Turk-Russian Approach: Russia is ready to offer joint production of Su-57 fighters to Ankara

[Peaceful Civilian]

Russian fighters are not par with western technology. Also Russia have history they don't deliver on time. Russia is not substitute of western countries.

 

[LeGenD]

Sensors

F-35A : AESA Radar
SU-57 : AESA Radar + IRST

AESA + RWR + EOTS + DAS + CNI + HMDS

The entire sensor architecture of F-35A is ELECTRONICALLY FUSED to begin with.

Recommended: https://sldinfo.com/2013/10/the-imp...5th-generation-fighters-on-combat-capability/

Super cruise

F-35A : No
SU-57 : Yes

F-35A supercruise = MACH 1.2

Su-57 supercruise = MACH 1.3 (with latest engines which are undergoing trials at the moment)

Thurst vectoring control ( TVC )

F-35A : No
SU-57 : Yes

F-35C have Thrust Vectoring to facilitate its vertical take-off and landing capabilities.

Maneuverability

F-35A : Low
SU-57 : Very high

Recommended: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/watch-the-f-35-pull-off-some-mighty-impressive-flying-m-1831751308

Pilots of F-35 have reported 9+ g turns and much more.

"A former F-15C instructor pilot said he consistently beat his former jet in mock dogfights." - NI

Link: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...1-air-force-pilots-who-flew-stealth-jet-34927

Payload

F-35A : 4 air to air missiles
SU-57 : 8 air to air missiles

Max altitude

F-35A : 15 km
SU-57 : 20 km

Max speed

F-35A : mach 1,6
SU-57 : mach 2

These figures are understated for F-35 in public domain.

Russian jets are twin-engine designs on average and will be impressive in these aspects accordingly, but do these make much difference in warfare?

Consider French Mirage F1 for reference.

Maximum speed = 1,453 MPH
Maximum ceiling = 65,615 feet

And what became of them in the Persian Gulf War (1991)?

Source: http://www.rjlee.org/blog/2012/04/08/the-mystery-of-wichita-103/

Notice French Mirage F1EQ in the long list of victims? I notice several in the list. American jets made short work of them during aerial engagements.

Range

F-35A : 2200 km
SU-57 : 3500 km

Russian jets are twin-engine designs on average and will have an impressive ferry range accordingly; this is in line with Russian doctrine of warfare. Just take a look at Russian geography.

Baseline ferry range of F-35 variants is 2222 KM which is really impressive with a single engine. Equip F-35 variants with CFTs and expand its ferry range much further.

SU-57's 3D thrust vector jets ...... ( a design which the US does not have )

Again, this prove nothing. Russian jets are distinct designs on average and their maneuverability characteristics also vary accordingly.

CONVENTIONAL black-and-white comparisons of the characteristics of complex machines like Jet fighters are ill-advised.

He doesnt need any access. Sukhoi just created 3d models of F-22 and PAK FA airframes, then calculated and compared their RCS. SU-57 and F-22 actually have a lot in common in frontal and side aspects and there is nothing strange if SU-57 have lower RCS than F-22 from some of angles.

3D models? Oh well.... Very authentic.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

AESA + RWR + EOTS + DAS + CNI + HMDS

The entire sensor architecture of F-35A is ELECTRONICALLY FUSED to begin with.

Recommended: https://sldinfo.com/2013/10/the-imp...5th-generation-fighters-on-combat-capability/





F-35A supercruise = MACH 1.2

Su-57 supercruise = MACH 1.3 (with latest engines which are undergoing trials at the moment)


F-35C have Thrust Vectoring to facilitate its vertical take-off and landing capabilities.





Recommended: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/watch-the-f-35-pull-off-some-mighty-impressive-flying-m-1831751308

Pilots of F-35 have reported 9+ g turns and much more.

"A former F-15C instructor pilot said he consistently beat his former jet in mock dogfights." - NI

Link: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...1-air-force-pilots-who-flew-stealth-jet-34927

These figures are understated for F-35 in public domain.

Russian jets are twin-engine designs on average and will be impressive in these aspects accordingly, but do these make much difference in warfare?

Consider French Mirage F1 for reference.

Maximum speed = 1,453 MPH
Maximum ceiling = 65,615 feet

And what became of them in the Persian Gulf War (1991)?

Source: http://www.rjlee.org/blog/2012/04/08/the-mystery-of-wichita-103/

American jets made shot work of them during aerial engagements.



Russian jets are twin-engine designs on average and will have an impressive ferry range accordingly; this is in line with Russian doctrine of warfare. Just take a look at Russian geography.

Baseline ferry range of F-35 variants is 2222 KM which is really impressive with a single engine. Equip F-35 variants with CFTs and expand its ferry range much further.

Again, this prove nothing.

Russian jets are distinct designs on average and their maneuverability characteristics also vary accordingly.


3D models? Oh well....

Are you serious? Su-57 is way better. F-35 is F-16 replacement. Su-57 is Su-27 replacement. Not even in the same class, buddy.

 

[LeGenD]

Are you serious? Su-57 is way better. F-35 is F-16 replacement. Su-57 is Su-27 replacement. Not even in the same class, buddy.

Oh please....

I am not interested in your subjectivity. Do not quote my posts unnecessarily.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Oh please....

I am not interested in your subjectivity. Do not quote my posts unnecessarily.

F-35 crashes like poop. It ain't reliable.

 

[Mithridates]

F-22A and F-35 variants are well-researched and tested VLO designs.

how you know??

 

[OIO]

35 years ago China was so poor and backward country

and China always bought weapons from Russians and Ukranians to copy them ( Aircrafts,Fighter Jets,Helicopters,Anti ship Missiles , Air Defense Systems , MLRS , Warships and even Aircraft Carrier )

-- even Russia designed , developed ,produced and gave Z-10 Attack Helicopter to China
-- China bought Sikorsky S-76D Helicopter and copied it
-- Israel gave American radar,electro-optics and air to air missile , aircraft technologies to China
-- Ukraine sold long range Cruise Missile to both China and Iran .. and Chiana-Iran copied Soviet long range Cruise Missile technology
-- France,Ukraine,Russia helped China to develop gas turbine engine
-- even China hacked F-35 infos from Australia and copied F-35

and to develop nuclear weapon easier than to develop Fighter Jet and gas turbine engine

Turkey can develop nuclear weapon in a year but Turkey has signed treaty on the non proliferation of Nuclear Weapons


We dont care about China or anybody ....... We have our own plan to become independent country in military industry in the next 15 years . therefore Turkey develops 600+ military projects for over $60 billion

copy & paste is not so easy, why don't you copy a F-16?

 

[beijingwalker]

What caused the recent F-35 crash?

 

[zzzz]

F-35A supercruise = MACH 1.2

Su-57 supercruise = MACH 1.3 (with latest engines which are undergoing trials at the moment)

The only way the flying brick F-35 can supercruise if it drops all its weapons and fuel.
Thrust to weight ratio of F-35: 0.97
Thrust to weight ratio of SU-57 with current engines: 1.05
Thrust to weight ratio of SU-57 with new engines: 1.21

Thrust to weight ratio of SU-35: 1.02

You have confused supercruise figures of SU-35 with SU-57.

3D models? Oh well.... Very authentic.

This is how you design a plane now a days. First build 3d model that meets your requrements (aerodynamic and stealth) then produce it phisically. The difference in actual results will be minimal if you are competent enough.

 

[cabatli_53]

I think If F35 had such an unique and unrivalled stealth design features, US would have never allowed to sell them abroad. However, F35 is a multinational stealth program and US aims to gain impressive money with exporting them to ally all around the World. I mean It will be the new F16 of the US with advanced network and data processing features with an avarage stealth coating fuselage not better than Su-57 so I don’t think It hosts very special features in terms of getting stealth. In the mean time, This aircraft have joined into strike operations in Syria and It seems F35 will show off its strength in many different places of the World so stealth characteristics of them have already been collected by enemy radars and electronic warfar sensors. There won’t remain anything secret about them within 2-3 years but F-22 is a different story to begin with. Although It is the design of 30 years ago, F22 hosts something very special which enables US to keep it away from not only costumers but also hot conflict zone so Purchasing Su-57 (Likely) would cost many political and economical consequences for Turkey but I don’t think Su-57 can perform less than F35 in crisis times.

 

[AUz]

F-35's are the best? even the American Air Force have issues making that claim and here we have people claiming F-35 to be the best.

Yes, F-35s are the best available commercial fifth generation fighter jets. Overall, its F-22 obviously but that's not available for export.

You have to be stupid to dispute that.

 

[LeGenD]

The only way the flying brick F-35 can supercruise if it drops all its weapons and fuel.
Trust to weight ratio of F-35: 0.97
Trust to weight ratio of SU-57 with current engines: 1.05
Trust to weight ratio of SU-57 with new engines: 1.21

You have confused supercruise figures of SU-35 with SU-57.

T/W ratio of F-35 exceeds 1:1 in reality.

This is how you design a plane now a days. First build 3d model that meets your requrements (aerodynamic and stealth) then produce it phisically. The difference in actual results will be minimal if you are competent enough.

Dude, this is the starting point. A lot happens afterwards...

Sukhoi can never reliably tell or model RCS output of F-22A Raptor or its design characteristics on the whole. There is so much in a Jet fighter that influence its RCS output to begin with.

 

[MMM-E]

.

F-35 uses GaAS AESA. APG-81 has RCS of 1 at 150km
SU-57 uses GaN AESA . N036 has RCS of 1 at 400km

( N036 L-band radar array will alert its pilots to the general vicinity of enemy 5th generation stealth fighters such as F-35 )

-- SU-57's Passive sensor IRST ( infrared search and tack system ) .... infrared camera that scans a head of the aircraft up to 30 km and since it does not emit a signal the enemy can not detect that you have them locked up
( potentially helping it find stealth aircraft at close ranges )

-- Russia has advanced electronic warfare capabilities and SU-57 is equipped with digital radio frequency memory (DRFM) jammers that can blind the air to air missiles active radar seeker

-- SU-57 has two engines with more agile characteristics, higher ceiling, impressive ferry range and more ruggedly built than the F35

-- F-35A has no Thurst vectoring control ( TVC ) , even F-22 has 2D thrust vector jets ..... but SU-57 has 3D thrust vector jets which the US Fighter Jets do not have

-- The internal payload = F-35A : 4 air to air missiles ..... SU-57 : 8 air to air missiles


so Turkish design cockpit , electronics , mission computer , IFF system , self protection electronic warfare suite , national data link , network centric warfare and weapons can make SU-57 more dangerous under the control of crazy talented and well trained Turkish Pilots

 

[Mithridates]

Pilots of F-35 have reported 9+ g turns and much more.

you got it wrong bro. g force just shows how strong the structure is. the most important things are max angle of attack, thrust/weight ratio and turn ratio. for example f-5, f-14 and f-18 have +7g limit but they are more maneuverable than 9g f-15 or su-24 and f-4 both have +6g limit but turn ratio of f-4 is better and it's more maneuverable than su-24. also as i can remember su-57 can withstand up to 20g force if you use it as drone (human can withstand up to 9g with g suit).
f-35 has better sensors compared to pak-fa but SU has better EW and is more maneuverable.

also a funny fact, based on RCS numbers (0.1 for SU and .005 for f-35) and their radar ranges (450 and 150), both planes are able to track other as far as 80 kms. so the advantage is with the one that has better EW and ECM (su-57). if sukhoi manage to decrease the RCS number even further, the pak-fa would become a really deadly platform.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

also a funny fact, based on RCS numbers (0.1 for SU and .005 for f-35)

RCS is classified. NO one knows their numbers except MAYBE the CEOs for their companies and that's a big MAYBE.

-- SU-57 has two engines with more agile characteristics, higher ceiling, impressive ferry range and more ruggedly built than the F35

Su-57 compared to F-35 is like F-18E compared to F-16. Bigger, twin engined, but each engine is not as powerful because smaller.