Turkish Geopolitics/ Foreign Affairs

[kartal1]

It's like I'm reading a far right piece of mind in Europe...

I am talking like a man who had hope and totally lost it after he saw their situation from close. I can only pray for the women, the children and the weak but I can't be as merciful as Allah which is merciful even towards the ones which back off from a fight in the name of Allah even if they are not ill, weak or have any valid reason for backing off. I would raise their children, would look after their wives and look after the weak but I can not forgive the healthy ones who backed off and especially if they are a burden to Turkey.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I am talking like a man who had hope and totally lost it after he saw their situation from close. I can only pray for the women, the children and the weak but I can't be as merciful as Allah which is merciful even towards the ones which back off from a fight in the name of Allah even if they are not ill, weak or have any valid reason for backing off. I would raise their children, would look after their wives and look after the weak but I can not forgive the healthy ones who backed off and especially if they are a burden to Turkey.

It's always nice to speak when you are behind a screen and good at home... where you didn't feel hunger to the point of death... you didn't see death day and night... those who you cherish dying in front of you and so on...
Even During our prophet time... companions fled the battlefield when they were in front of death... go say that to them...

 

[kartal1]

It's always nice to speak when you are behind a screen and good at home... where you didn't feel hunger to the point of death... you didn't see death day and night... those who cherish dying in front of you and so on...

Ahrar Al Sham are also people and are feeling hunger and see their friends martyrs every day. Are they not humans enough to smoke nargile or go to the beach like a normal men? The difference is that the ones took the choice to go on the beach of Izmir while the others to fight for the beach of Latakia so they can go there as proud Syrians who fought a terrorist regime together with their children one day.

If you are talking about me I haven't for now but I am ready in the second I am needed. The situation is different for me. I have the luxury to run from service for the State and nobody could call me but I made the choice not to run but to approach them myself. Everything have its time and place and the time have not came for me still. Now for me the only obligatory hunger is that of Ramadan.

I didn't see how my comrade is falling next to me but I have seen a remembering ceremony of a martyr, a Turkish flag on the window of a martyr's house and how young soldiers are going to their military service like they are going on a wedding. Some of them to Istanbul, some of them to Ankara but also some of them to Sirnak. Every nation saw these things in order to win the right to exist including yours.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

I am talking like a man who had hope and totally lost it after he saw their situation from close. I can only pray for the women, the children and the weak but I can't be as merciful as Allah which is merciful even towards the ones which back off from a fight in the name of Allah even if they are not ill, weak or have any valid reason for backing off. I would raise their children, would look after their wives and look after the weak but I can not forgive the healthy ones who backed off and especially if they are a burden to Turkey.

Who are they supposed to fight for, which leadership represents them? The thugs and monkeys in Idlib certainly don't.

Turks in Europe are paying 10.000 euro's to avoid conscription or shorten it to a month whilst the fight in Turkey is one with a clear cause, organized against a clear enemy to their nation (PKK). But also they prefer to let some other poor fucker in Turkey die instead. I grew up with them nationalists but in reality they also avoid the frontlines, they rather have others die for them. Which you also prefer.

This is how humans are, and no nationalist speech will change that. Syria is a proxy war and there's no point in joining that until recently as things have become more clear, now the only side that benefits them is joining the SAA to trash the remaining foreign elements.

 

[CAN_TR]

Who are they supposed to fight for, which leadership represents them? The thugs and monkeys in Idlib certainly don't.

In Turkey they raise the flag of FSA...

 

[kartal1]

Who are they supposed to fight for, which leadership represents them? The thugs and monkeys in Idlib certainly don't.

Turks in Europe are paying 10.000 euro's to avoid conscription or shorten it to a month whilst the fight in Turkey is one with a clear cause, organized against a clear enemy to their nation (PKK). But also they prefer to let some other poor fucker in Turkey die instead. I grew up with them nationalists but in reality they also avoid the frontlines, they rather have others die for them. Which you also prefer.

This is how humans are, and no nationalist speech will change that. Syria is a proxy war and there's no point in joining that until recently as things have become more clear, now the only side that benefits them is joining the SAA to trash the remaining foreign elements.

You don't know about Turkish culture. There are places that if you didn't completed military service they will not take you to work and that was also the case with my close friend. For me a man which didn't do military service without a serious reason is traitor. Turkey don't have any problem regarding military personnel other than pilots because of the situation with FETO while in Syria the situation is different.

About your first sentence. There are international representatives of the Syrian opposition which are representing some of the groups in Idlib. To say that they were not oppressed is open lie. Assad is not an angel. They must go there and secure the safety of Idlib and support the political initiative of the opposition. To bad that because of multiple reason Idlib is now represented by majority terrorists and not the people which have to represent it. Some 200.000 opposition fighters would not be bad but you see... They prefer Antalya to Latakia.

 

[HannibalBarca]

You don't know about Turkish culture. There are places that if you didn't completed military service they will not take you to work and that was also the case with my close friend. For me a man which didn't do military service without a serious reason is traitor. Turkey don't have any problem regarding military personnel other than pilots because of the situation with FETO while in Syria the situation is different.

About your first sentence. There are international representatives of the Syrian opposition which are representing some of the groups in Idlib. To say that they were not oppressed is open lie. Assad is not an angel. They must go there and secure the safety of Idlib and support the political initiative of the opposition. To bad that because of multiple reason Idlib is now represented by majority terrorists and not the people which have to represent it. Some 200.000 opposition fighters would not be bad but you see... They prefer Antalya to Latakia.

Well isn't good for you then? at least they aren't going to grow the ranks of the "Terrorist" groups.
Therefore since Idlib is "Terro" Ground... better let them die... With everything that goes with it.

 

[kartal1]

Well isn't good for you then? at least they aren't going to grow the ranks of the "Terrorist" groups.
Therefore since Idlib is "Terro" Ground... better let them die... With everything that goes with it.

There are groups which are far from terrorists like I said Ahrar Al Sham for example. Or groups under the National Army but certainly not HTS.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

You don't know about Turkish culture. There are places that if you didn't completed military service they will not take you to work and that was also the case with my close friend. For me a man which didn't do military service without a serious reason is traitor. Turkey don't have any problem regarding military personnel other than pilots because of the situation with FETO while in Syria the situation is different.

About your first sentence. There are international representatives of the Syrian opposition which are representing some of the groups in Idlib. To say that they were not oppressed is open lie. Assad is not an angel. They must go there and secure the safety of Idlib and support the political initiative of the opposition. To bad that because of multiple reason Idlib is now represented by majority terrorists and not the people which have to represent it. Some 200.000 opposition fighters would not be bad but you see... They prefer Antalya to Latakia.

Yes I do know

The military service in Turkey is bought off by many to shorten it and they do not see combat, most conscripts are not physically fit and what they go through isn't exactly that special. I do not know what this military service bragging is about, we're from the middle east a region full of wars. I have male family members whom were involved in 2 major wars, actual conventional wars (Iran and the Gulf war) neither just training or running after PKK in caves. I am telling you, this conscription in Turkey is nothing compared to being deployed in a conventional war, neither comparable to being deployed in one of those tents in PKK inhabited area, either they're lucky and don't get ambushed or they're not so lucky. Though they don't have to fight themselves through cities of urban warfare or face a certain death as in some current and previous regional wars. You seem to forget all of that, the war against IS was a heavy one with Mosul battle being called the heaviest urban battle since WW2 by American generals. But we Arabs are the cowards right.

If I was Syrian I wouldn't waste my life to be a dog of Erdogan's project in Idlib. As for the Antalya Syrians, they are lazy people in every society. People tend to focus on the bad everywhere

 

[HannibalBarca]

There are groups which are far from terrorists like I said Ahrar Al Sham for example. Or groups under the National Army but certainly not HTS.

In Idlib those two have no power... They are mostly under TR supervisions.
HTS Rule the entirety of Idlib since months and months
But as we saw in the past week, they preferred to join HTS operation room to fight ASSad offensive.
Even TFSA groups are in route for support.

 

[kartal1]

Yes I do know

The military service in Turkey is bought off by many to shorten it and they do not see combat, most conscripts are not physically fit and what they go through isn't exactly that special. I do not know what this military service bragging is about, we're from the middle east a region full of wars. I have male family members whom were involved in 2 major wars, actual conventional wars (Iran and the Gulf war) neither just training or running after PKK in caves. I am telling you, this conscription in Turkey is nothing compared to being deployed in a conventional war, neither comparable to being deployed in one of those tents in PKK inhabited area, either they're lucky and don't get ambushed or they're not so lucky. Though they don't have to fight themselves through cities of urban warfare or face a certain death as in some current and previous regional wars. You seem to forget all of that, the war against IS was a heavy one with Mosul battle being called the heaviest urban battle since WW2 by American generals. But we Arabs are the cowards right.

If I was Syrian I wouldn't waste my life to be a dog of Erdogan's project in Idlib. As for the Antalya Syrians, they are lazy people in every society. People tend to focus on the bad everywhere

I can assure you that no conventional military power in the region can face the Turkish Armed Forces except Iran. Take together both with military conscripts and professional soldiers.

In Idlib those two have no power... They are mostly under TR supervisions.
HTS Rule the entirety of Idlib since months and months
But as we saw in the past week, they preferred to join HTS operation room to fight ASSad offensive.
Even TFSA groups are in route for support.

No they have a lot of power. If anyone opens operation against HTS from outside it will be the same effect like Assad opening operation against Idlib. A humanitarian catastrophe. The TFSA groups are there because of the violation of agreements. HTS is still on Turkey's terror list and the official Al Qaeda branch in Syria is still under their control. If Ahrar wants to survive it must obey to HTS. I don't like that. If we managed to bring 200.000 fighters from military programs among the refugees HTS would not be a theme for our talk. They are no more than thugs sabotaging every intention for stability and peace. Make them behead the Al Qaeda related groups in the middle of Idlib and broadcast it with a fancy video without making alliance with anybody an I would believe them. For me right now they are the Saudi trojan hourse sabotaging the peace of course together with the other one and that is SAA and their ridiculous chain of command.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

I can assure you that no conventional military power in the region can face the Turkish Armed Forces except Iran. Take together both with military conscripts and professional soldiers.

This is not even the point. Also unlike the US, neither Iran, Turkey nor Egypt wield a massive capability and difference in military strength to do what the US has been doing in the region since 1991.

You underestimate other countries when you see US military capabilities, Greece (Cyprus that is not even Greece) is comparable to Saddam taking Kuwait. You're drowning in nationalism, conscription is a joke compared to actual conventional war. I personally without bragging am physically stronger than most conscripts and those around me, I could pass that easily what's the big deal with it?

Look at the Iran-Iraq war, a country armed with F-14's (AIM-54 Exocet) took 2 years, till 1982 to put Iraq in a situation where they asked for a ceasefire, this was before world support reigned in for Saddam. And that's conventional warfare during a time when Turkey was weaker than both of these countries economically and militarily. Yet you believe in the fairytale that you can overrun Egypt let's say. This is because the forum is packed with call of duty, and conscripts who held a rifle for a few months and now consider themselves strategists and experts.

Turkish tanks deployed in Syria saw losses due to ATGM's and that's in a minor small battle, yet you believe a major conventional war will be a piece of cake for you.

Syrians will return to Syria once Erdogan says he's an idiot, restores ties with Assad and start cooperating on rebuilding Syria instead of trying to carve out his Islamist shithole.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I can assure you that no conventional military power in the region can face the Turkish Armed Forces except Iran. Take together both with military conscripts and professional soldiers.

No they have a lot of power. If anyone opens operation against HTS from outside it will be the same effect like Assad opening operation against Idlib. A humanitarian catastrophe. The TFSA groups are there because of the violation of agreements. HTS is still on Turkey's terror list and the official Al Qaeda branch in Syria is still under their control. If Ahrar wants to survive it must obey to HTS. I don't like that. If we managed to bring 200.000 fighters from military programs among the refugees HTS would not be a theme for our talk. They are no more than thugs sabotaging every intention for stability and peace. Make them behead the Al Qaeda related groups in the middle of Idlib and broadcast it with a fancy video without making alliance with anybody an I would believe them. For me right now they are the Saudi trojan hourse sabotaging the peace of course together with the other one and that is SAA and their ridiculous chain of command.

No group rival HTS experience ...none. Whatever it's ahrar...TFSA or else... They are at the Top for a reason...
Among Rebels they are the most Trained...Battle hardened soldiers in the entire area...
Few months trained newbies will do nothing by themselves...

That's why HTS was never "challenged" by newly formed groups... it will be ugly in both sides... Just look what they can do against ASSad+IR+RU COMBINED... do you really think some refugees who mostly never hold a gun with lambda to mediocre physic gonna change something in few months training with no combat experience??

TR needs Idlib and the North... ASSad+IR+RU want it... Therefore tension will occur...

HTS is not AQ anymore and that for a long time... as for the "Terro list"... please keep that away... it means nothing in a war of influence... the US got their List and yet...PKK flourish... They even back in the days gave Direct weapons to those same AQ related groups...
RU got theirs too... With the biggest Terro... by the name of ASSad...but also an international terro group named...
" Hezbollah"...

 

[kartal1]

This is not even the point. Also unlike the US, neither Iran, Turkey nor Egypt wield a massive capability and difference in military strength to do what the US has been doing in the region since 1991.

You underestimate other countries when you see US military capabilities, Greece (Cyprus that is not even Greece) is comparable to Saddam taking Kuwait. You're drowning in nationalism, conscription is a joke compared to actual conventional war. I personally without bragging am physically stronger than most conscripts and those around me, I could pass that easily what's the big deal with it?

Look at the Iran-Iraq war, a country armed with F-14's (AIM-54 Exocet) took 2 years, till 1982 to put Iraq in a situation where they asked for a ceasefire, this was before world support reigned in for Saddam. And that's conventional warfare during a time when Turkey was weaker than both of these countries economically and militarily. Yet you believe in the fairytale that you can overrun Egypt let's say. This is because the forum is packed with call of duty, and conscripts who held a rifle for a few months and now consider themselves strategists and experts.

Turkish tanks deployed in Syria saw losses due to ATGM's and that's in a minor small battle, yet you believe a major conventional war will be a piece of cake for you.

Syrians will return to Syria once Erdogan says he's an idiot, restores ties with Assad and start cooperating on rebuilding Syria instead of trying to carve out his Islamist shithole.

The Operation ES was conducted without the half of the high military commanders without almost none proper preparation in a moment that was the worst in Turkey's recent history. Almost without air power fvcking up US dreams and jamming Russian air defense equipment in the same time. Interesting to hear that from a guy who's country doesn't have proper control over 60% of the country and is relying onto Iranian proxy militias.

I would talk about operation Olive Branch which demonstrated the usage of technological capabilities like dummy tanks and suicide drones which small entity of the world have the capability to use and also our special forces and commando units which also went viral after foreign SDF fighters expressed their fears publicly. Our losses were also minimal. Our military intelligence part of the Special Forces Command was also a pearl in the ocean which not much was talked about. I can't create another Mosul and also I don't want to create one. Our soldiers first must leave our weapons behind and run so it happens that way.

Conventional war is not easy but you want to compare Turkey to Egypt? What is so special about Egypt? They can't face us not in the air, not in the sea could do resistance in the land tough. There is a reason for that Turkish soldiers everywhere they get under UN or NATO international missions are given tasks about training the local forces. Today's wars are wars of professional soldiers not of conscripts but if needed I am also sure that the conscripts will do whatever they have to do.

While Turkey is experienced country when it comes both to conventional and guerilla warfare with what is Greece experienced? With what is Egypt experienced?

Tiny Israel managed to beat all Arab countries to the point they yield. We are not talking about invasion like in Lord of the Rings we are talking about technological superiority and patriotism. We have very close capabilities to that of Israel and if they do it we can also do it. Let alone that we are not step back in terms of patriotism.

Where in the region you will get more experienced air forces then TuAF? War is not piece of cake but you are talking about Turkey here.

We are adding more and more technology every day and we are superior to the regional powers equipment in almost every aspect. With every day there is improvement of the training of the professional units within the Turkish Armed Forces. When you talk about courage you can see the night of 15th July. If some people paid 10.000 euro to not serve there were people who went on the streets that night and showed what sacrifice means because nobody went on the streets thinking that everything will be all right tomorrow.

Turkey is a country with deep military tradition. A country which is famous with its nationalist and emotional people. I don't think a lot of nations can compare to the Turkish one in that criteria and I say it again. No military power can face Turkey other than Iran in conventional warfare. Oh lets add Israel to that list. It's not a piece of cake but if needed we can.

No group rival HTS experience ...none. Whatever it's ahrar...TFSA or else... They are at the Top for a reason...
Among Rebels they are the most Trained...Battle hardened soldiers in the entire area...
Few months trained newbies will do nothing by themselves...

That's why HTS was never "challenged" by newly formed groups... it will be ugly in both sides... Just look what they can do against ASSad+IR+RU COMBINED... do you really think some refugees who mostly never hold a gun with lambda to mediocre physic gonna change something in few months training with no combat experience??

TR needs Idlib and the North... ASSad+IR+RU want it... Therefore tension will occur...

HTS is not AQ anymore and that for a long time... as for the "Terro list"... please keep that away... it means nothing in a war of influence...

When you want to be internationally recognized it means. It is in Turkey's, US and also Russia's terror lists. Idlib will be shithole as long as they are there. This is fact. Sorry. I sorry more because there are cowards in Turkey which must get home.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The Operation ES was conducted without the half of the high military commanders without almost none proper preparation in a moment that was the worst in Turkey's recent history. Almost without air power fvcking up US dreams and jamming Russian air defense equipment in the same time. Interesting to hear that from a guy who's country doesn't have proper control over 60% of the country and is relying onto Iranian proxy militias.

I would talk about operation Olive Branch which demonstrated the usage of technological capabilities like dummy tanks and suicide drones which small entity of the world have the capability to use and also our special forces and commando units which also went viral after foreign SDF fighters expressed their fears publicly. Our losses were also minimal. Our military intelligence part of the Special Forces Command was also a pearl in the ocean which not much was talked about. I can't create another Mosul and also I don't want to create one. Our soldiers first must leave our weapons behind and run so it happens that way.

Conventional war is not easy but you want to compare Turkey to Egypt? What is so special about Egypt? They can't face us not in the air, not in the sea could do resistance in the land tough. There is a reason for that Turkish soldiers everywhere they get under UN or NATO international missions are given tasks about training the local forces. Today's wars are wars of professional soldiers not of conscripts but if needed I am also sure that the conscripts will do whatever they have to do.

While Turkey is experienced country when it comes both to conventional and guerilla warfare with what is Greece experienced? With what is Egypt experienced?

Tiny Israel managed to beat all Arab countries to the point they yield. We are not talking about invasion like in Lord of the Rings we are talking about technological superiority and patriotism. We have very close capabilities to that of Israel and if they do it we can also do it. Let alone that we are not step back in terms of patriotism.

Where in the region you will get more experienced air forces then TuAF? War is not piece of cake but you are talking about Turkey here.

We are adding more and more technology every day and we are superior to the regional powers equipment in almost every aspect. With every day there is improvement of the training of the professional units within the Turkish Armed Forces. When you talk about courage you can see the night of 15th July. If some people paid 10.000 euro to not serve there were people who went on the streets that night and showed what sacrifice means because nobody went on the streets thinking that everything will be all right tomorrow.

Turkey is a country with deep military tradition. A country which is famous with its nationalist and emotional people. I don't think a lot of nations can compare to the Turkish one in that criteria and I say it again. No military power can face Turkey other than Iran in conventional warfare. Oh lets add Israel to that list. It's not a piece of cake but if needed we can.

When you want to be internationally recognized it means. It is in Turkey's, US and also Russia's terror lists. Idlib will be shithole as long as they are there. This is fact. Sorry. I sorry more because there are cowards in Turkey which must get home.

They will be no Idlib without them...
And all the "refugees must go back program" will be no more...
Without them... you will still got PKK affiliated at your Border... Since ASSad will have been there already;..and therefore no "TR operation"...
Without them... you will get 3 more Millions of refugees in TR...
And so on...

As for the Terro list... Hezbllah and PKK are on it too... And yet... BOth are working HAND in HAND with the same guys that put them on the list...
Why you may ask? Because Countries don't give a f*ck about X or Y...as long as X or Y can fulfill their strategy...