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Turkey and the European Union: A tiny thaw? | THE ECONOMIST

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Many Turks have given up, but progress towards the EU inches forward

Feb 23rd 2013 | ISTANBUL

AFTER 30 months in the deep freeze Turkey’s bid to join the European Union is for once warming a bit. France, which under Nicolas Sarkozy’s presidency blocked five of the 35 chapters that must be completed, has lifted its veto on one to do with regional aid. In Cyprus Nicos Anastasiades has a big lead in the presidential election (see article). He backed a 2004 UN plan to reunify the island that was accepted by Turkish-Cypriots but rejected by Greek-Cypriots. He could give Cyprus’s settlement talks a new push that might lead to its dropping some of its own vetoes on new chapters. Queasiness over letting in a big, powerful and prickly Muslim country aside, the EU’s biggest gripe with Turkey is its refusal to open ports to Greek-Cypriot vessels.

“No force can tear us away from Europe,” said Turkey’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, at a recent conference. Yet Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the prime minister, has talked of joining the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation with Russia, China, and Central Asia (he later recanted). Such frustration is understandable: popular Turkish support for EU membership has fallen from over 70% when talks began in 2005 to as low as 33%. Nothing grates more than the various forms of watered-down membership touted by Germany’s Angela Merkel and other naysayers like the Austrians and the Dutch. “Membership is like pregnancy: you either are or you aren’t. There is no halfway position,” scoffs Egemen Bagis, Turkey’s Europe minister.

Under Mr Erdogan’s Justice and Development (AK) party, Turkey’s economy has become the world’s 17th-biggest. “European excuses about Turkey being a poor country are rubbish,” says Cengiz Aktar, an academic and EU specialist. Ten years of AK rule has also made Turkey more democratic. With scores of generals in jail on coup-plotting charges, the army has lost power. Yet Mr Erdogan’s critics say that, after a decade in government with weak opposition, AK has become arrogant and overbearing. Turkey, says the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists, is the “the world’s leading jailer” of reporters, with at least 49 hacks behind bars. Dissidents are jailed under vague anti-terror laws. Mr Bagis’s response—“I’m not saying Turkey is perfect. But it is better than yesterday’s Turkey”—will not satisfy many.

Turkey is also flexing its muscles abroad. Foreign aid has risen 27-fold in the past decade. But a car bomb that killed many Turks on the border with Syria this week was a brutal reminder of the risks in Turkey’s support for rebels against Bashar Assad, Syria’s president. The West’s failure to intervene has left Turkey isolated. Indeed, a thaw with Europe could not have come at a better time. Mr Erdogan has resumed peace talks with the jailed Kurdish leader, Abdullah Ocalan. The lure of EU membership could propel both Turks and Kurds into a deal. Some provisions would have to go into the new constitution that the parliament is trying, amid much squabbling, to draft. The Kurds insist that more regional autonomy be one of them. The unfrozen EU chapter on regional aid, says Mr Aktar, “meshes perfectly with this”.

Turkey and the European Union: A tiny thaw? | The Economist
 
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Why is it so important for Turkey to join European Union?! When do you want to understand?! Joining Euro Zone is gonna cost you your independence! You have already complied with so many of their "guidelines" and they haven't let you in yet! There are like 50 Muslim countries in the world!! Why not a Muslim Union?!
 
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Why is it so important for Turkey to join European Union?! When do you want to understand?! Joining Euro Zone is gonna cost you your independence! You have already complied with so many of their "guidelines" and they haven't let you in yet! There are like 50 Muslim countries in the world!! Why not a Muslim Union?!

Exactly, that's what I want. :)
 
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Why is it so important for Turkey to join European Union?! When do you want to understand?! Joining Euro Zone is gonna cost you your independence! You have already complied with so many of their "guidelines" and they haven't let you in yet! There are like 50 Muslim countries in the world!! Why not a Muslim Union?!
Turkish officials stated that even if they join to EU they won't change currency to Euro over and over again.
And for the other Union thing, we have our own irredentist policies:
Pan-Turkism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Turkish officials stated that even if they join to EU they won't change currency to Euro over and over again.
And for the other Union thing, we have our own irredentist policies.

So does everyone my friend, we have Pan-Iranism, Arabs have Pan-Arabism, believe me everyone have their own "ism", even in a country such as United States there is that infamous North versus South dilemma, but all in all, collaboration should still be possible.
 
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Turkey under AKP has perfectly used EU membership standardization to curb the Kemalist/Military nexus now Erodogan has already achieved, what he wanted from EU membership process. In my opinion, if ever Turkey would be asked to join EU then it might go to Norway's way of referendum and most of Turks will vote against the joining of EU.
 
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Turkey under AKP has perfectly used EU membership standardization to curb the Kemalist/Military nexus now Erodogan has already achieved, what he wanted from EU membership process. In my opinion, if ever Turkey would be asked to join EU then it might go to Norway's way of referendum and most of Turks will vote against the joining of EU.

Great Post.

A booming Turkey, forecast to grow around 5% a year till the end of this decade, would have little interest in joining the failing EU. For Turkey the EU was mainly about money and now that the Turks are getting rich outside the EU then will not want to join it any more.
 
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Great Post.

A booming Turkey, forecast to grow around 5% a year till the end of this decade, would have little interest in joining the failing EU. For Turkey the EU was mainly about money and now that the Turks are getting rich outside the EU then will not want to join it any more.

L

Not only about money there are other factors too, in five years time or so if both the parties will be agreed for Turkish induction, till that time a rising Turkey would be trillion $ + economy with largest armed forces in Europe and more inclined towards its ottoman Moslem identity. That will be too much of weight to be adjusted inside the framework of moribund European Union.
The most important question here is that the EU ready compromise to its entirely Christian club framework
 
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Europe already has some 30-45 million Muslims living in its heartland...if Turkey joins, there would be more than 100 million Muslims in Europe!!!

Turkey would be the largest country in terms of population (in coming decades) and hence will have the most influence in EU.

Turkey will have the largest young population in Europe in next two years...Rightist parties are already mad over growing Islamic presence in Europe...how will they tolerate the fact that a Muslim nation has now become one of the most powerful state in Europe? They'll go bizark!!! :lol:

But Europe needs Turkish innovation, industry, young population, economic growth etc...

Under Islamist AKP, Turkey has really rise Mashallah...

Today, Turkey has more options than the Europe!

Lets see what happens..
 
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Europe already has some 30-45 million Muslims living in its heartland...if Turkey joins, there would be more than 100 million Muslims in Europe!!!

Turkey would be the largest country in terms of population (in coming decades) and hence will have the most influence in EU.

Turkey will have the largest young population in Europe in next two years...Rightist parties are already mad over growing Islamic presence in Europe...how will they tolerate the fact that a Muslim nation has now become one of the most powerful state in Europe? They'll go bizark!!! :lol:

Lets see what happens..

Germany and France challange with England over the control of Union. In the meantime, German and French interests in Greece are clashing. US wants to increase its influence over Europe via its Anglo-Saxon brothers. Germany wants to be the leader, so does France.
Game of Thrones, anyone?

PS: Turkey is vital for US for now. This is why Americans want to secure status quo in Aegean. IF Turkey enters to EU, US will be the controller of it.
 
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Europe already has some 30-45 million Muslims living in its heartland...if Turkey joins, there would be more than 100 million Muslims in Europe!!!

Turkey would be the largest country in terms of population (in coming decades) and hence will have the most influence in EU.

Turkey will have the largest young population in Europe in next two years...Rightist parties are already mad over growing Islamic presence in Europe...how will they tolerate the fact that a Muslim nation has now become one of the most powerful state in Europe? They'll go bizark!!! :lol:

But Europe needs Turkish innovation, industry, young population, economic growth etc...

Under Islamist AKP, Turkey has really rise Mashallah...

Today, Turkey has more options than the Europe!

Lets see what happens..

Not only this, in addition to what you explained another factor is very important to be discussed in this regard is Turkish dynamism in Middle East and in all probability, if Turkey will be able to manage its Kurdish issue then region from Mesopotamia to Levant will merge/federate with The Turkey in that case EU might get extended in to deep Muslim lands then whole concept of EU will be degenerated.
 
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Germany and France challange with England over the control of Union. In the meantime, German and French interests in Greece are clashing. US wants to increase its influence over Europe via its Anglo-Saxon brothers. Germany wants to be the leader, so does France.
Game of Thrones, anyone?

PS: Turkey is vital for US for now. This is why Americans want to secure status quo in Aegean. IF Turkey enters to EU, US will be the controller of it.

Since you are from Istanbul and hence I'll presume staunchly secular--what is YOUR views regarding the West? Favorable, unfavorable? Do you want Turkey to join EU? Under some conditions (like having own currency etc etc)? or just plain no?

PS. What are your views of AKP? Do you think there is some political party in Turkey that can challenge AKP now?
 
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Germany and France challange with England over the control of Union. In the meantime, German and French interests in Greece are clashing. US wants to increase its influence over Europe via its Anglo-Saxon brothers. Germany wants to be the leader, so does France.
Game of Thrones, anyone?

PS: Turkey is vital for US for now. This is why Americans want to secure status quo in Aegean. IF Turkey enters to EU, US will be the controller of it.

Indeed all those problems created for Turkiye's EU membership is all about EU's leadership(nothing to with Turkiye being muslim country while many muslims in PDF believe so) : On one side we have Germany-France duo(which is current rulers of EU) represents Anti-Turkiye side which blocks membership in every unimaginable way and on other side we have Pro-US Europen countries lead by UK represents US Orbit againts Germany-France leadership in EU gives Turkiye full support.But lately actions of UK shows us she is finally give up to try taking EU leadership from Germany-France now she wants to destroy whole EU by using current economic problems and causing more crisis , UK is called a trojan horse by many Pro-Germany/France leadership EU citizens for a very good reason.
 
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Since you are from Istanbul and hence I'll presume staunchly secular--what is YOUR views regarding the West? Favorable, unfavorable? Do you want Turkey to join EU? Under some conditions (like having own currency etc etc)? or just plain no?

PS. What are your views of AKP? Do you think there is some political party in Turkey that can challenge AKP now?

Lol wut? AKP won elections here.
 
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a good interview worth reading


Interview with Kemal Dervis, former Turkish minister of economic affairs

“Turkey may take another look at the current accession process”


The EU referendum announced by the British prime minister has - paradoxically - opened a door for Turkey, Kemal Dervis argues. The former Turkish minister of economic affairs, who also headed the United Nations Development Programme and who currently fills the post of vice-president and director of the Brookings Institution in Washington, calls for a redefinition of Turkey’s EU accession process. Turkey may follow the path of the UK and seek a less integrated status, Dervis says in an interview withEuropolitics.

Turkey’s EU accession negotiations stumble over the issue of Cyprus. How can this problem be overcome?

Let’s look at this from a general point of view. The EU has to redefine and reinvent its institutions. As the British prime minister said the other day: when the debt crisis is over, we will have a eurozone that will be very different from what it is today. There is a pretty broad agreement that – while it will take some time – the eurozone will emerge more integrated, with more sovereignty-sharing and with a structure where the Commission and the member states’ finance ministers have supervision authority over the members of the eurozone. Some countries might not be ready or willing to have that degree of sovereignty-sharing, like the UK. If there are some more countries like Sweden, Denmark or from Eastern Europe like Bulgaria and Romania it is not unlikely that there will be two groups in the European Union: one within the eurozone and another group that will want to stay in the EU but will not want to have that degree of sovereignty-sharing.

How would that be different from today’s situation where you have EU member states inside and outside the eurozone or Schengen?

With the exception of the UK and Denmark, which have opt-out clauses in the treaty, those that are not part of the eurozone today are obliged to prepare themselves for joining it, like Poland, Romania or Bulgaria - and also Turkey, if the EU accession negotiations are ever to succeed. The present structure foresees that the eurozone is the final destination for everybody. I hope and I don’t think the UK will exit the EU. But if the eurozone will integrate further you will, for example, also end up with a two-tier European Parliament.

Is a two-tier EU a healthy construction?

I don’t see an alternative. I am a pro-European and I wouldn’t mind a much closer union of everybody. But I don’t think that will happen. If the choice is: letting go a country as important in the world as the UK versus figuring out an institutional setup where the British can remain as full members but not of the eurozone and its possible future mechanisms, I think Europe should make an effort and try to find a way to do this. It doesn’t mean that every country can cherry-pick. There will have to be some common rules, maybe with some specific limited rules applying to some countries. It is in that context of reinvention that I say Turkey may take another look at the current accession process and that Europe may take another look, too. Because if that new Europe emerges out of the crisis then the Turkish membership issue arises in a somewhat different framework. It may be easier for both sides if Turkey has a status like Sweden, the UK or Denmark in this new construction that does not exist yet. It will be less sovereignty-sharing than what Germany, France or Austria will have.

It sounds a bit like the old offer of a “privileged partnership” to Turkey.

It is not the same because the UK is not a privileged partner either. It is a full member. In a possible new setting, the European Parliament would meet in two sessions with elected Turkish deputies sitting with the British and the Swedish ones, not with the German deputies. The Turkish deputies would not make decisions on the eurozone but on other parts of the Union. The Turkish finance minister would be a member of the Ecofin but not of the Eurogroup.

For Turkey, all this would not resolve the Cyprus problem and the Ankara Protocol.

These problems obviously need to be solved first.

To what extent is Turkey mentally ready to share sovereignty?

Turkey is ready for this to the extent a country like Sweden is willing to share sovereignty, but perhaps not as Germany.

What reactions do you get from Turkey to your idea of two different types of EU membership?

I get different reactions from my friends. Some people think that this is a good idea worth pursuing. Others say we have to be a member of the eurozone, no matter how, because otherwise we will not be part of the decision making process. And I have friends who are telling me: you are dreaming, forget about the EU, it will not happen either this way or the other. I expect a factual, cool-headed debate on all three options, rather than continuing as if Europe was not changing. Turkey has to decide if it wants to continue with Europe and which Europe it wants to be part of.

12/02/2013
 
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