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Turkey could acquire around 80 Eurofighter Typhoon Fighter Jets

According to a Turkish official contacted by Defense News, the most serious option would be the Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a consortium bringing together BAE Systems, Airbus and Leonardo.

Anyway, the Turkish defense official interviewed by Defense News confirmed that the Typhoon can be an "option", with the prospect of an order of around 80 aircraft. “These planes can even be assembled in Turkey, although they have a higher price then,” he said.

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The Turkish government has been looking for solutions to modernize its combat aviation, which is mainly based on old-generation F-16 C/Ds as well as F-4E Phantom IIs. In recent months, Ankara has thus discussed the possible purchase of Su-57 "Felon" or Su-35 "Flanker-E" from Russia... and has said that it is considering possible cooperation with the Russian aeronautical industry to carry out its TF-X next-generation combat aircraft program.


Then, recently, Turkey expressed its wish to acquire 40 latest version of the F-16, called "Viper", as well as 80 kits to modernize part of the old generation F-16s implemented by its air force.

Only, such an order will have to obtain the approval of the United States Congress... And this one is not necessarily in the best disposition with regard to Ankara, in particular because of the tensions in the Eastern Mediterranean and its role in Syria, in Libya as well as in the last Nagorno-Karabakh war, having opposed Azerbaijan and Armenia, in October 2020. In addition, the purchase of the S-400 remains a bone of contention.

That said, Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine may be a game-changer for Ankara, which, as a reminder, is close to Kiev [to the point of providing it with Bayraktar TB-2 drones] while being dependent on Moscow for its energy and grain supplies. In addition, Turkey had the opportunity to recall that it is a "strategic" member for NATO due to its ability to block the Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits, thus limiting the movements of Russian warships. But it is not certain that this is likely to encourage the purchase of American F-16s… or even their reintegration into the F-35 program.



Time to lift 'unjust' sanctions on Turkey's defence industry, Erdogan tells Biden​



ISTANBUL, March 10 (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Joe Biden in a phone call on Thursday that it was past time to lift all "unjust" sanctions on Turkey's defence industry.

According to a statement from Erdogan's office, he also told Biden that Turkey expected its request to purchase 40 new F-16 fighter jets and modernise its existing fleet to be finalised as soon as possible



IMO it is only an attempt to soften the USA to sell either F-16Vs or even F-35!

...

The first flight of a superprototype in 2023
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But this looks not like a real prototype but more a mock up?
 
IMO it is only an attempt to soften the USA to sell either F-16Vs or even F-35!

Turkiye wants to buy F-16V
but Turkiye says we have option Fighter Jet from Europe ( NATO )

USA did not sell PATRIOT to Turkiye and we bought S400 from Russia ( and USA has started crying )

if USA doesnt sell even F-16 to Turkiye , then the most serious option would be the Eurofighter Typhoon ( Turkiye needs Fighter Jets and no time to wait for American caprice )




But this looks not like a real prototype but more a mock up?

a few years ago you also said that its a mock up
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today AKINCI UCAV is in inventory which developed by only 3 countries in the world
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its prototype , not mock up
everybody will see the first flight of a MIUS prototype in 2023
( Turbofan engine which will be fitted to MIUS prototype )
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Yes the Eurofighter is a twin engine multi role het with some stealth. Overall much better than a single engine F-16!

I’ve said many times that Tr relies too much on the F-16 concept. It needs twin engine planes, the F-15 would have been the best option but that does not appear to be a choice.
 
Best bet for them now. Although I do believe the US may say ditch the S-400 and you are back in the F-35.

Yep ( but Turkey has lost a lot of industrial offsets it will never get back now that they were removed from the progamme even if they rejoined of sorts ).

I don't understand the value of the S400 for Turkey - given what it has cost them overall interms of their security. It should never have been allowed to develop into the situation it now became. I totally understand the Turkish frustration at being forced to not be allowed to develop military capabilities that would increase the gap relative to Greece - but they would have been better served by developing an S400 equivalent with the technology transfer/access that Turkey had as part of NATO rather than having the military restrictions(for which the Turkish President has complained about again very recently) that would restrict some of their programmes.

I am sure that Turkey can overcome some of these restrictions, but it takes more time, more money and slows down the rate of development as you have to deal with new roadblocks that you did not plan on having..
 
Turkey does not have an EF request. Turkey has never had a demand for Russian aircraft, either. It is important to remember that the current discussions are hypothetical reasoning.

There is no uncertainty in the road map of the Turkish air force after 2035.

The current situation is a search for a stopgap measures for the period between 2022 and 2035/37, as the F-35 aircraft went out of planning.

The main plan that comes to the fore here: Upgrading a certain amount of F-16 fleets to the B70 level and producing 2-3 more squadrons of F-16 B70s in TAI facilities. In addition to these, the existing B30/40 F-16s could subject to ÖZGÜR modernization program.

F-16s are currently the main platform of the Turkish air force and do not need any additional planning in terms of technical infrastructure, maintenance, training documentation and operational conversion.

On the other hand, in all other alternative plans, a minimum period of 7-8-9 years is needed, even if you have purchase produced- ready jets.
 
IMO it is only an attempt to soften the USA to sell either F-16Vs or even F-35!

No. The person who wrote the article is known to be an asswipe. No one in Turkey will hire him, so he writes bullshit articles like this one.

Head of the Turkish Defence industry has said that the F-35 book is closed. So that is another false end.
 
But this looks not like a real prototype but more a mock up?
Yep, that thing is officially a "production development model", The first flight is expected in 2023 so even though they are incredibly fast compared to other firms and even though I fully expect them to begin the prototype assembly soon, there's still some time for that to happen.
 
Yep ( but Turkey has lost a lot of industrial offsets it will never get back now that they were removed from the progamme even if they rejoined of sorts ).

I don't understand the value of the S400 for Turkey - given what it has cost them overall interms of their security. It should never have been allowed to develop into the situation it now became. I totally understand the Turkish frustration at being forced to not be allowed to develop military capabilities that would increase the gap relative to Greece - but they would have been better served by developing an S400 equivalent with the technology transfer/access that Turkey had as part of NATO rather than having the military restrictions(for which the Turkish President has complained about again very recently) that would restrict some of their programmes.

I am sure that Turkey can overcome some of these restrictions, but it takes more time, more money and slows down the rate of development as you have to deal with new roadblocks that you did not plan on having..
Buying the s400 is probably the biggest military arms blunder of the 21st century, 100 f-35s sacrificed for s400 lmao, who does that? I'd have to see it to believe it type of thing .
 
Yep, that thing is officially a "production development model", The first flight is expected in 2023 so even though they are incredibly fast compared to other firms and even though I fully expect them to begin the prototype assembly soon, there's still some time for that to happen.


Sorry, but where are the attachment point for the wings? It looks like a plain flat surface and the wings are surely not glued?
 
Buying the s400 is probably the biggest military arms blunder of the 21st century, 100 f-35s sacrificed for s400 lmao, who does that? I'd have to see it to believe it type of thing .

Even if Turkey did not get the S400, the Americans would have another excuse not to give F35's to Turkiye. The reality is that Israel does not
want to see a muslim country getting hold of the F35. They might geet it maybe 5/10 years later and it will be a different version from Israels.

Thank God Pakistan moved onto the J10C because they were playing this game with Pakistan for along time.
 
Sorry, but where are the attachment point for the wings? It looks like a plain flat surface and the wings are surely not glued?
The first fuselage shell of MIUS may have been used to test the quality of the molds made. The mold will be modified according to how the composite comes out. They could also follow this method for balanced placement studies of indoor units. This fuselage will probably be used to check the accuracy of the design made on the computer and the first parts to be produced.

A similar method was followed in AKINCI. After the first fuselage was shown, it made its first flight at the end of the 1st year and the system was put into service after the acceptance tests were completed in the 3rd year.

Most infrastructure for the MIUS A/Blok-1 variant (subsonic and Al-25 TLT engine) will be transferred/adapted from AKINCI. So MIUS's first block model will mature very quickly. The variant to be prepared for supersonic and direct air battles is likely to have a long time ahead.
 
The first fuselage shell of MIUS may have been used to test the quality of the molds made. The mold will be modified according to how the composite comes out. They could also follow this method for balanced placement studies of indoor units. This fuselage will probably be used to check the accuracy of the design made on the computer and the first parts to be produced.

A similar method was followed in AKINCI. After the first fuselage was shown, it made its first flight at the end of the 1st year and the system was put into service after the acceptance tests were completed in the 3rd year.

Most infrastructure for the MIUS A/Blok-1 variant (subsonic and Al-25 TLT engine) will be transferred/adapted from AKINCI. So MIUS's first block model will mature very quickly. The variant to be prepared for supersonic and direct air battles is likely to have a long time ahead.


Thank you so much for this comprehensive reply and explanation! :tup:
 
What Indonesia will gain ???

We have been there since the start of the program (2011), developing the plane, this platform can also be useful to grow our component industry, not to mention now Indonesian Aerospace has the chance to make indigenous Stealth wingman drone to accompany the plane.

This program will also likely to grow Indonesian Aerospace much further in term of sales and production since I predict Indonesia will order about 200 KF21/IFX, not to mention Indonesian Aerospace will also become part of the supply chain for parts with quite significant percentage of workshare.

Translation from Google translate:

February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)

KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design

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Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng , KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader for Angkasa , in late January.

"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.

As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.

The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.

Superior to the Su - 35 Program, KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta. From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.

The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.

As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.

The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.

Prerequisites requirement dismissed the proposed counter designs by KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, which is intended to cut development costs. In the configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.

Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets.

However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).



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We also have avionics company that has been acknowledge by Boeing

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Suppliers in Indonesia​

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"Indonesia’s manufacturing support for Boeing commercial airplanes includes suppliers producing avionics systems, composite parts and precision machine parts."



Indonesian experience in developing planes,UCAV. etc

Indonesian wind tunnel facility


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South Korea has developed AESA radar quite long

South Korea to test AESA fighter radar​

08 MARCH 2022

by Akhil Kadidal


South Korea is preparing to test the performance of its indigenously developed active electronic scanned array (AESA) radar, meant for integration into the KF-21 fighter aircraft.

The announcement, which was made by the country's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), specified that the domestic flight-testing, scheduled to start from mid-March, will “verify and supplement” the performance of the radar system.

The tests will “mitigate risks associated with the initial development of the radar system for deployment aboard fighter jets”, and help to “optimise the development of software”, a DAPA statement said.



irrelevant post, what Korea have offered Turkey is not different then what they offered you. Every engineering will be done in Korea, ther is not much you will learn. Making parts for a fighter does not make you a partner. When Indonesia want to change parts or ad things the engineering will be done in Korea. AESA radar is based on Israel Radar means licence produce, when Americans refused to give radar they managed to pull in 2 years a radar:-)? Korean figter radar based on ELm 2052, good luck. O not to forget software is from Sweden.

When Indonesian engineering turn back home, they have no infrastructure no software ti R and D. You need to invest in buildings, super computers and a lot of things. Well if Indonesian egnineering thinks the can pull something out of this project we respect that.
 
irrelevant post, what Korea have offered Turkey is not different then what they offered you. Every engineering will be done in Korea, ther is not much you will learn. Making parts for a fighter does not make you a partner. When Indonesia want to change parts or ad things the engineering will be done in Korea. AESA radar is based on Israel Radar means licence produce, when Americans refused to give radar they managed to pull in 2 years a radar:-)? Korean figter radar based on ELm 2052, good luck. O not to forget software is from Sweden.

When Indonesian engineering turn back home, they have no infrastructure no software ti R and D. You need to invest in buildings, super computers and a lot of things. Well if Indonesian egnineering thinks the can pull something out of this project we respect that.

Just Making part ? I dont need to re-explain. There is KFX/IFX sticky thread that you can read there about the work share, Indonesian IFX will be built in Indonesia

The center of development is in Korea and this is why we send around 100 design engineers to contribute on the development process.

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11:49 October 07, 2019

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.


You talk without using source while I give good and credible source.

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No infrastructure ?

This is in Indonesia, even Anka and Aksungur wind tunnel test is conducted in Indonesia since 2008-2017. Indonesia has developed airplane since 1976 and we have already had many infrastructure, heck even you just have birth impact test facility in TAI where we have already had it since long time ago as an example.


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About AESA ? You look like Erdogan, even credible news from Jane defense doesnt convince you.

The development of Korean AESA radar has been started since long time ago. If I am not mistaken I have posted the photo of the development since early 2010 and the way they can make it smaller and smaller gradually
 
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Yes the Eurofighter is a twin engine multi role het with some stealth. Overall much better than a single engine F-16!

I’ve said many times that Tr relies too much on the F-16 concept. It needs twin engine planes, the F-15 would have been the best option but that does not appear to be a choice.
All 4.5 gen fighter lose all of their stealth once they are loaded. F-16's RCS is smaller than EFT's.
 

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