships of this class, it is not they have fully satisfied about it when you heard the Chinese actually researching and prepare to build the more complex and bigger Type 55 Destroyer.

 

[LaughingFalcon]

Probably wants to know In air defence role,as that is primary role of both.

The 052D is still a design in progress. The objectives set by the PLN are to engage enemies with land-based missile supports and defend China's high-valued vessels AS part of a defensive group. It's definitely not for fighting Somali pirates...

The 055 frigate will be the primary PLN destroyer PLN relies on 8 - 10 years from now.

 

[Alienware]

What are you smoking? Both Aster and HHQ-9 are SAMs, as in surface-to-AIR missiles; they are not used to defend against 'sea skimmers'. For that, you have CIWS.

Er... the Aster was specifically designed to intercept all high performance air targets - including supersonic sea skimming missiles. A few years ago a French Horizon-class frigate intercepted a Coyote drone simulating a supersonic sea skimming anti-ship missile at speeds of Mach 2.5+

CIWS is a last ditch defence if the missile fails to hit its target.

 

[RAMPAGE]

................

 

[Superboy]

At this point, I would put Type 052D above Horizon.

The 052D is still a design in progress.

I was under the impression Type 052D has been on sea trial sea August?

 

[copasi]

power system used by Type 45 is admirable