Turkish M60T tank vs Kornet anti-tank missile at Turkey's Bashiqah base in Iraq

[500]

The Kornets-E, export model, is not the latest Russian ATGM. It's penetration is degraded to 100mm (4 inches) less then the Russian version.

100 mm when it comes to missile with 1200 mm is nothing - statistical variation. More over its a myth that export versions are always weaker. For example India got T-90 with welded turret and thermal sights before Russia.

Interesting enough the RPG-29 performed better against reactive armor then the Kornet in field trials.

Another myth.

M-60s, Abrams, Merkavas and challengers have all been penetrated by weaker Kornet-E missiles. The Turkish M-60 was hit in the most protected part of the tank, its oblique or reactive armor, however, was all but destroyed, and as a result exposed the thin turret armor to secondary attack.

All tanks can be penetrated. All depends on point of impact.

Also penetrations can vary a lot. If 1000-mm missile penetrates 250-mm tank (basic version of M60), it will have a devastating effect almost certainly. On the other hand if it penetrates 800-mm tank it will have minor effect unless it is lucky and hits fuel or ammo.

Merkava, Lebonon

Its Mk2 version from 33 years ago. Not a single Mk4 was destroyed by Kornets.

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[XY1234]

Our SABRA was further improved to M-60 T . Turkey lost under Erdogan lot of of time.
Our reactive armor was developed for Altay - TR with Ukrainian and Israeli support.

 

[ptldM3]

100 mm when it comes to missile with 1200 mm is nothing - statistical variation. More over its a myth that export versions are always weaker. For example India got T-90 with welded turret and thermal sights before Russia.

Almost everything you say is literally baseless assumptions. Anything you don't like is a "myth" or a "lie" no matter how many sources I provide.


The Kornet-E has a 1200mm RHA ratting, the Kornet-D has a 1300mm RHA rating, a 100mm or 4 inch difference is proposterous for "statistical variation". And no it's not a lie that most export Russian weapons are inferior, a Mig-29 is a great example.

Another myth.

pathetic rebuttal Explain with sources or prove its a myth that an RPG- 29 Is inferior against ERA as compared to the Kornet. I have a source to back my claim up. A source that has no agenda. A source that is not selling or advertising anything. Read the entire article before scream it's a myth. The author is Ukrainian, in the article the Ukrainian T-80 clearly was inferior to the T-90. Both the RPG-29 and the Kornet are Russian designs so a Ukrainian with no affiliation to any Russian arms makers has no reason to lie. Moreover, the author provided actual photos and details about the test. Not to mention Lt.Col. Vladimir Karpov was a source, he also has no affiliation to arms makers.



http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html

• Original reports that ATGM Kornet performance is severely degraded by ERA due to its peculiar order of internal components proved true as the ATGM with at least 100mm higher penetrating potential was not superior to a much lighter RPG-29.

All tanks can be penetrated. All depends on point of impact.

No shit. That's exactly what I wrote, so not only do you scream "myth" and "lie" like an obnoxious kid at every source I provide but you also can not comprehend basic sentences.

Also penetrations can vary a lot. If 1000-mm missile penetrates 250-mm tank (basic version of M60), it will have a devastating effect almost certainly. On the other hand if it penetrates 800-mm tank it will have minor effect unless it is lucky and hits fuel or ammo.

And?????

Its Mk2 version from 33 years ago. Not a single Mk4 was destroyed by Kornets.

Another lie from the pathological liar. At least 1 MK4 was destroyed by a Kornet, the number would have been higher if the MK4 was widely used. Moreover, several MK3s were also destroyed. And at least 15 Merkavas were fully penatrated.



http://csis.org/files/publication/120720_Cordesman_LessonsIsraeliHezbollah.pdf




Two of the eight Merkava 4s were knocked out of commission and their commander was mortally wounded [when] caught in the sights of long-range, Russian-made, Syrian-supplied, laser- beamed, self-propelled Kornet anti-tank missiles

 

[XY1234]

15 Merkavas were fully penatrated

We can penetrate all what is Russian. You know ?

Your post sounds as a promotion for Russian scum military industry.
Turks tested Kornet's with thermobaric heads against caves of the PKK.

Theory and practices differ much on the war-field

http://www.janes.com/article/59682/turkish-tank-survives-kornet-missile-strike

The M60T is an M60A1 that has been upgraded with a 120 mm smoothbore gun, a new fire-control system, a more powerful engine and transmission, and hybrid armour (both active and passive) over its frontal arc.

 

[ptldM3]

We can penetrate all what is Russian. You know ?

A T-90 has never went up against any Israeli weapons nor has the T-14 Armata, but plenty of Israeli tanks were destroyed by Russian made Kornets and RPG-29s so no I don't know.

Your post sounds as a promotion for Russian scum military industry.

Big surprise for you firstly, I'm Jewish...a Russian Jew Secondly its you and 500 that are boasting about how great Israeli tanks are, how they can defeat Russian tanks, how they have never been destroyey, and many more such fantastic claims. All of my claims are based off of sources and reality. My claim is that so far no tank is invinsible, Abrams, M-60s, challengers, T-72s, and Merkavas have all been destroyed in battle.

It's that when I said Merkavas have been destroyed you and 500 got your panties in a bunch and started getting defense.

Turks tested Kornet's with thermobaric heads against caves of the PKK.

What is your point? What does this have to do with anything?

 

[XY1234]

Jewish...a Russian Jew

I am a Turkish Jew, surprise ?

The Merkava Mk. 1 has since been superseded by the more advanced Merkva Mk. 2, Mk. 3, and Mk. 4, which the IDF likes to call the best tank in the world. "There is no question that it is the best tank in existence, by every measure, because it was built to meet Israel's defense needs," says Matzliach, "It has outstanding ability to move through the rough terrain of the Golan Heights. It passes through boulders and rocks without trouble, faster than other tanks, with a 1,500-horsepower engine and fire power that can enables it to identify, locate, and destroy the enemy."

Dozens of Merkava tanks were damaged during the 2006 Second Lebanon War in the summer of 2006. Hezbollah squads armed with Metis and Coronet antitank missiles ambushed IDF armored forced and caused losses. "A bloody experience?" says Matzliach angrily. "Merkava tanks proved in these clashes a higher survivability compared with other wars, especially the Merkava Mk. 4. In the Yom Kippur War, 60% of missiles that hit tanks caused serious damage, whereas in the Second Lebanon War, 60% of missiles that hit Merkavas of all versions caused no serious damage. In fact, 90% of the tanks hit from missiles in the Second Lebanon War were returned to operational service."

Except top attack M-60 T SABRA has comparable protection of Merkava Mk4. I won't mention Trophy

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-merkava-tank-battle-for-exports-deals-1000920477

 

[cerberus]

nd no it's not a lie that most export Russian weapons are inferior, a Mig-29 is a great example.

Consider Indian Mig-29 Upg Then

1. Capability To Fire HOBS IRCCM With Thales Samatel HMDS
2. Indian Version Of Mig-29 Has AESA Based Jammers & DRFM

 

[XY1234]

Kornet vs Abrams

 

[500]

The Kornet-E has a 1200mm RHA ratting, the Kornet-D has a 1300mm RHA rating, a 100mm or 4 inch difference is proposterous for "statistical variation".

Difference between 1300 mm and 1200 mm is is just 8%. Thats statistical variation for any penetration.

And no it's not a lie that most export Russian weapons are inferior, a Mig-29 is a great example.

As noted here Indian MiG-29 is not inferior at all. Indian Su-30MKI is superior to Russian Su-30SM.

http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html

I know that page and I know Fofanov, I've communicated with him 15 years ago. I remember well he admitted once that this test is a myth. Thats why I am saying that with confidence.

No shit. That's exactly what I wrote, so not only do you scream "myth" and "lie" like an obnoxious kid at every source I provide but you also can not comprehend basic sentences.

First of all I am talking very calmly and never insulted u. While u constantly do it. So who is obnoxious kid here?
Secondly I say myth only when u post myths, like this test.

Another lie from the pathological liar. At least 1 MK4 was destroyed by a Kornet, the number would have been higher if the MK4 was widely used. Moreover, several MK3s were also destroyed. And at least 15 Merkavas were fully penatrated.

1) No Mk4 was destroyed by a Kornet. One Mk4 was destroyed by a huge IED but only 1 crew member was killed in that explosion.
2) Mk4 was the most widely used tank in that war and received most of the hits.

Later in Gaza Mk4 were attacked several times including by RPG-29 and Kornet. None was even seriously damaged.

 

[ptldM3]

I am a Turkish Jew, surprise ?

No I'm not surprised, nor do I care; you have Israeli flags and you suck up to Turks. You called me a salesman for Russian weapons, the fact is I'm a Russian Jew so why would I be surprised that you are Jewish when you have Israeli flags?

Your stereotyping backfired

The Merkava Mk. 1 has since been superseded by the more advanced Merkva Mk. 2, Mk. 3, and Mk. 4, which the IDF likes to call the best tank in the world. "There is no question that it is the best tank in existence, by every measure, because it was built to meet Israel's defense needs," says Matzliach, "It has outstanding ability to move through the rough terrain of the Golan Heights. It passes through boulders and rocks without trouble, faster than other tanks, with a 1,500-horsepower engine and fire power that can enables it to identify, locate, and destroy the enemy."

Dozens of Merkava tanks were damaged during the 2006 Second Lebanon War in the summer of 2006. Hezbollah squads armed with Metis and Coronet antitank missiles ambushed IDF armored forced and caused losses. "A bloody experience?" says Matzliach angrily. "Merkava tanks proved in these clashes a higher survivability compared with other wars, especially the Merkava Mk. 4. In the Yom Kippur War, 60% of missiles that hit tanks caused serious damage, whereas in the Second Lebanon War, 60% of missiles that hit Merkavas of all versions caused no serious damage. In fact, 90% of the tanks hit from missiles in the Second Lebanon War were returned to operational service."

Except top attack M-60 T SABRA has comparable protection of Merkava Mk4. I won't mention Trophy

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-merkava-tank-battle-for-exports-deals-1000920477

First off, I'm not denying that Merkavas are good tanks. You are obviously fired up and upset that I stated facts about the Merkava being destroyed and disabled in combat.


Your source stated that 60% of Merkavas had no serious damage. That means 40% were seriously damaged. Hezballah not only used Kornets and RPG-29s but a lot of older inferior RPGs and ATGMs, all Merkavas penatrated were done so with Kornets and RPG-29s, Merkavas that were not penatrated were hit with inferior ATGMs and RPGs.

Moreover, I'm sure many Merkavas that received light damage just got lucky by pure chance. Such as poorly placed shots on the tracks, machine gun, and simply 'glancing blows'. At the end of the day 15 Merkavas were penatrated.

 

[XY1234]

I be surprised that you are Jewish when you have Israeli flags?

And your Jordan and Russian flags ? That's the greatest comedy. Jew from Russia in Jordan.

In Israel almost 500000 ethnic Turkish Jews are living.

 

[warfareknow]

In Israel almost 500000 ethnic Turkish Jews are living.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Jews_in_Israel

Just saying..

 

[C130]

Same angle:

damn that is one sexy tank now. very thick and angled armor now not surprised it survived a Kornet hit especially if it hit at the perfect angle to deflect the jet to the side

 

[ptldM3]

Difference between 1300 mm and 1200 mm is is just 8%. Thats statistical variation for any penetration.

4 inches is a big difference. I have sources on my side you have nothing but opinions which is worth less then toilet paper. The manufacturer of the Kornet gives 2 differnt figures for two variants of the Kornet.

The penetration figures are averaged out, there is obviously a standard deviation. With your logic I can take any figures for Israeli weapons and simply do what you do---deny the authenticity. Pathetic.

As noted here Indian MiG-29 is not inferior at all. Indian Su-30MKI is superior to Russian Su-30SM.

The Indian Mig-29 that an Indian member mentioned had some wester avionics, Russia did not provide that




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29


Initial production version; entered service in 1983. NATO reporting name is "Fulcrum-A". 9.12A is the downgraded export version for Warsaw Pact while the 9.12B is the downgraded export version for non-Warsaw Pact nations. It lacks a nuclear weapon delivery system and has initial production radar, ECM and IFF (no ECM and IFF in 9.12B).



Quick, start calling the source a lie. As to for the SU-30SM being inferior to the MKI.....prove it. Most avionics on the MKI are Russian, the ones that are not such as navigation, HUD and targeting pod do next to nothing in helping the MKI win in air-to-air.

I know that page and I know Fofanov, I've communicated with him 15 years ago. I remember well he admitted once that this test is a myth. Thats why I am saying that with confidence.

Of course a reputable guy, which is one of the authorities on Soviet and Russian tanks decides to make a "hoax" and he personally tells you


I notice a pattern with you. Every source that is presented to you is a lie, it does not matter if 10 other sources caraberate the same story. If you don't like something it is automatically a lie.

1) No Mk4 was destroyed by a Kornet. One Mk4 was destroyed by a huge IED but only 1 crew member was killed in that explosion.

Everybody is just a liar except you, the next two sources, one a 184 page academic article and an Israeli Lieutenant colonel are lying when they say a MK4 was destroyed by a cornet, right?



http://csis.org/files/publication/120720_Cordesman_LessonsIsraeliHezbollah.pdf




Two of the eight Merkava 4s were knocked out of commission and their commander was mortally wounded [when] caught inthe sights of long-range, Russian-made, Syrian-supplied, laser- beamed, self-propelled Kornet anti-tank missiles





by Lt. Col David Eshel (retired)

from Tank Magazine December 2006


As the tanks started moving downhill into the Wadi, two tanks of the leading company were immediately hit, one of the tank commanders mortally wounded, caught in the sights of scores of Kornet anti-tank missiles with their lethal tandem laser-beam warheads penetrating the advanced armour of the Merkava Mk 4.