Tunisia Lifts Ban on Muslim Women Marrying non-Muslims

[Indus Pakistan]

I wonder if China can

Yes it can. We were once Buddhists. Buddhism travelled to China from Taxila, Pakistan along what is Silk Road and the modern Karakorum Highway. When we were Buddhist I am sure our ancestors screamed as loudly about virtues of Buddhism - the great relics of that period still stand in Taxila/Gandhara region of Pakistan and attest to the fervour of the locals. So nothing is fixed other than change. Today we croak another song - loudly.

As much as Turkey evolve as you mention consequent on being close to Europe whose magnet pull wrought through economic/military supremacy change inside Turkey. In the same way as Chinese shadow rises in Pakistan as it already is under CPEC with $65 billion investment with more to follow will begin a change in direction. The economic opportunities that will be offered will be conductive to change and to sing along with the Chinese will require adaption. You hardly think a mullah spouting out blasphemy at eery corner with a huge crowd behind him is going to please the Chinese or help CPEC move forward. The powers that be in Pakistan will slowly begin to change the narrative in opposite direction to what they have peddled for the last seven decades. And it is a known fact that trade and economic revolutions usher in social/religious change. All are linked. I have no doubt that for Pakistan to really tango with a uber athiest country will require Pakistan to adapt.

The mountain high and ocean deep friendship is about to get consummated. Before this it was all talk. Now it will get real. It already slowly is with the increasing number of Chinese moving to Pakistan.

 

[Solomon2]

Then it's not so much a issue as to the scripture but rather the need to relax with the literal translation/application -

Both the U.S. Constitution and Israel's Basic Law are secular instruments with content that at most parallels the Bible and Torah, rather than leaning upon them as central. They have nothing to do with "literal translation/application" of the Torah and Bible so firebrands can't wave religion around as a reason to undermine the government or people's guaranteed rights and liberties

The Muslim societies in the vanguard of development like Turkey, Tunisia or Bosnian Muslims have already broached this and are in process of consolidation.

Ataturk quickly gave up any idea of reforming Islam in favor of army-guaranteed secular rule which Erdogan has now destroyed, most Bosnians reject "literal" Islam (and are heavily pro-Israel), and Tunisia is, I think, currently too dynamic for non-Tunisians to follow.

Pakistan on the other hand is about two centuries behind.

Pakistanis think "truth" is determined by power. Time alone does not change such a mentality; initiative does.

...Which is why I am rather excited about the friendship between a uber-athiest hyperpower and a Islamic wannabe but a bankrupt Medieval society Pakistan. Only good can come out of it.

It looks more like the opposite, doesn't it? The more power and wealth Pakistan gains from its relationship with the U.S., the more the instruments of coercion are empowered and the more damage they can do to ordinary folk, both at home and abroad.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Time alone does not change such a mentality

If a mentality so rampant, so motivated, so self assured that it articulated a entire nation of 80 million to kill on a scale, industrial scale 6 million Jews as if they were insects - if such a mentality can within a generation change to being Europe's guiding light I think anything is possible. Don't you think so?

instruments of coercion

Which instrument - do please detail.

more damage they can do to ordinary folk, both at home and abroad.

What damage. What more damage then guns in USA or US support for KSA that hatched the 9/11 attack?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Who's to say who is or isn't a Muslim. I am atheist but there no authority who can say I am nor I am not Muslim.

 

[Corona]

Yes it can. We were once Buddhists. Buddhism travelled to China from Taxila, Pakistan along what is Silk Road and the modern Karakorum Highway. When we were Buddhist I am sure our ancestors screamed as loudly about virtues of Buddhism - the great relics of that period still stand in Taxila/Gandhara region of Pakistan and attest to the fervour of the locals. So nothing is fixed other than change. Today we croak another song - loudly.

As much as Turkey evolve as you mention consequent on being close to Europe whose magnet pull wrought through economic/military supremacy change inside Turkey. In the same way as Chinese shadow rises in Pakistan as it already is under CPEC with $65 billion investment with more to follow will begin a change in direction. The economic opportunities that will be offered will be conductive to change and to sing along with the Chinese will require adaption. You hardly think a mullah spouting out blasphemy at eery corner with a huge crowd behind him is going to please the Chinese or help CPEC move forward. The powers that be in Pakistan will slowly begin to change the narrative in opposite direction to what they have peddled for the last seven decades. And it is a known fact that trade and economic revolutions usher in social/religious change. All are linked. I have no doubt that for Pakistan to really tango with a uber athiest country will require Pakistan to adapt.

The mountain high and ocean deep friendship is about to get consummated. Before this it was all talk. Now it will get real. It already slowly is with the increasing number of Chinese moving to Pakistan.

Mullahs of any religion will fight against change. You could bet on their nationalism, their patriotism, etc. to see the benefits change will bring, but I highly doubt it. Economic revolutions can develop a country and change perceptions, but they don't always do so willingly. And Pakistan is highly religious. Most Pakistanis won't compromise religion. I'm not saying that it's impossible, I'm saying that to achieve it, you'll have to fight some well entrenched religious notions.
The powers that be, if you're referring to the political elite, are already firmly in the China camp. It's not them that needs convincing. What's stopping a scenario where at some point in the future, a religious head declares that 'Pakistan' has been lead away from it's path by these politicians and Chinese influences? It could turn into a situation where a progressive Pakistan is at war with religious Pakistan.
Like you said, Pakistan was once Buddhist. How do you think the average Pakistani will react if you tell him that in 70 years, we can say we were 'once Muslims'.

 

[Rafi]

Freedom of thought and conscience are gifts from God.

 

[Corona]

If a mentality so rampant, so motivated, so self assured that it articulated a entire nation of 80 million to kill on a scale, industrial scale 6 million Jews as if they were insects - if such a mentality can within a generation change to being Europe's guiding light I think anything is possible. Don't you think so?

To be fair, Germany was completely and utterly annihilated after the war. It's wasn't that much of a challenge instill a new mentality when the old one doesn't exist anymore. Easier to build something new than to change something that has existed for a long time. Could be applied to the Japanese scenario as well.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan is highly religious

True or more like pretend they are.

Most Pakistanis won't compromise religion

Money speaks. Most will compromise if the dough is there. I see it all the time in UK.

you'll have to fight some well entrenched religious notions.

True. To change anything requires vigour.

he powers that be, if you're referring to the political elite, are already firmly in the China camp

True. They are. But think about this. How did Pakistan become what it is now? Seven decades of elite using religion. I could even argue that Islam was even used by ML in the run to 1947. Ever since at every turn this winning formula of using religion has been used by every leader lacking any legitimate currency. It has been a incremental process where more doses of religion was used by the elite to extend their rule and plunder the people. Religion has been the perfect tool of a pacious elite to hide behind. Along the way it did not help that our great 'ally' the USA cultivated far right as means to counter the left and the Afghan jihad was the apogee of this process. This brought the mullah/USA/elite in a common cause.

Today that very elite is beholden to China. And the Chinese will begin to push this elite to begin the process of undoing what they have been doing for the last 70 years. There will not be any war between the mullah and the elite. The mullah class in Pakistan unlike Iran is badly fractured. They spend more time fighting each other over such matters as length of beard, colour of turban and who is going to be boss-mullah then against other political forces. In addition Pakistani mullahs can be bought with diesel, dollars or Yuans - ask Mullah Diesel.

All that is required is long term plan, money, perseverance and good sized stick. China has those qualities and resources in abundance. China is going rise to a superpower and within that story Pakistan will play a role. CPEC is proof of it. Chinese are not known for chucking money about.

All that is required is long term plan

But it will take time.

 

[Corona]

True or more like pretend they are.

True. They are. But think about this. How did Pakistan become what it is now? Seven decades of elite using religion. I could even argue that Islam was even used by ML in the run to 1947. Ever since at every turn this winning formula of using religion has been used by every leader lacking any legitimate currency. It has been a incremental process where more doses of religion was used by the elite to extend their rule and plunder the people. Religion has been the perfect tool of a pacious elite to hide behind. Along the way it did not help that our great 'ally' the USA cultivated far right as means to counter the left and the Afghan jihad was the apogee of this process. This brought the mullah/USA/elite in a common cause.

Today that very elite is beholden to China. And the Chinese will begin to push this elite to begin the process of undoing what they have been doing for the last 70 years. There will not be any war between the mullah and the elite. The mullah class in Pakistan unlike Iran is badly fractured. They spend more time fighting each other over such matters as length of beard, colour of turban and who is going to be boss-mullah then against other political forces. In addition Pakistani mullahs can be bought with diesel, dollars or Yuans - ask Mullah Diesel.

All that is required is long term plan, money, perseverance and good sized stick. China has those qualities and resources in abundance. China is going rise to a superpower and within that story Pakistan will play a role. CPEC is proof of it. Chinese are not known for chucking money about.

I feel like religion as a political tool is out of the hands of the elite and in full autopilot mode now. It happened in Afghanistan, it could potentially happen again.
Just make sure you don't give the mullahs a reason to unite when you bring about change. I've seen that happen too.

 

[Ocean]

Mate, in general Muslims are not allowed to marry outside of their religion both men and women. Though Muslim men gotan exception to marry women of the Ah-alKitab i.e people of the book (Jews and Christians only) but even that is discouraged and subject to a lot of pre-conditions. Muslim women are not allowed because they being fairer gender will face much bigger issues so they are not allowed. It is the clear verdict of holy Quran and the Prophet (Peace be upon him) so there is no difference of opinion on this topic by any scholar.

Yes thats not allowed but its a private matter and a state has no business in deciding someones rishta. If she marries then she will be answerable before Allah. Quran or no hadees says such nikah is invalid , marriage is not allowed but there is no mention IF someone does such nikah will it be valid or not. So state must allow people to marry anyone from any religion its none of their business.

Its her deed shes going to be answerable for that. Lets say your neighbours daughter marries a christian , islamically wrong but how does it effect ur life? Who is state to raise objections on her marriage?

Why stop people from getting hitched to the one they want through state and law? Yes islam says dont but it is silent on validity of such nikahs.

Is it any use that a man will convert to islam just in name for marriage and will continue following his actual faith, such conversions are so wrong and mockery. State should mind its own business when it comes to marriages.

Such laws can also end up forcing a muslim man or a woman to convert to another faith if there are no apostasy laws which again is a man made law absurdly linked to islam.

Ther is no such example from lives of prophet mohammad and hazrat umar where such law was implemented preventing a non muslim man or a woman to marry.

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

And they werent muslim either,

But they weren't secular either.

 

[mahatir]

I strongly believe that we are inch away of dijjal's time or we have entered into his first long day. only Allah knows. its time to protect your Faith now than worrying about whole ummah.

Worry about your own country only there is no such thing called an ummah .

 

[Tom M]

Bug off, this has nothing to do with you.

Absolutely outrageous move, even with the religious ruling removed, why would anyone be a cuck that allows their women to marry men of a completely different culture?

With due respect. As far as I know, marriage is a matter of personal choice irrespective of Nationality and religion. Let those who get married decide for themselves, why do others have to impose their wish/choice on these poor souls ???

 

[mylegend]

Members arguing that Islamic or Sharia nation can be successfully economically do not know economical success rely on productivity not faith. Even oil worth less than productivity, for instance, China import more semiconductor compare to oil, contrary of popular believe. American dollar is valuable because USA is the most technical advance and productive nation in the world, and of course its global military supremacy plays a role.

Gold and silver is not wealth, it is precious metal that has little industrial value. Paper currency has value because the nation that print that guarantee you can used it to exchange for the product of that nation, be it steels, concretes, smart-phone, engines, cars, software. All those product is result of productivity not gold or silver nor military.

Devout Islamic nation is equivalent of non-productive nation. For instance, Muslim lose 1 hours of productivity every day due to praying. Half of population(women) can not reach its full productivity(in a true Islam society, women does contribute to industrial production), so let say women got 10-20% of productivity of men(for caring children and cheer up husband). Islam nation productivity is 0.9(less working hours)*0.5+0.1(not working)*0.5=0.5 or 50% of productivity potential. Western and other secular society can easily reach at least 70-90% of productivity.

That is why in global world, Islamic society meant to fail economically.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

...And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”

It may need some time for you to be convinced about this matter, and for you to think about it. Perhaps you think that if a person follows the truth and enters into it and embraces the one true religion which Allaah has enjoined, then we allow him to leave it quite easily whenever he wants and to utter the words of kufr (disbelief) that put him outside of Islam, so he can reject Allaah, His Messenger, His Books and His religion, and there is no punishment as deterrent, how will that affect him and others who enter the religion?

Do you not see that this would make the one true religion, that everyone should follow, like a shop or store which a person can enter when he wants and leave when he wants, and it may encourage others to forsake the truth.

Moreover, this is not someone who has never known the truth and practiced it and worshipped in accordance with it; rather this is a person who has known the truth, and practiced the religion and done the rituals of worship, so the punishment is no greater than he deserves. Moreover, such strong rulings as this are only applied to such a person whose life is no longer considered to be useful, because he knew the truth and followed the religion, then he left it and forsook it. What soul can be more evil than the soul of such a person?

Hadith =/= Accuracy
therefore
Hadith =/= Qur'an
Hadith =/= Islam

Idiot.

“O You who believe! Enter absolutely into peace (Islam). Do not follow in the footsteps of satan. He is an outright enemy to you.” (Holy Quran: 2, 208)

“There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)

“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

“We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Surat al-Ma’ida, 48)

“God does not love corruption”. (Surat al-Baqara, 205)

[2:195] “And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction, but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.” – Al Baqara

Indeed, Allah enjoins justice, and the doing of good to others; and giving like kindred; and forbids indecency, and manifest evil, and wrongful transgression. He admonished you that you may take heed. (Al Quran 16:91)

And good and evil are not alike. Repel evil with that which is best. And lo, he between whom and thyself was enmity will become as though he were a warm friend. But none is granted it save those who are steadfast; and none is granted it save those who possess a large share of good. (Al Quran 41:35-36)

Those who spend in prosperity and adversity, and those who suppress anger and pardon men; and Allah loves those who do good. (Al Quran 3:135)

And create not disorder in the earth after it has been set in order, and call upon Him in fear and hope. Surely, the mercy of Allah is nigh unto those who do good. (Al Quran 7:57)

And worship Allah and associate naught with Him, and show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbor that is a kinsman and the neighbor that is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, Allah loves not the proud and the boastful. (Al Quran 4:37)

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." (18:29).

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion. (109:6)

A good action and a bad action are not the same. Repel the bad with something better and, if there is enmity between you and someone else, he will be like a bosom friend. (41:34)


Your Hadiths are false, please stop connecting false Hadiths to Islam.