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Turkey will closely follow Greek plans to revive oil bid in Aegean, says FM

^Well, we do spend billions of dollars to our navy for these kind of situations. To not "Take it up with God"

Can you quite justify to me (and others) why exactly Turkey has a claim on the waters. "Turkey is too big and too strong" to be left with no sea is weak and doesn't apply within a law abiding peaceful establishment.

"Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the name continental shelf was given a legal definition as the stretch of the seabed adjacent to the shores of a particular country to which it belongs."

Unfortunately for Turkey in this instance Greece's geography is such that Turkey is left with the bare minimum.
Are you implying that you want to change the status quo?

Do you think that would be wise even if you were to succeed? How long lived would such a move be?

Not to mention the other thing. It has been hinted that there is oil and gas down there. Let's say there is.

Do you think the US and EU would rather have access to this resources a small, stable through out the years in demographic and economic sizes, with given allegiances country or a rising regional superpower in both economic and demographic terms ?
 
Do you think the US and EU would rather have access to this resources a small, stable through out the years in demographic and economic sizes, with given allegiances country or a rising regional superpower in both economic and demographic terms ?

Of course, their hearts would want what you just said because Greece is much more easy country for them to manage. However, their minds are strong enough to understand the fact that getting a position against a regional power is not so smart. (Turkiye simply offers both US and EU much more cards in Central Asia, Caucasia, Levant, and Middle East when compared to Greece)

I understand that your basic claim is that those islands give Greece this huge so-called EEZ. You must understand that it is not easy to implement this plan as long as Turkiye sees it as a Casus Belli. Turkiye will do everything that can be done to prevent this plan from being implemented. I accept that seizing some of the Aegean islands which, in your opinion, cause this big EEZ of Greece, is out of question. But keep in mind that we are strong enough to maintain the current status quo in Aegean Sea using our military presence. Neither US nor EU would want to intervene a dispute, which includes signs of becoming a hot conflict, regardless of which side is right.

Remember what happened in Cyprus in 1974. You expected US and UK to actually use their military force to prevent Turkiye from making a operation in Cyprus and got doomed. Fully trusting other countries to defend your rights against a certain country is not wise and facing Turkiye by yourself in a dispute, that Turkiye cares so much, is beyond your strength.
 
Can you quite justify to me (and others) why exactly Turkey has a claim on the waters. "Turkey is too big and too strong" to be left with no sea is weak and doesn't apply within a law abiding peaceful establishment.
Turkey is left with nothing because we've entered the 20th century with almost no navy. Ottoman Empire was left with very little naval assets. This is the only damn reason you've ended up with all of the islands. Things aren't quite the same right now so to speak.

so God obviously didn't give you anything :)
"Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the name continental shelf was given a legal definition as the stretch of the seabed adjacent to the shores of a particular country to which it belongs."
Jeah I'm familiar with the process. But then, why do we even speak?
Unfortunately for Turkey in this instance Greece's geography is such that Turkey is left with the bare minimum.
Are you implying that you want to change the status quo?
Nope. Actually I was expecting a more reasonable approach from you. Hoping that we could reach a compromise. But we do speak some other languages.

Do you think that would be wise even if you were to succeed? How long lived would such a move be?
Hard to say, military doctrines change, balances change, what is gained today can be lost tomorrow.
Do you think the US and EU would rather have access to this resources a small, stable through out the years in demographic and economic sizes, with given allegiances country or a rising regional superpower in both economic and demographic terms ?
Again, I'm familiar with the process from WWI. Fortunately we aren't a multi-national empire now. Don't have much weak spots that can be used against us. So why don't we save ourselves from a lot of crap and figure out a way that both our nations could *be happy* ?

So it turns out you can't get everything.. isn it the logical way to cut your losses and move on, or insisting on "I've got all the islands, the agean is mine!" nonesense?
 
For those who are not familiar with the conflict between Turkiye and Greece (O kadar yazdim okumamazlik etmeyin sakin:))

UN 3rd Law of the Sea Article discusses detection limit of the territorial waters of a state's right on the 3rd Convention: "Every State has the right to determine the width of territorial waters. This width, determined in accordance with this contract shall not exceed the basic lines from the 12 nautical miles. "

Greece, on the basis of this article, claims "using their own domestic law and the independent will" she can increase the limits of territorial waters from 6 to 12 miles.

Turkiye, however, argues that the provision of the UN Convention width of 12 miles is an "upper limit". In this regard, the provision of a state based on the use of this application to determine the width of the territorial waters, is also an international matter. Indeed, a decision taken by the International Court of Justice, "the limitation of sea areas has always an international aspect. This decision cannot depend on a state`s will and in the form of only the coastal state's domestic law. Although only the coastal State is entitled to do so because of the limiting process is not necessarily in a one-sided process, in turn, in terms of third states to limit the validity of these concerns of international law."

If Greece emits the boundaries of the national territorial waters in the Aegean from 6 to 12 miles, Turkiye, on the basis of international law, have the right to not recognize this application. Turkish response is well known to Greek attitude in this matter; therefore, unilateral decision by Athens is not accepted by Ankara. The Turkish attitude for this matter is a "customary".

According to Greeks, UN 3rd Law of the Sea Article on 3rd Convention which refers 12 miles limit, gradually is accepted by all states. For Greeks, it is a "common law rule of international law", a "customary" (rule of customary).

However, according to Turkiye, the maximum limit of the territorial waters of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 12 miles might be a rule, though there are states in the practical application of the national territorial waters apply different widths criteria for determining. For example, the 20 states apply 3 miles, 2 states 4 miles, 4 states 6 miles, 81 states 12 miles, 1 state 15 miles, 1 state 20 miles, 2 states 30 miles, 2 states 35 miles, 4 states 50 miles, 1 state 70 miles, 1 state 100 miles, 1 state is 200 miles wide, and 13 states have 150 miles borders with the national territorial waters. As it can be seen, there is not a clear “customary” over 12 mile rule. Every state determines their boundaries of the national territorial waters based on their own conditions and matters.

Airspace

Rules of international law says for the sovereignty of states’ rights as "a state's sovereignty covers national territory, territorial sea, and all this land where make up the coast, and the air space above these areas". So, limit of the territorial waters of a state have to be the same as the width of the national air space and the rights of states` sovereignty is accepted over those areas.

Today, Greece claims her national air space width as 10 miles, although width of her national territorial waters in the Aegean is 6 miles. This practice is contrary to the rules of international law.

Turkiye claims that based on the 1944 Chicago Convention Greece cannot extend her a national air space beyond the limits of the territorial waters. According to this view, the sovereignty of a state for the width of the air space can be seen over the territorial waters. Thus, the territorial waters of Greece, 6 miles, only provide an air space of 6 miles and outside the 6 miles area is fully international air space.

Indeed, international law does not grant the right to coastal state to declare different widths for the territorial waters for different purposes. It can be mentioned the principle of equivalence between territorial waters and airspace. This way, the 1958 Geneva Convention on the 2nd Open Sea and 87/1/B Article of the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention stipulates freedom of airspace on the open sea. Similarly, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Council made a decision in April 1948 that only the deep-sea regime can be applied in the air space above the open sea.

@amalakas

I am sure you know very well what happened in the past when your country unilaterally acted. As you are aware, today we are much more stronger than past and you are much more weaker than your past. I do not think Greece will act unilaterally unless she has got some foreign supports. However, even with foreign support Turkiye will do everything to prevent this, even it means "war" (like she did in Cyprus).

So it would be better sit and agree upon this matter so both nation will get benefit from it. Other option is not possible.
 
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Greeks like playing fire again, Even in a time period when they are trying to survive against a likely collapse thanks to arm race against Turks...

Instead of using soft power against Greeks, Sooner or later, Turkish officiers will understand that The only usefull thing Greeks get, is the real military strength presentation in Aegean. Someone should teach our officiers about Turk-Greek history and working principles of Greek manner and immdediately underline the dates of 1071 Malazgirt, 1453 Istanbul, 1921 the date of teaching Greeks about swimming skills from Anatolia to Greek mainland, 1974 Cyprus Peace Operation, 1996 Kardak operation...etc

They had provocated Turkish Army with same way in Cyprus, While cutting civilian Turks in islands.
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Result:
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Today, They are provocating us with same way...
 
Someone should teach our officiers about Turk-Greek history and working principles of Greek manner and immdediately underline the dates of 1071 Malazgirt, 1453 Istanbul, 1921 the date of teaching Greeks about swimming skills from Anatolia to Greek mainland, 1974 Cyprus Peace Operation, 1996 Kardak operation...etc.

WTF..
Seriously? teach our officers? These dates are A B C for any military high school student let alone active duty officers
 
WTF..
Seriously? teach our officers? These dates are A B C for any military high school student let alone active duty officers


The word officiers refer any politic figure called as desicion maker who is responsible of following Greek dangerous activities in order to take necessary steps/precuations against what they achieved as a response. TSK or military high school students are not our concern in here. They are the yes-man of parliament.
 
I dont think Greece will ever dare to declare it officially.

Don't be so sure.

Having a strong military does not mean you will get what you want.

EU provided a staggering 250 Bn Euros to Greece to save it from bankruptcy. You think they will let such an investment go down the drain because Turkey feels they haven't go enough sea?
 
EU provided a staggering 250 Bn Euros to Greece to save it from bankruptcy. You think they will let such an investment go down the drain because Turkey feels they haven't go enough sea?

That is a good reason for EU to discourage you from declaring it.
 
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