Turkish court announces Ergenekon verdicts, ex-army chief gets life

[Lure]

Fighting against PKK is surely his duty that's why he were sitting on the top chair of the army but trying to intervene into politics and to manage it with conspiracies is another story. Ok he fought against PKK let him do whatever he wants come onn he's an "ex-hero"!? Hell yeah noone is untouchable and everyone should know their place. A good step in name of democrasy. By the way @flamer84, why you are so worried mate?

Same Logic with Erdoğan,

Improving the economy and infrastructure is surely his duty why he is the prime minister of Turkey but trying to imprison the opposition with fake evidences and trials is another story. Ok he did some good things about economy than let him do whatever he wants come on he's "improving our economy"!? Hell yeah no one is untouchable and everyone should know their place. Worst step in the name of democracy. By the way, learn the spell "democracy" before mentioning it.

Turkey is a neighbour,NATO ally and important economic partner,i'll hate to see it going down the crapper,you know the catchphrase :"There goes the neighborhood!"
@olcayto I've meant the decision came quick after Egypt.With the current pressure Erdogan has on the media,opposition i have my doubts about future honest elections,'course this is my 2 cents.

Thanks for your support mate. Because of the NATO crap and the Greater Middle East Project of yours we are dealing with AKP and with the brainwashed, devoted Erdogan supporters. If you want to do us a favor please never support us anymore. Just forget Turkey. Think that it doesn't exist and never intervene. That would be the best support ever.

 

[Lure]

Well off course you can criticize Erdogan as much as you want.

But can İ ask you a question.

How would you like it if the romanian armed forces had political power in Romania, constantly threatening the government with a coup thus undermining democracy?
A armed force that all ready had certain plans in 2003 to commit a coup by bombing churches and creating a false flag against Bulgaria by downing their own fighter plane?

You will say this things forever in an infinite loop don't you? But telling the same crap all the time will not make the crap true and more believable. You are not even capable enough to understand what your opposition say aren't you? The people who oppose this doesn't buy this. They think all of your evidences are fake. They think the court, trial and everything was a set up. And they have very good reasons to think like that. Do you get it now? And why do you live in Netherlands? Come back to Turkey if you love Erdogan that much.

 

[olcayto]

You will say this things forever in an infinite loop don't you? But telling the same crap all the time will not make the crap true and more believable. You are not even capable enough to understand what your opposition say aren't you? The people who oppose this doesn't buy this. They think all of your evidences are fake. They think the court, trial and everything was a set up. And they have very good reasons to think like that. Do you get it now? And why do you live in Netherlands? Come back to Turkey if you love Erdogan that much.

The coup plans of 2003 were leaked by someone inside to radikal or taraf( don't know exactly).

The army itself admitted that those plans came from them, but that it was only "a exercise" or " what if " plan.
Now you tell me my so called "intelligent" friend who can't keep himself from attacking members personally.
What kind of army will ever make exercises on how to make a coup on their own government? İs this your idea of a democracy?

İ never moved from Turkey to begin with, so İ can not come back.
What İ can do my "intelligent" friend is to come to Turkey, which İ will be doing next year.

 

[Lure]

The coup plans of 2003 were leaked by someone inside to radikal or taraf( don't know exactly).

The army itself admitted that those plans came from them, but that it was only "a exercise" or " what if " plan.
Now you tell me my so called "intelligent" friend who can't keep himself from attacking members personally.
What kind of army will ever make exercises on how to make a coup on their own government? İs this your idea of a democracy?

İ never moved from Turkey to begin with, so İ can not come back.
What İ can do my "intelligent" friend is to come to Turkey, which İ will be doing next year.

First make your facts straight and than have an idea about what you're talking about then try to obtain an opinion will you? The news coverage was made in Taraf newspaper. Taraf newspaper declares itself as anti-Kemalist and anti-Militarist. Therefore it's not a kind of media that is known to be objective. A newspaper that barely sells 70.000 copies daily. When the coup plans were published it was much less.

Second no one told in the army that this is an "exercise" or "what if" plan. They said it was a "war game" (that is what is called in the military terminology) and the official statement was "the scenario was covering an external invasion simultaneously with an internal uprising". What kind of military play such "war games" in the World right? Let me give you a hint.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/largest-european-military-exercise-underway

"The scenarios employed will cover a broad range of circumstances including evolving crisis and conflict situations which cover disputed territory, and conventional and non-conventional maritime and amphibious threats such as counter-piracy and terrorist activity.
The scenarios will develop over 2 weeks, increasing in tension and uncertainty into simulated operations and potential state-on-state hostilities.
"

Made in you territory. I guess (with your logic) the Europeans expect state-on-state hostilities because of "disputed territory".

And also I will slap everyone's ignorance to it's face. No one should render an opinion without proper background information. It has consequences. Like public embarrassment.

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkey is a neighbour,NATO ally and important economic partner,i'll hate to see it going down the crapper,you know the catchphrase :"There goes the neighborhood!"
@olcayto I've meant the decision came quick after Egypt.With the current pressure Erdogan has on the media,opposition i have my doubts about future honest elections,'course this is my 2 cents.

If Turkey goes down and splits it'll work out just fine for EU. They will accept a smaller Turkey with less population into EU so that it won't threaten the power balance in the EU. If Turkey splits, EU will consume it. What's happening to Turkey is actually good news to you if you're German or French who wants the protestant anglo-saxon hegemony in EU to continue and keep expanding. If Turkey joins EU like this a major power shift's gonna happen.

And also I will slap everyone's ignorance to it's face. No one should render an opinion without proper background information. It has consequences. Like public embarrassment.

Kickazz dude

 

[olcayto]

First make your facts straight and than have an idea about what you're talking about then try to obtain an opinion will you? The news coverage was made in Taraf newspaper. Taraf newspaper declares itself as anti-Kemalist and anti-Militarist. Therefore it's not a kind of media that is known to be objective. A newspaper that barely sells 70.000 copies daily. When the coup plans were published it was much less.

Second no one told in the army that this is an "exercise" or "what if" plan. They said it was a "war game" (that is what is called in the military terminology) and the official statement was "the scenario was covering an external invasion simultaneously with an internal uprising". What kind of military play such "war games" in the World right? Let me give you a hint.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/largest-european-military-exercise-underway

"The scenarios employed will cover a broad range of circumstances including evolving crisis and conflict situations which cover disputed territory, and conventional and non-conventional maritime and amphibious threats such as counter-piracy and terrorist activity.
The scenarios will develop over 2 weeks, increasing in tension and uncertainty into simulated operations and potential state-on-state hostilities.
"

Made in you territory. I guess (with your logic) the Europeans expect state-on-state hostilities because of "disputed territory".

And also I will slap everyone's ignorance to it's face. No one should render an opinion without proper background information. It has consequences. Like public embarrassment.

İt doesn't matter which news agency published the sound record.
What does matter is that cetin dogan himself admitted that he was the person in the sound records.

Mate either your ignorant or blind. The truth is that they are discussing how to topple the current government.
İ asked you: what army in a modern democratic countries makes exercises on how to commit a coup.
You came with a freaking news which has absolutely nothing to do with a exercise to commit a coup. İ mean what the frick?

İ can understand your soreness. İ can also understand your worries.
But İ just don't give a damn. The mentality of the army, that just represents a portion of the Turkish population has to go.

You can slap whoever you want mate. İt's just that it is decreasing the quality of the discussion
Anyway, it was nice to have a discussion with you, although you hurt my feelings

 

[flamer84]

If Turkey goes down and splits it'll work out just fine for EU. They will accept a smaller Turkey with less population into EU so that it won't threaten the power balance in the EU. If Turkey splits, EU will consume it. What's happening to Turkey is actually good news to you if you're German or French who wants the protestant anglo-saxon hegemony in EU to continue and keep expanding. If Turkey joins EU like this a major power shift's gonna happen.

Kickazz dude

Yep,'cause that's what Europe wants,an 80 million, military advanced ,radicalisedcountry next to its borders
How the fudge is this NATO's or EU fault when you guys keep voting for Erdogan i will never understand.You're starting to sound like some arabs "it's always an international plot,never out fault".

 

[Worf]

I'm wondering whether there will be big protests at taksim square.

Lets see....

 

[livingdead]

life sentence is a bit too harsh, dont you think...

 

[-SINAN-]

Now our former military chief Gen. İlker Başbuğ branded as Terrorist leader, what does it makes our army, a terror organization ?

 

[Mosamania]

I'm wondering whether there will be big protests at taksim square.

Lets see....

I am in Taksim right now. It is normal today but let's see what tomorrow will bring.

 

[damm1t]

Improving the economy and infrastructure is surely his duty why he is the prime minister of Turkey but trying to imprison the opposition with fake evidences and trials is another story. Ok he did some good things about economy than let him do whatever he wants come on he's "improving our economy"!? Hell yeah no one is untouchable and everyone should know their place. Worst step in the name of democracy. By the way,learn the spell "democracy" before mentioning it.

Easy chimp, easy... or was it champ? Anyway, I pass over your English lessons, sorry mate.

 

[Lure]

İt doesn't matter which news agency published the sound record.
What does matter is that cetin dogan himself admitted that he was the person in the sound records.

Mate either your ignorant or blind. The truth is that they are discussing how to topple the current government.
İ asked you: what army in a modern democratic countries makes exercises on how to commit a coup.
You came with a freaking news which has absolutely nothing to do with a exercise to commit a coup. İ mean what the frick?

İ can understand your soreness. İ can also understand your worries.
But İ just don't give a damn. The mentality of the army, that just represents a portion of the Turkish population has to go.

You can slap whoever you want mate. İt's just that it is decreasing the quality of the discussion
Anyway, it was nice to have a discussion with you, although you hurt my feelings

Sorry mate, what I get from your reply is you don't understand a single word of what I write. Either it's a language problem or it's a more complicated problem like some genetic issues. Sorry for you. Please just read what I write again and try to absorb. Then you will understand what the link about Europe is for, and you will be able to distinguish a war game from a coup plan.

 

[T-123456]

I am in Taksim right now. It is normal today but let's see what tomorrow will bring.

Mosa,do you live there for study or work?

 

[kalu_miah]

Its good to see Turkish democracy getting more mature and Armed forces getting side lined. Armed forces job is to protect the country from external threats, not meddle or take part in internal politics. This is the biggest problem we have in many poor underdeveloped countries, including many Muslim majority countries, at least Turkey is moving away from this quagmire, thanks to AKP leaders.

And for Muslim countries, the non-Muslim world, specially the West, always seem to support the secular side, even if it means the secular anti-Islamist group gets to power with the help of the Armed forces. I believe this is because of inherent anti-Islam bias of Western powers. It seems other than Muslim masses themselves (not counting the secular dictators or conservative Monarchs and their relatively well to do supporters), no one wants to see "Islamist" or "Islamic leaning" people come to power using their naturally wide political support base.

Secular or any other minorities have to learn not to depend on Army, rather wait for the evolution of democratic institutions to gain their rights and privileges. That will be good for the evolution and maturing of democratic institution in Muslim majority countries.

So it could be safely said that the West is the biggest hindrance to development of democratic institutions in Muslim countries. Egypt is a perfect case in point and my own country Bangladesh is another. With last two elections, Pakistan seem to have broken out of the vicious cycle. Here is a list of Muslim majority countries and their democratic credentials:

Islamic democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are several non-governmental organizations that publish and maintain indices of freedom in the world, according to their own various definitions of the term, and rank countries as being free, partly free, or unfree using various measures of freedom, including political rights, economic rights, freedom of the press and civil liberties.

The following lists Muslim-majority countries and shows the scores given by two frequently used indices: Freedom in the World (2012) by the US-based Freedom House and the 2011 Democracy Index by the Economist Intelligence Unit. These indices are frequently used in Western media, but have attracted some criticism and may not reflect recent changes.

As of 2012, Indonesia is the only Muslim-majority nation acknowledged as democratic by both Freedom House and Economist democracy indexes.

Key: * - Electoral democracies ‡ - Disputed territory (according to Freedom House)

Location Democracy Index Score Democracy Index Rank Democracy Index Category Freedom in the World Status Type of government Religion and State
*Indonesia 6.76 53 Flawed democracy Free Presidential system Secular state, Islamic state (only in Aceh)
Malaysia 6.41 64 Flawed democracy Partly free Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy State religion
*Senegal 6.09 74 Flawed democracy Free Semi-presidential system Secular state
*Bangladesh 5.86 84 Hybrid regime Partly free Parliamentary republic State religion
*Turkey 5.76 88 Hybrid regime Partly free Parliamentary republic Secular state
*Albania 5.67 90 Hybrid regime Partly free Parliamentary republic Secular state
*Tunisia 5.67 90 Hybrid regime Partly free Semi-presidential system State religion
*Libya 5.15 95 Hybrid regime Partly free Parliamentary republic State religion
Mali 5.12 97 Hybrid regime Not free Semi-presidential system Secular state
Lebanon 5.05 99 Hybrid regime Partly free Confessionalist Parliamentary republic Secular state
‡Palestine (occupied by Israel) 4.80 103 Hybrid regime Not free Semi-presidential system Secular state (in West Bank), de-facto Islamic state (in Gaza Strip)
*Sierra Leone 4.71 104 Hybrid regime Free Presidential system Secular state
Kyrgyzstan 4.69 106 Hybrid regime Partly free Parliamentary republic Secular state
Pakistan 4.57 108 Hybrid regime Partly free Federalism, parliamentary republic State religion
Egypt 4.56 109 Hybrid regime Partly free Semi-presidential system State religion
Mauritania 4.17 110 Hybrid regime Not free Islamic republic, Semi-presidential system Islamic state
*Niger 4.16 111 Hybrid regime Partly free Semi-presidential system Secular state
Iraq 4.10 113 Hybrid regime Not free Parliamentary republic State religion
Morocco 4.07 115 Hybrid regime Partly free Constitutional monarchy State religion
Algeria 3.83 118 Authoritarian regime Not free Semi-presidential system State religion
Kuwait 3.78 119 Hybrid regime Partly free Constitutional monarchy State religion
Nigeria 3.77 120 Authoritarian regime Partly free Federalism, presidential system Secular state, Islamic state (only in the northern Nigerian states)
Jordan 3.76 121 Authoritarian regime Not free Constitutional monarchy State religion
Burkina Faso 3.52 127 Authoritarian regime Partly free Semi-presidential system Secular state
*Comoros 3.52 127 Authoritarian regime Partly free Presidential system, Federal republic State religion
The Gambia 3.31 134 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Secular state
Oman 3.26 135 Authoritarian regime Not free Absolute monarchy State religion
Qatar 3.18 138 Authoritarian regime Not free Absolute monarchy State religion
Azerbaijan 3.15 139 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Secular state
Yemen 3.12 140 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Islamic state
Kazakhstan 2.95 143 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Secular state
Guinea 2.79 146 Authoritarian regime Partly free Presidential system Secular state
Djibouti 2.74 147 Authoritarian regime Not free Semi-presidential system Secular state
United Arab Emirates 2.58 149 Authoritarian regime Not free Federalism, Constitutional monarchy State religion
Bahrain 2.53 150 Authoritarian regime Not free Constitutional monarchy State religion
Tajikistan 2.51 151 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Secular state
Afghanistan 2.48 152 Authoritarian regime Not free Islamic republic, Presidential system Islamic state
Sudan 2.38 154 Authoritarian regime Not free Federalism, presidential system Secular state (de jure), Islamic state (de facto)
Iran 1.98 158 Authoritarian regime Not free Islamic republic, Presidential system, Theocracy Islamic state
Turkmenistan 1.72 161 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system, single-party state Secular state
Uzbekistan 1.72 161 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Secular state
Saudi Arabia 1.71 163 Authoritarian regime Not free Islamic absolute monarchy Islamic state
Syria 1.63 164 Authoritarian regime Not free Semi-presidential system Secular state
Chad 1.62 165 Authoritarian regime Not free Presidential system Secular state
Brunei - - Authoritarian regime Not free Absolute monarchy State religion
Kosovo - - - Partly free Secular state
*Maldives - - - Partly free State religion
‡Northern Cyprus (Cyprus) - - - Free Secular state
Somalia Not free Federalism, Semi-presidential system State religion
‡Somaliland (Somalia) Partly free
‡Western Sahara (controlled by Morocco) - - - Not free -