Trump seen hardening line toward Pakistan

[Tom M]

Pakistans anger is understandable but i dont think that pakistan can even think of taking on US, not even in their wildest dreams. How do you tjink can pakistan fight a war with the US? Now dont tell me with the help of china.

With all due respect this is what I was trying to explain to our senior member @maximuswarrior. No one can take on Gaints like U.S.A or Russia unless and until they are capable to take the war to their homeland. The Yankees and Russians have found indirectly in the past and still doing, but that will be fought in a third country as we can see. In the worst case scenario as Mr. maximuswarrior is assuming, even if both China and Russia come to your rescue, the war will be fought in and around Pakistan. The Yankees may loose in terms of men and material or even a large amount of money. But just think who will be the worst hit, even if it means a win ??

 

[maximuswarrior]

Pakistans anger is understandable but i dont think that pakistan can even think of taking on US, not even in their wildest dreams. How do you tjink can pakistan fight a war with the US? Now dont tell me with the help of china.

Who says we are going to directly take them on? If the Americans attack or fan terrorism on our soil we will return the favor. We have our ways. You are smart enough to fill the dots.

 

[cloud4000]

Pakistans anger is understandable but i dont think that pakistan can even think of taking on US, not even in their wildest dreams. How do you tjink can pakistan fight a war with the US? Now dont tell me with the help of china.

This is more boasting from Pakistanis on this forum. You are right, nothing is going to happen in the short-term. Long as Pakistan is economically weak, is dependent on West for aid and loans, and is still buying, or aspiring, to buy Western equipment, the dependency will remain.

You just need to read the multiple F-16 threads floating on PDF to gauge the love affair many have for this aircraft, and schemes to acquire more. I'm sure PAF feels the same way.

As for China, even they are limited to what they can do for Pakistan. They are definitely not going to fight a war over Pakistan unless their interests and/or national security is threatened. But even get to this point, things have to get really bad.

 

[SabzShaheen]

It really should be Pakistan demanding certain actions from the US with regards to our region. If only Pakistani foreign policy wasn't so soft.

 

[maximuswarrior]

This is more boasting from Pakistanis on this forum. You are right, nothing is going to happen in the short-term. Long as Pakistan is economically weak, is dependent on West for aid and loans, and is still buying, or aspiring, to buy Western equipment, the dependency will remain.

You just need to read the multiple F-16 threads floating on PDF to gauge the love affair many have for this aircraft, and schemes to acquire more. I'm sure PAF feels the same way.

As for China, even they are limited to what they can do for Pakistan. They are definitely not going to fight a war over Pakistan unless their interests and/or national security is threatened. But even get to this point, things have to get really bad.

Pakistan doesn't get Western military equipment. Pakistan is working with China on that front. Pakistan receives almost all military equipment from China. Stop fabricating stuff.

LOL so much for the F-16 that the Americans boycotted. You think Pakistan will ever get them from the Americans? Think again. This carrot is out of date. The Americans got nothing to offer to Pakistan at this stage even if they wanted to.

China, Russia and others are already playing their part in Afghanistan. Doesn't America accuse Russia of aiding the Taliban? You need to catch up because the war in Syria and Afghanistan have become much more complex than only pointing fingers at Pakistan. Blaming Pakistan will get you only so far.

America can't even defeat ISIS at the moment. Some even say that America created them and sponsors them. Like I said man. Just leave Pakistan as it is. It is beyond American comprehension.

 

[Rational guy]

Who says we are going to directly take them on? If the Americans attack or fan terrorism on our soil we will return the favor. We have our ways. You are smart enough to fill the dots.

Pakistan doesn't get Western military equipment. Pakistan is working with China on that front. Stop fabricating stuff.

LOL so much for the F-16 that the Americans boycotted. You think Pakistan will ever get them from the Americans? Think again.

China, Russia and others are already playing their part in Afghanistan. Doesn't America accuse Russia of aiding the Taliban? You need to catch up because the war in Syria and Afghanistan have become much more complex than only pointing fingers at Pakistan. Blaming Pakistan will get you only so far.

America can't even defeat ISIS at the moment. Some even say that America created them and sponsors them. Like I said man. Just leave Pakistan as it is. It is beyond American comprehension.

Trust me mate, americans have more than a thousand ways to make pakistan comply, ok tell me one thing where do you think you can get spares for say your f16s, pc3 orions etc?

 

[cloud4000]

Pakistan doesn't get Western military equipment. Pakistan is working with China on that front. Stop fabricating stuff.

That is not true. China might be the biggest provider, but Pakistan still buys equipment from Western countries, including AH-1z helicopters form US; and recently placed orders for SAAB 2000 Erieye.

LOL so much for the F-16 that the Americans boycotted. You think Pakistan will ever get them from the Americans? Think again.

Perhaps. But it's not stopping Pakistan from trying...and hoping.

China, Russia and others are already playing their part in Afghanistan. Doesn't America accuse Russia of aiding the Taliban? You need to catch up because the war in Syria and Afghanistan have become much more complex than only pointing fingers at Pakistan.

Whose quibbling on complexity of the issue? Like I said US main problem in Afghanistan is not Pakistan, but Afghanistan. Hell, if China and Russia want to take up the cost and risk of stabilizing Afghanistan, I say go for it.

 

[Tom M]

Pakistan doesn't get Western military equipment. Pakistan is working with China on that front. Pakistan receives almist all military equipment from China. Stop fabricating stuff.

You are correct Pakistan doesn't get any Western military equipment's. LOL

http://quwa.org/2017/06/19/pakistans-first-ah-1z-attack-helicopters-track-2017-delivery/

http://thediplomat.com/2017/02/pakistan-to-receive-us-attack-helicopters-in-2017/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1250108

http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...f16-attack-helicopters-thermal-weapon-sights/

 

[maximuswarrior]

With all due respect this is what I was trying to explain to our senior member @maximuswarrior. No one can take on Gaints like U.S.A or Russia unless and until they are capable to take the war to their homeland. The Yankees and Russians have found indirectly in the past and still doing, but that will be fought in a third country as we can see. In the worst case scenario as Mr. maximuswarrior is assuming, even if both China and Russia come to your rescue, the war will be fought in and around Pakistan. The Yankees may loose in terms of men and material or even a large amount of money. But just think who will be the worst hit, even if it means a win ??

LOL you moron. Where did I say that China will rescue Pakistan? Pakistan has already survived an onslaught without China's help. What makes you think we won't again? US strategy to contain Pakistan through Indian meddling in Afghanistan has failed. The terror strategy has backfired. Admit it.

Today the Americans are admitting that without Pakistan Afghanistan is a lost cause. They are literally begging for Pakistan to comply to their wishes. This is the same America which under Obama totally ignored Pakistan. What does that even say about American politics?

We have nothing to offer to the Americans. The fact that our political elite and military forces have already shown no willingness to respond to the American request speaks volume. When we say that our forces are thinned out you need to understand what that means. We have no appetite to join American adventure in Afghanistan. They are on their own.

You are correct Pakistan doesn't get any Western military equipment's. LOL

http://quwa.org/2017/06/19/pakistans-first-ah-1z-attack-helicopters-track-2017-delivery/

http://thediplomat.com/2017/02/pakistan-to-receive-us-attack-helicopters-in-2017/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1250108

http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...f16-attack-helicopters-thermal-weapon-sights/

These are old deals. Have some shame.

 

[BATMAN]

Was Barak Hussein Obama any better for Pakistan?

 

[Rational guy]

LOL you moron. Where did I say that China will rescue Pakistan? Pakistan has already survived an onslaught without China's help. What makes you think we won't again? US strategy to contain Pakistan through Indian meddling in Afghanistan has failed. The terror strategy has backfired. Admit it.

Today the Americans are admitting that without Pakistan Afghanistan is a lost cause. They are literally begging for Pakistan to comply to their wishes. This is the same America which under Obama totally ignored Pakistan. What does that even say about American politics?

We have nothing to offer to the Americans. The fact that our political elite and military forces have already shown no willingness to respond to the American request speaks volume. When we say that our forces are thinned out you need to understand what that means. We have no appetite to join American adventure in Afghanistan. They are on their own.



These are old deals. Have some shame.

No personal attacks please. Keep the dicussion civilised.

 

[Tom M]

LOL you moron. Where did I say that China will rescue Pakistan? Pakistan has already survived an onslaught without China's help. What makes you think we won't again? US strategy to contain Pakistan through Indian meddling in Afghanistan has failed. Admit it.

Today the Americans are admitting that without Pakistan Afghanistan is a lost cause. This is the America which under Obama totally ignored Pakistan. What does that even say about American politics?

We have nothing to offer to the Americans. The fact that our political elite and military forces have already shown no willingness to respond to the American request speaks volume. When we say that our forces are thinned out you need to understand what that means. We have no more appetite to join any American adventure in Afghanistan. They are on their own.

Oops, now America is totally doomed since they are left on their own by a mighty Allie. :-(

You know what they came here in the subcontinent as per their wish, achieved their objectives and they will leave when it pleases them, Pakistan or even China or Russia is not in a position at present to make them leave Afghanistan. How hard you may differ but that is the reality.

Remember all it required was a single sentence from Mr. Bush to entangle Pakistan in this total mess. "Either you are with us or against us." So much for your chest thumping, you are never in a position to dismantle American intentions, at-least at this point of time.

 

[maximuswarrior]

That is not true. China might be the biggest provider, but Pakistan still buys equipment from Western countries, including AH-1z helicopters form US; and recently placed orders for SAAB 2000 Erieye.



Perhaps. But it's not stopping Pakistan from trying...and hoping.



Whose quibbling on complexity of the issue? Like I said US main problem in Afghanistan is not Pakistan, but Afghanistan. Hell, if China and Russia want to take up the cost and risk of stabilizing Afghanistan, I say go for it.

Those are old deals. The Saab deal was on the cards long ago when we purchased those platforms. Nothing new. The choppers same story. Pakistan won't get any new equipment from the US or any other Western country. You know that and everyone knows that. That is even beside the point and even irrelevant to this discussion.

The days of Pakistan hoping and trying are over. The Americans know it too. Pakistan won't get any F-16s. Pakistan has other homegrown alternatives. We do not require sanction-prone platforms.

LOL China and Russia are already involved and you kniw like the Americans do. America has lost in Afghanistan. Blaming Pakistan won't achieve anything other than more mistrust and resentment. They will get it if they seek it.

 

[Tom M]

No personal attacks please. Keep the dicussion civilised.

Thanks, I have requested the same to him in my earlier reply. But alas, some habits of some guy's won't go that easily. So I don't mind.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Oops, now America is totally doomed since they are left on their own by a mighty Allie. :-(

You know what they came here in the subcontinent as per their wish, achieved their objectives and they will leave when it pleases them, Pakistan or even China or Russia is not in a position at present to make them leave Afghanistan. How hard you may differ but that is the reality.

Remember all it required was a single sentence from Mr. Bush to entangle Pakistan in this total mess. "Either you are with us or against us." So much for your chest thumping, you are never in a position to dismantle American intentions, at-least at this point of time.

LOL well they are constantly asking or should I say almost begging Pakistan to do more so that puts your little insignificant theory in cold storage. Trying to get sarcastic about it won't get you any points.

LOL at achieved their objectives. I wonder what those were. Today, Afghanistan is a hellhole. From record opium production to warlords oppressing their own Afghan people. Taliban rule the roost all across Afghanistan. Ghani cannot leave his bunker. The "stronghold" Kabul burns like Rome. Don't even get me started. You think we care if they stay or leave? I hope they stay because everyone is returning the favor. Ask the Russians who are bleeding them out in Syria and Afghanistan. Heck, they have spent more than a trillion dollars and lost countless lives. If this is what you call an achievement of any sort you need to visit a doctor quickly.

LOL that was a different time you ignorant fool. Today is a different time and if the American say it again they will see which side we are on. In fact they already know which side we are on and it is certainly not their side. We have already proved it by allying with China and American frustration is testimony of this fact. Why else would they be literally asking Pakistan for favors? So much for your hollow rhetoric.