Turkey Chooses Russia Over NATO

[Penguin]

The guy in the red circle is a known and wanted PKK terrorist called Abdi Ferhad Şahin. The US isn't just cooperating with the YPG, which itself is the Syrian wing of the PKK, but with Turkish PKK militants too.

And no, "second order" problems wont get more attention. The PKK have been carrying out terror attacks for almost 40 years. Once ISIS are defeated nothing is going to change as far as that goes. If anything it will get worse with the plethora of arms and equipment and tens of thousands of trained militants to pass on their knowledge to the next generation of PKK fighters.

The Kurdistan Party (PKK) was founded in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist movement that sought to establish a Marxist Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey.
In 1984, the group began a guerrilla war against the Turkish government, bringing about 35,000 people alive. After hard-handed action by the Turkish army in the early 1990s, the PKK was largely defeated. The group then changed her strategy from a national uprising to urban terrorism.
Following a tip from the US intelligence service, the Turkish authorities arrested PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan in Kenya in 1999. Öcalan was sentenced to life imprisonment. Although Öcalan remained the symbolic leader of the group, his arrest was a major contradiction for the PKK. In order to avoid death sentence, Öcalan advised his followers from prison to abstain from violence and to use peacefully for Kurdish rights in the future. The PKK then announced a ceasefire that lasted until June 2004 when a group of hardliners took control of the group.
In the following years, the PKK committed various attacks in both the east and west of Turkey, often from bases in northern Iraq. In July 2009, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, with a "democratic opening", launched an initiative to increase the political and cultural rights of the Turkish Kurds. However, the ban on the main pro-Kurdish party DTP and a legal offensive against Kurdish activists meant the end of the opening. Out of anger about the failure of the negotiations, the PKK reaffirmed violence in 2010.

Size (in persons) 1000-5000

Translate from https://kennisbankterrorisme.nctv.nl/organisatie/partiya-karkeren-kurdistan-pkk
Based on ‘Foreign Terrorist Organizations’, Congressional Research Service, 06/02/2004; ‘Country Reports on Terrorism 2009’, U.S. Department of State, augustus 2010

 

[Tom99]

Turkey Chooses Russia Over NATO for Missile Defense

Turkey has agreed to pay $2.5 billion to acquire Russia’s most advanced missile defense system, a senior Turkish official said, in a deal that signals a turn away from the NATO military alliance that has anchored Turkey to the West for more than six decades.

That's an over dramatic title, don't you think?

If we do it in the same way, then:
Look how quick Turkey turns,

Turkey Chooses NATO over Russia for Missile Defense

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/...sam-for-sampt-aster-30-missile-defense-system
Turkey joins Italian-French consortium Eurosam for SAMP/T Aster 30 missile defense system

Turkish Defense Minister Fikri Işık announced on Friday that Turkey has signed an agreement with Italian-French consortium Eurosam to develop its national missile defense system.

"I am happy to announce that this afternoon Turkey has signed a cooperation agreement with Italian-French consortium Eurosam to produce missile defense systems," the minister said, speaking at a reception for Bastille Day at the French embassy in Ankara.
...
The minister described the move as one of the most concrete developments of Turkey's alliance within the defense industry.

It would be smart for Turkey to have multiple type of missile defenses so it doesn't get blackmailed by any one country/system supplier.

 

[xenon54 out]

The Kurdistan Party (PKK) was founded in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist movement that sought to establish a Marxist Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey.
In 1984, the group began a guerrilla war against the Turkish government, bringing about 35,000 people alive. After hard-handed action by the Turkish army in the early 1990s, the PKK was largely defeated. The group then changed her strategy from a national uprising to urban terrorism.
Following a tip from the US intelligence service, the Turkish authorities arrested PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan in Kenya in 1999. Öcalan was sentenced to life imprisonment. Although Öcalan remained the symbolic leader of the group, his arrest was a major contradiction for the PKK. In order to avoid death sentence, Öcalan advised his followers from prison to abstain from violence and to use peacefully for Kurdish rights in the future. The PKK then announced a ceasefire that lasted until June 2004 when a group of hardliners took control of the group.
In the following years, the PKK committed various attacks in both the east and west of Turkey, often from bases in northern Iraq. In July 2009, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, with a "democratic opening", launched an initiative to increase the political and cultural rights of the Turkish Kurds. However, the ban on the main pro-Kurdish party DTP and a legal offensive against Kurdish activists meant the end of the opening. Out of anger about the failure of the negotiations, the PKK reaffirmed violence in 2010.

Size (in persons) 1000-5000

Translate from https://kennisbankterrorisme.nctv.nl/organisatie/partiya-karkeren-kurdistan-pkk
Based on ‘Foreign Terrorist Organizations’, Congressional Research Service, 06/02/2004; ‘Country Reports on Terrorism 2009’, U.S. Department of State, augustus 2010

Well we arent in 90s anymore, the fact is US is supporting pkk today, not to mention European countries turning a blind eye to pkk activities in their soil.

 

[Glass]

kurdish language and such should be banned. there needs to be consequences.

 

[Penguin]

Well we arent in 90s anymore, the fact is US is supporting pkk today, not to mention European countries turning a blind eye to pkk activities in their soil.

This is from todays National Antiterrorism Coordination Agency in NL (i.e. government issue)

 

[xenon54 out]

This is from todays National Antiterrorism Coordination Agency in NL (i.e. government issue)

Look buddy, we are neither fools nor blind to not to see whats going on in Syria and Europe.

EP Bruxelles...

 

[Kiryu]

Collective punishments are unfair and counter productive. There needs to be space for Kurdish expression in Turkey. I think the main parties should have Kurdish chapters within them. The AKP have lots of Kurds that support them but they never get a platform to speak up so instead Kurdish political expression is left to the ethnic parties and extremists to take over. Turkey should be bringing Kurds into the mainstream and this is one way of doing it. If the CHP are as progressive as they make out then they should do it too. I don't expect the MHP to do it however.

Also I think Turkey needs to stop fearing the word Kurdistan so much. As a geo-cultural region to describe traditional Kurdish places it's fine. But I would restrict its use to Kurdish speaking highlands in SE Turkey. So no Kars is not Kurdistan, nor is Turkish Mesopotamia, and that means Diyarbakir isn't in Kurdistan either. Mesopotamia has for thousands of years had a multi ethnic demographic.
But for places like Bitlis, Siirt, Hakkari it doesn't bother me one bit if some people who live there want to call it Turkish Kurdistan in a cultural sense.
The political administration of Turkey should always remain unitary authorities however. But if local government want to use languages other than Turkish to reflect the local population use, then they should so long as its alongside Turkish and not replacing it.
This doesn't have to just be in Kurdish, or Zaza, or Laz but also Cherkes, Tatar, Karachay, or local Turkish dialects. Ulupamir has a lot of Kyrgyz, wouldn't it be nice if Kyrgyz was used officially in that village, alongside Turkish, in local affairs?
Ultimately it would be used in local and cultural affairs and would be good to undermine the PKK as well as soft power of the state.

To defeat the PKK you need to fight the whole network and it's not just a military solution. Militarily Turkey can't be weak. If anyone is raising arms against the state, seek and destroy. This also means cross border action as well if neighbouring countries are unable or unwilling to do it.
There needs to be as much attention on the intelligence gathering as on the military too and I'm still surprised how weak Turkey is here. There is the technology, but human resources are still weak. Look at Russia, in the Caucasus and Volga regions they have FSB offices in every district and god knows how many agents recruited from local populations in various fields.

People need to feel like they belong to the state. By pushing them away you only push them to someone else.

 

[Penguin]

Look buddy, we are neither fools nor blind to not to see whats going on in Syria and Europe.

No, I know, "Buddy" (not sure I appreciate being called "Buddy". Normally people address me as "Sir", if they are not on a first name basis). Turkey secret service MIT coordinates intimidation and possibly hit squads from here. Just like PPK by the way. So nice.

In the news here last week. Translate these from Dutch to whatever language you prefer.
http://nieuws.tpo.nl/2017/07/10/turkse-inlichtingendienst-den-haag/
http://binnenland.eenvandaag.nl/tv-items/75317/vrees_voor_turkse_moordcommando_s_in_nederland
http://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/nede...rt-moordcommandos-aan-vanuit-den-haag-521402/

Likewise in Germany
http://nos.nl/artikel/2165387-turkse-geheime-dienst-spioneert-volop-in-duitsland.html
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2016/08/turkse-inlichtingendienst-mit-terroriseert-duitse-turken/

Anyway, the source for the previous post is the National Coordinator for Counter-Terrorism and Safety, which is part of the Department of Justice, and which coordinates between all agencies and services involved in countering terrosism, not just something I made up or what someone posted on wiki.

 

[xenon54 out]

No, I know, "Buddy" (not sure I appreciate being called "Buddy". Normally people address me as "Sir", if they are not on a first name basis). Turkey secret service MIT coordinates intimidation and possibly hit squads from here. Just like PPK by the way. So nice.

In the news here last week. Translate these from Dutch to whatever language you prefer.
http://nieuws.tpo.nl/2017/07/10/turkse-inlichtingendienst-den-haag/
http://binnenland.eenvandaag.nl/tv-items/75317/vrees_voor_turkse_moordcommando_s_in_nederland
http://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/nede...rt-moordcommandos-aan-vanuit-den-haag-521402/

Likewise in Germany
http://nos.nl/artikel/2165387-turkse-geheime-dienst-spioneert-volop-in-duitsland.html
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2016/08/turkse-inlichtingendienst-mit-terroriseert-duitse-turken/

Anyway, the source for the previous post is the National Coordinator for Counter-Terrorism and Safety, which is part of the Department of Justice, and which coordinates between all agencies and services involved in countering terrosism, not just something I made up or what someone posted on wiki.

What do you expect? Europe is pkk's main source of income, they dont finance their war by herding sheeps in north Iraq. Europe knows the drug and human traficking done by pkk, they know pkk collects exortion money from Kurds in Europe but they still turn a blind eye to them, their criminal deeds continue unhindered.

I have a Kurdish friend whose father committed suicide because he with his small shop couldnt afford to pay pkk thugs anymore, this friend grew up without a father because of them, Turkish intelligence hunting those criminal terrorists down is only welcome to me, something the respective countries should have done long ago.

Also dont tell me Turkey doesnt get spied from German intelligence or any other for that matter, thats international politics for you...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What do you expect? Europe is pkk's main source of income, they dont finance their war by herding sheeps in north Iraq. Europe knows the drug and human traficking done by pkk, they know pkk collects exortion money from Kurds in Europe but they still turn a blind eye to them, their criminal deeds continue unhindered.

I have a Kurdish friend whose father committed suicide because he with his small shop couldnt afford to pay pkk thugs anymore, this friend grew up without a father because of them, Turkish intelligence hunting those criminal terrorists down is only welcome to me, something the respective countries should have done long ago.

Also dont tell me Turkey doesnt get spied from German intelligence or any other for that matter, thats international politics for you...

Don't deny that comment.
Politicians are busy getting reelected, and acting against PKK won't win any votes,
as long as they do nothing in Sweden.
Focus is on jobs, schools and healthcare.

Police is busy improving statistics on "number of solved crime".
They concentrate on easily solved things like petty narcotics crime and
speeding tickets, while pretending to look at other crimes.
We have the lowest number of police per capita in Europe, so they are overworked.

If PKK is extorting Kurds, they are stupid. Frauding the governments is much more profitable.

 

[Penguin]

What do you expect? Europe is pkk's main source of income, they dont finance their war by herding sheeps in north Iraq. Europe knows the drug and human traficking done by pkk, they know pkk collects exortion money from Kurds in Europe but they still turn a blind eye to them, their criminal deeds continue unhindered.

I have a Kurdish friend whose father committed suicide because he with his small shop couldnt afford to pay pkk thugs anymore, this friend grew up without a father because of them, Turkish intelligence hunting those criminal terrorists down is only welcome to me, something the respective countries should have done long ago.

Also dont tell me Turkey doesnt get spied from German intelligence or any other for that matter, thats international politics for you...

I don't expect anything, I'm a realist. Still, I don't appreciate my country to be the playground of either foreigns services or terror groups. So I don't need lectures on this here (of all places).

 

[One-Above-All]

The title is misleading.

 

[xenon54 out]

I don't expect anything, I'm a realist. Still, I don't appreciate my country to be the playground of either foreigns services or terror groups. So I don't need lectures on this here (of all places).

Well its in the hands of NL goverment.

Don't deny that comment.
Politicians are busy getting reelected, and acting against PKK won't win any votes,
as long as they do nothing in Sweden.
Focus is on jobs, schools and healthcare.

Police is busy improving statistics on "number of solved crime".
They concentrate on easily solved things like petty narcotics crime and
speeding tickets, while pretending to look at other crimes.
We have the lowest number of police per capita in Europe, so they are overworked.

If PKK is extorting Kurds, they are stupid. Frauding the governments is much more profitable.

You must consider that this situation is costing lives of people in Turkey, so Turkey doing anything that it sees as neccessary to stop their activity is only natural.

Israel for exsample is also hunting Hamas internationally, Turkey isnt alone in this game.

 

[Penguin]

Well its in the hands of NL goverment.

No, it isn't. Not solely, you know damn well.

You must consider that this situation is costing lives of people in Turkey, so Turkey doing anything that it sees as neccessary to stop their activity is only natural.

Israel for exsample is also hunting Hamas internationally, Turkey isnt alone in this game.

If you don't respect other countries' sovereignty, how can you expect ever to join EU?

 

[-SINAN-]

If you don't respect other countries' sovereignty, how can you expect ever to join EU?

Vice versa.

You know, this "If you don't dance to our tune, you won't be getting into EU" getting really old. For that reason, negotiations not progressing since years.

No, it isn't. Not solely, you know damn well.

Who rules the country then ?