Turkish court announces Ergenekon verdicts, ex-army chief gets life

[BronzePlaque]

 

[Mosamania]

Turkish Citizenship Law, Article 7: Children who are born to a Turkish mother or a Turkish father (in or out of marriage) are Turkish citizens from birth.

Turkish Citizenship Law

She doesn't have a Turkish citizenship, my great grandfather did. And through some loops and fortune and God knows what else my mother's side of the family has like brothers with different nationalities.

 

[-SINAN-]

Note, please don't tell anyone.

She doesn't have a Turkish citizenship, my great grandfather did. And through some loops and fortune and God knows what else my mother's side of the family has like brothers with different nationalities.

Hmm, i think you should have to consult a lawyer in this issue.

 

[T-123456]

She doesn't have a Turkish citizenship, my great grandfather did. And through some loops and fortune and God knows what else my mother's side of the family has like brothers with different nationalities.

That actualy is very interesting,they stayed in contact all these years and kept the familly intact.
If you look at the distance between both countries(in those days hard to keep in touch).
Could be a familly story.

 

[liontk]

@Neptune, I am somewhat disappointed in your stance mon ami, how can you support a military general who attempted to install a coup on your nation, while I am not particularly fond of Prime minister Erdogan and his religious undertone directed policies, he represents the mandate of your nation at the end of the day. @olcayto, It seems like your view is in the minority on this forum, but my question is given the opposition's protest, is Turkey really ready to be in EU given the lack of respect for western ideals and democratic principles, which are being exhibited from the opposition.

 

[Neptune]

@liontk But c'mon mon frère. I do really respect your overall opinions about Turkey. But there's noway for those countrymen of ours to attempt a coup against them. Since from the beginning of this case, during my teenage years. I watched this case step by step. But you can be sure about that. They're innocent. I met people whom had the honor of knowing some of that writers personally. Mate, It's not only the army That had falled. The court also sentenced many writers, journalists...etc. Also they sentenced the former Chief of Special Operations Division of Police, and the former Chief of Office of Counter-smuggling and organised crimes-Istanbul. See it's about only our military. They took and still do take the good people from our Military, Police, Dep. of Justice, Media...etc. Why? Because he wants to control everything. He already cleared the Justice and the Police, also the media. Now he's trying the last stronghold and the role protector of Atatürk's reforms and secularism...the Turkish Armed Forces.

From my personal experience, my father's a former police chief (he too had to leave because of them). He knew that two police chiefs that were also arrested under that case. From his sayings; they were wonderful people full of love to country. And he heard that they were trying to clean out the cops that were working for jemaat a.k.a the gov't. Mate, there's a massive power that Erdogan has over the media. So I do recommend you not to believe everything you read about Turkey.

 

[LegionnairE]

Yep,'cause that's what Europe wants,an 80 million, military advanced ,radicalisedcountry next to its borders
How the fudge is this NATO's or EU fault when you guys keep voting for Erdogan i will never understand.You're starting to sound like some arabs "it's always an international plot,never out fault".

Bullshit I didn't say that, I said if Turkey splits like Iraq it'd work out well for Europe.

as for speculating a members' gender thingy happening tenth time in the forum, mosa doesn't know jack about military doctrine or equipment so he can be a she or it doesn't matter

AND I just realized, two of things I most hate actually rhymes Peace and Police
http://youtu.be/WiX7GTelTPM

it says in the badge "to serve the people and to enforce justice" it's all a bunch of bullcrap, police is practically the kapikulu of AKP

 

[liontk]

@liontk But c'mon mon frère. I do really respect your overall opinions about Turkey. But there's noway for those countrymen of ours to attempt a coup against them. Since from the beginning of this case, during my teenage years. I watched this case step by step. But you can be sure about that. They're innocent. I met people whom had the honor of knowing some of that writers personally. Mate, It's not only the army That had falled. The court also sentenced many writers, journalists...etc. Also they sentenced the former Chief of Special Operations Division of Police, and the former Chief of Office of Counter-smuggling and organised crimes-Istanbul. See it's about only our military. They took and still do take the good people from our Military, Police, Dep. of Justice, Media...etc. Why? Because he wants to control everything. He already cleared the Justice and the Police, also the media. Now he's trying the last stronghold and the role protector of Atatürk's reforms and secularism...the Turkish Armed Forces.

From my personal experience, my father's a former police chief (he too had to leave because of them). He knew that two police chiefs that were also arrested under that case. From his sayings; they were wonderful people full of love to country. And he heard that they were trying to clean out the cops that were working for jemaat a.k.a the gov't. Mate, there's a massive power that Erdogan has over the media. So I do recommend you not to believe everything you read about Turkey.

mon ami @Neptune, I know this is very personal to you and I apologize if I was being inconsiderate as far as the opposition view are concern but Turkey is part of NATO and thus should adhere to similar values and beliefs that the other member country adhere to including the democratic system and the mandate of the people that must be respected. I could see where you are coming from as far as the whole scenario being turned into a witch hunt for political gains but according to my readings, the last coup on a democratic government was in 1998 so there could be some paranoia in the civil government and once again I am not defending your government nor do I endorse religious bigotry. However we have to draw the line somewhere and I respect your governments decision to charge the former chief and letting the courts decide whether he was guilty or not.

I am sorry even though this is personal to you but the turkish courts have found the general guilty, I mean there is nothing you can do once the courts have given their verdict unless you do not have faith in your system. I mean sometimes I disagree myself on some rulings given by supreme court but there is nothing I can do but have faith in my system and the constitution.

 

[Neptune]

@LegionnairE is that Hursit TOLON in you avatar or..?

 

[mahatir]

mon ami @Neptune, I know this is very personal to you and I apologize if I was being inconsiderate as far as the opposition view are concern but Turkey is part of NATO and thus should adhere to similar values and beliefs that the other member country adhere to including the democratic system and the mandate of the people that must be respected. I could see where you are coming from as far as the whole scenario being turned into a witch hunt for political gains but according to my readings, the last coup on a democratic government was in 1998 so there could be some paranoia in the civil government and once again I am not defending your government nor do I endorse religious bigotry. However we have to draw the line somewhere and I respect your governments decision to charge the former chief and letting the courts decide whether he was guilty or not.

I am sorry even though this is personal to you but the turkish courts have found the general guilty, I mean there is nothing you can do once the courts have given their verdict unless you do not have faith in your system. I mean sometimes I disagree myself on some rulings given by supreme court but there is nothing I can do but have faith in my system and the constitution.

democracy is a great thing , but the problem is with religion that ruins democracy , especially political Islam which has its own ideology that is completely opposite to Democracy and Human rights.

Erdo , Gulen gangs and all these Turkish Islamist will eventually ruin Turkey by pursing their agenda to implement Arab Islamism on the Turkish people which will not work , Turkey cannot become like other Arab countries, it will never work out for them.

@liontk But c'mon mon frère. I do really respect your overall opinions about Turkey. But there's noway for those countrymen of ours to attempt a coup against them. Since from the beginning of this case, during my teenage years. I watched this case step by step. But you can be sure about that. They're innocent. I met people whom had the honor of knowing some of that writers personally. Mate, It's not only the army That had falled. The court also sentenced many writers, journalists...etc. Also they sentenced the former Chief of Special Operations Division of Police, and the former Chief of Office of Counter-smuggling and organised crimes-Istanbul. See it's about only our military. They took and still do take the good people from our Military, Police, Dep. of Justice, Media...etc. Why? Because he wants to control everything. He already cleared the Justice and the Police, also the media. Now he's trying the last stronghold and the role protector of Atatürk's reforms and secularism...the Turkish Armed Forces.

From my personal experience, my father's a former police chief (he too had to leave because of them). He knew that two police chiefs that were also arrested under that case. From his sayings; they were wonderful people full of love to country. And he heard that they were trying to clean out the cops that were working for jemaat a.k.a the gov't. Mate, there's a massive power that Erdogan has over the media. So I do recommend you not to believe everything you read about Turkey.

Erdo is killing Turkish Identity and nationalism in the name of religion , he is trying to unite kurds and Turks through creating some sort of an islamic identity that will unite both ethnic groups but at the expense of secularism and Turkish Identity .

 

[liontk]

democracy is a great thing , but the problem is with religion that ruins democracy , especially political Islam which has its own ideology that is completely opposite to Democracy and Human rights.

Erdo , Gulen gangs and all these Turkish Islamist will eventually ruin Turkey by pursing their agenda to implement Arab Islamism on the Turkish people which will not work , Turkey cannot become like other Arab countries, it will never work out for them.



Erdo is killing Turkish Identity and nationalism in the name of religion , he is trying to unite kurds and Turks through creating some sort of an islamic identity that will unite both ethnic groups but at the expense of secularism and Turkish Identity .

Oh give me a break, the Canadienne liberals have spouting this crap for the decade on how Conservatives have this secret agenda where Canada will be a religious fascist state by the end of their mandate. Three successive governments later, Canada as a country has not become a religious totalitarian state though at the same time we have made some great social strides as far as family values,economic benefits and more focus on families which the previous liberal government did not given 2 cent about. Yet the liberals still keep telling us about this secret agenda that the Conservative have in store for us, so in your case unless there is a better alternative out there, the people are going to vote for economic, social and other indicators but this so called boogymen agenda crap does not work anymore.

While I do notice some religious overtones in your prime minister's speeches from the ones I have seen on CNN, if you can prove that he has a secret agenda then do so under the court of law, until then it is a amateur allegation against him. I am sorry if I was rude at any point but I am seriously tired of liberals bringing this agenda thing up because the conservative folks including I are not this backward monster that the media makes us out to be. As far as his policies are concerned, I do not have deep knowledge on local turkish politique so I cannot comment but what I do know is based on the facts, the Turkish general was found guilty under the rule of law and has been sentenced for life(rightly so).

Once again I am not supporting Erdogan's on a local level as I do not have complete knowledge but based on the facts, I do sympathize with him given the parallel as his party to some degree as is very similar to the Canadien conservatives and interestingly enough Erdogan also won three successive mandates based on economic success (coincidence much).

 

[Worf]

I don't understand some people. You want to know who is the supposed witness of this case?

I'll tell; he is Tuncay guney.

Go look him up. No one knows who is for sure.
First he was in the gulen movement, now he is saying he is jew.

 

[-SINAN-]

@Neptune, I am somewhat disappointed in your stance mon ami, how can you support a military general who attempted to install a coup on your nation, while I am not particularly fond of Prime minister Erdogan and his religious undertone directed policies, he represents the mandate of your nation at the end of the day. @olcayto, It seems like your view is in the minority on this forum, but my question is given the opposition's protest, is Turkey really ready to be in EU given the lack of respect for western ideals and democratic principles, which are being exhibited from the opposition.

Mate, there was a similar case called "Balyoz". Soldiers again accused for "Planning coup".

Verdict of the trial:

Three retired generals were sentenced to 20 years
78 defendants sentenced to 18 years
214 defendants sentenced to 16 years

You could say "Yes if they planned, they deserved it". So, let me to come to funny part. Court had a "anonymous witness", later on it's found that "anonymous witness" is "Şemdin Sakık". Former No:2 of the PKK terror organization.

It's same with this case, Secret witness, forged evidence, accepting evidences which can not be accepted as a evidence according to law, etc....

I don't know if they have planned a coup or not, but the way trial has been handled was very wrong.

 

[liontk]

Mate, there was a similar case called "Balyoz". Soldiers again accused for "Planning coup".

Verdict of the trial:

Three retired generals were sentenced to 20 years
78 defendants sentenced to 18 years
214 defendants sentenced to 16 years

You could say "Yes if they planned, they deserved it". So, let me to come to funny part. Court had a "anonymous witness", later on it's found that "anonymous witness" is "Şemdin Sakık". Former No:2 of the PKK terror organization.

It's same with this case, Secret witness, forged evidence, accepting evidences which can not be accepted as a evidence according to law, etc....

I don't know if they have planned a coup or not, but the way trial has been handed was very wrong.

thanks mon ami for the response, OH now I understand what @Neptune was trying to point out because I was thinking the judiciary being an independant branch would not be have any motive from this trial but the way you put this does make me think that they might be possibly in cahoots with the government. However that being said, there can a be a retrial done but we cannot simply disregard the judiciary's verdict as these folks are responsible for implementing the constitution and we must trust in their judgement. Again this is the most uncomfortable situation I have ever witnessed politically because the judiciary also appears to be in cahoots with the government that makes me think just how much power does monsieur Erdogan really wield ?

Also this is a small question on a side note, is the right wing in Turkey united similar to Canada because to me Turkey appears to be a left wing country like Canada but likewise here, Our right wings always vote for one party instead of voting for 12 different secularist parties and thus you get a majority even though only 45% nation only gave you the mandate lol. Correct me if I am wrong?, but I find this pretty hilarious ahahhaha.

 

[-SINAN-]

thanks mon ami for the response, OH now I understand what @Neptune was trying to point out because I was thinking the judiciary being an independant branch would not be have any motive from this trial but the way you put this does make me think that they might be possibly in cahoots with the government. However that being said, there can a be a retrial done but we cannot simply disregard the judiciary's verdict as these folks are responsible for implementing the constitution and we must trust in their judgement. Again this is the most uncomfortable situation I have ever witnessed politically because the judiciary also appears to be in cahoots with the government that makes me think just how much power does monsieur Erdogan really wield ?

Erdogan controls everything in Turkey, just name it. At the first time he came to power in Turkey, he had some issues with the jurisdiction system. So he changed the law, appointed his men and voila.

Also this is a small question on a side note, is the right wing in Turkey united similar to Canada because to me Turkey appears to be a left wing country like Canada but likewise here, Our right wings always vote for one party instead of voting for 12 different secularist parties and thus you get a majority even though only 45% nation only gave you the mandate lol. Correct me if I am wrong?, but I find this pretty hilarious ahahhaha.

IMO, Turkey never been a left wing country. But you have point, we don't have a united left. But the other parties in Turkey are worse than AKP (CHP, MHP), they can't even make a decent opposition, how can they rule if they get elected.