Turkish constitutional referendum 2017 - News, Update & Discussion

[Śakra]

Yes.

But opposition wants to challenge the results since it was a very close contest (less than 2.5% difference)

So things are still pretty unclear

Opposite are always such poor losers

yes

Congrats!!

 

[Luffy 500]

Because of this post of yours.

My post just expressed in words what electoral map of turkey says in numbers & statistics. Mostly non-muslim turks (secularists, kemalist and liberal) voted NO according to this electoral map:
https://www.dailysabah.com/election/turkey-2017-referendum

 

[xenon54 out]

The Logic. Even in Saudi Arabia which is not secular state (Turkey) not everyone believes in God. But chuuut it's a secret...

But easily 90% in Turkey considers itself muslim and live with this identitity even when majority isnt really practising, so how do we determine whos muslim and who not?

My post just expressed in words what electoral map of turkey says in numbers & statistics. Mostly non-muslim turks (secularists, kemalist and liberal) voted NO according to this electoral map:
https://www.dailysabah.com/election/turkey-2017-referendum

Same question to you, how do you know kemalists are not muslims?

 

[Luffy 500]

Same question to you, how do you know kemalists are not muslims?

By what they publicly espouse and say and how they historically ruled turkey & waged war on islam. Not only that the founder of kemalism was declared non-muslim by all prominent scholars of islam both inside and outside turkey. Its a no-brainer.

Lets stop it though. The thread is getting derailed.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Is there a map available with percentage of yes and no voters in each province/city?

 

[SouI]

Same question to you, how do you know kemalists are not muslims?

 

[HannibalBarca]

What Atarturk said all of them are available in the teaching of Islam.

 

[xenon54 out]

By what they publicly espouse and say and how they historically ruled turkey waged war on islam.

As you can see im ''kemalist'' secular what might wonder you is that i enjoyed more religious education in Switzerland that most of the conservatives in Turkey.
But this is just a background info in case my follwing sentence is confusing you, so when i went to mosque what the imam and everybody around us always said to us is to never assume things about peoples religion, never declare someone as non-muslim because only god can judge, never ask people about their faith and never enforce your religion upon other, those are considered one of the biggest sins possible.

What you guys are doing here appears to be the opposite of what the imam has taught to me, maybe its because of different schools that you guys have compared to Turks, thats why im asking.

BTW: no respected schooler in Turkey declared Atatürk non muslim.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

But easily 90% in Turkey considers itself muslim and live with this identitity even when majority isnt really practising, so how do we determine whos muslim and who not?

...

Considers Muslim without practicing. It is not be a Muslim. It doesn't exist in Muslim religion (Like Christianity, Judaism). But again they are free to do what they want.

 

[SouI]

What Atarturk said all of them are available in the teaching of Islam.

Islam itself is a superstition by design.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Considers Muslim without practicing. It is not be a Muslim. It doesn't exist in Muslim religion (Like Christianity, Judaism). But again they are free to do what they want.

You are playing a dangerous game...

No one has the right to say who is or not a Muslim. No One Except GOD himself.
The Q is : someone is not a Muslim if he doesn't pray 5 times a day, or don't do Ramadan or else...? it's to HIM to answer to GOD...

But if you go on this road... then among the Muslims around the WORLD a Good majority ( more among youngster) do not pray everyday and/or yet Do ramadan/Zakat and so on..; and vice versa.

You can say he's not practicing at 100% but you can't say he is not one...

 

[Luffy 500]

As you can see im ''kemalist'' secular what might wonder you is that i enjoyed more religious education in Switzerland that most of the conservatives in Turkey.
But this is just a background info in case my follwing sentence is confusing you, so when i went to mosque what the imam and everybody around us always said to us is to never assume things about peoples religion, never declare someone as non-muslim because only god can judge, never ask people about their faith and never enforce your religion upon other, those are considered one of the biggest sins possible.

What you guys are doing here appears to be the opposite of what the imam has taught to me, maybe its because of different schools that you guys have compared to Turks.

You are talking about takfir right? I did NOT do takfir since I did NOT called any individual muslim kafir. I talked about a group and ideology and I talked in generality. Example - those who believe in trinity are kafir, those who worship idols are kafir, those who believe in secularism are kafir etc. Also suppose someone publicly says he is a hindu then it would be natural for me to consider him a hindu. Its NOT judging.

Look if someone says he is a Muslim its imperative on me to treat him as a muslim unless he shows (by his actions & words) otherwise.

As for the imam you are mentioning I do not know what he said BUT yes you can judge. In islamic history jurist always judges in matters such as apostasy and blashphemy and did takfir on heretics. islamic jurist can judge. But yes takfir is a serious matter and common Muslims better NOT do takfir on individuals ....unless that individual's hereticism and blashphemy is clear cut. Its only the domain of Islamic scholars and jurist. I did NOT do takfir on anyone.

Please here are some materials you can read about takfir :

https://islamqa.info/en/85102

https://islamqa.info/en/6688

 

[blondeturkish]

ther is no place for you in Turkey anymore get the fak away and stay in america.

said by who exactly? a guy living on a walfare in netherlands.

 

[xenon54 out]

You are talking about takfir right? I did NOT do takfir since I did NOT called any individual muslim kafir. I talked about a group and ideology and I talked in generality. Example - those who believe in trinity are kafir, those who worship idols are kafir, those who believe in secularism are kafir etc. Also suppose someone publicly says he is a hindu then it would be natural for me to consider him a hindu. Its NOT judging.

Look if someone says he is a Muslim its imperative on me to treat him as a muslim unless he shows (by his actions & words) otherwise.

As for the imam you are mentioning I do not know what he said BUT yes you can judge. In islamic history jurist always judges in matters such as apostasy and blashphemy and did takfir on heretics. islamic jurist can judge. But yes takfir is a serious matter and common Muslims better NOT do takfir on individuals ....unless that individual's hereticism and blashphemy is clear cut. Its only the domain of Islamic scholars and jurist. I did NOT do takfir on anyone.

Please here are some materials you can read about takfir :

https://islamqa.info/en/85102

https://islamqa.info/en/6688

This is a contradiction in itself, according to your teaching im kafir too, and so are 90% of Turks then.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

You are playing a dangerous game...

No one has the right to say who is or not a Muslim. No One Except GOD himself.
The Q is : someone is not a Muslim if he doesn't pray 5 times a day, or don't do Ramadan or else...? it's to HIM to answer to GOD...

But if you go on this road... then among the Muslims around the WORLD a Good majority ( more among youngster) do not pray everyday and/or yet Do ramadan/Zakat and so on..; and vice versa.

You can say he's not practicing at 100% but you can't say he is not one...

So easy !

Yes it's to him to answer to God.

But it's not a restaurant card, there are rules. It is not mine but that of God.

At its own risks not to obey it. In the end, he can't say he did not know.



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