Traditional chinese costume . We eliminate your misunderstanding of Chinese costume and hairstyle.

[Snomannen]

I agree with this,but the Jurchen-Manchus were not Chinese before 1644
Liao and Jin dynasty were Chinese dynasties,but Tibetan empire,Nanzhao Kingdom,Dali Kingdom,the Qara Khanate weren't

Why weren't they.
The Qing Dynasty is the first Chinese dynasty which used the world "中國" as an official name of the whole country (including North-East of China, Xinjiang and Tibet), it was also the first Chinese dynasty which called all its people (Han, Manchurian, Tibetan...) in the Empire "中國人". So why were their ancestors "Chinese" and the regimes found by their ancestors "Chinese".

http://www.iqh.net.cn/users/uploadfiles/2008122/200812234543_85543.pdf

 

[sahaliyan]

Not convincible, more please.

And the 建州左卫指挥使

I already said those are 羁縻 policy,the Koreans also use the Ming titles,that not means they were Chinese that time
The Jurchens of Ming dynasty had many countries:Yehe,Hoifa,Ula and Hada,all those countries(gurun) used the title Beile(means King,however in Dynasty,the title became lowed)
The Yehe rulers came from Mongolia,their orihinal surname was Tumet,a guy named Sinkendarhan came into Jang place,conquered the local people,founded the Yehe gurun.The Hoifa rulers came from ikederi clan from northern Manchuria.The Ula and Hada shared same roots,their ancestors was Naciburu,who first use nara as his clan,later all the four hulun kingdoms use nara as their clan name,for example,emperess dowager Cixi came from Yehe nara clan,she is descendant of Yehe beiles.
Those states fought against each other,and received Ming,Korean and Mongolian titles

 

[Grand Historian]

**** disgusting pig, no matter what you say, just go and search that book in library, no matter how you disgusting pig deny, history turth can not be changed

Insult me all you want none of the sources the author quotes is a primary source.

For the 4th time give me the edict issued by the Qing government banning Hanfu for male and female civilians.

 

[Snomannen]

康熙十二年癸醜

總督鄂【諱善】政崇風教，自巡撫時，雅慕先生，知先生不履城市，難以屈致。是年，修複關中書院，拔各郡俊士於中，乃因提學鍾朗致饑渴，又因鹹寧郭丞 通禮意，四月，肅幣聘先生講學。先生力辭至再，鄂公敦延愈殷，三往然後應。鍾以先生衣服寬博不時，預製小袖時袍馳送，先生笑而藏之，仍寬博以往。至城南雁 塔，鍾出城奉迎，見之愕然。先生曰：「仆非官僚紳士，又非武弁營丁，窄衣小袖，素所弗便。寬衣博袖，乃庶人常服；仆本庶人，不敢自異。且庶人無入公門之 理，區區生平，安庶人之分，未嚐投足公門，今進書院，諸公見頗，斷不敢破戒報謁。」鍾為之備逢。鄂曰：「餘等聘先生，原為沐教，豈可令其頓違生平。」五月 十四日，命府三學博士禦車進城。公偕撫軍阿【諱席】熙暨三司迎候於書院之翼室，設宴，隨改其室為明道軒。次日，請先生登座，公與撫軍藩臬以下，抱關擊柝以 上，及德紳、名賢、進士、舉貢、文學、子衿之眾，環階席而侍聽者幾千人。先生立有《學規》、《會約》，約束禮儀，整肅身心。三月之內，一再舉行，鼓蕩摩 厲，士習丕變。故老有逮事馮少墟者，目睹其盛，謂：「自少墟後，講會久已絕響，得先生起而振之，力破天荒，默維綱常，一發千鈞。視少墟倡學於理學大明之 日，其難不啻百倍。」一時院司道府，莫不致餼，鹹卻而不受。撫軍珂贈金數鎰，往返再四，亦固辭。

－－《二曲集》



"寬衣博袖" "庶人常服"～

《康熙耕織圖》

《康熙帝南巡圖卷》

Take a look of those mandarins "窄衣小袖"~

 

[Andrei]

I don't understand Japanese,is it possible for you to translate or summarize the text?

This is german books record 剃发易服， i study in germany, i have lots German materials about manchu 剃发易服 here
China-Chronologie 1: Mandschus, Kolonialisten, Nationalisten, Japan - die Zeit von 1644 bis 1911

Eine Dynastie aus der Mandschurei beherrscht Han-China -
bis zur Fremdbesetzung der Mandschurei


Quellen

-- Robert C. North: Der chinesische Kommunismus. Kindler Uni-Bibliothek 1966

-- John F. Fairbank: Geschichte des modernen China 1800-1985; dtv, 1986

-- Haydt, Mathias u.a.: Ostasien-PLOETZ. Geschichte Chinas, Japans und Koreas zum Nachschlagen; Verlag Ploetz, Freiburg / Würzburg 1986

-- verschiedene Internetbeiträge

für Rahmendaten:
-- Hermann Kinder/Werner Hilgemann: DTV Atlas zur Weltgeschichte Bd. I. und II. 21.Auflage, München 1986

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In English
China-Chronology 1: Manchus, colonialists, nationalists, Japan - the period from 1644 to 1911

A dynasty from Manchuria dominated Han China -
to the foreign occupation of Manchuria


source

- Robert C. North: The Chinese communism. Kindler University Library 1966

- John F. Fairbank: History of Modern China 1800-1985; dtv, 1986

- Haydt, Mathias u.a .: East Asia-PLOETZ. History of China, Japan and Korea to look up; Publisher Ploetz, Freiburg / Würzburg 1986

- Various Internet posts

framework for data:
- Hermann Children / Werner Hilgemann.. DTV Atlas of World History Vol I and II 21.Auflage, Munich 1986

 

[Grand Historian]

This is german books record 剃发易服， i study in germany, i have lots German materials about manchu 剃发易服 here
China-Chronologie 1: Mandschus, Kolonialisten, Nationalisten, Japan - die Zeit von 1644 bis 1911

Eine Dynastie aus der Mandschurei beherrscht Han-China -
bis zur Fremdbesetzung der Mandschurei


Quellen

-- Robert C. North: Der chinesische Kommunismus. Kindler Uni-Bibliothek 1966

-- John F. Fairbank: Geschichte des modernen China 1800-1985; dtv, 1986

-- Haydt, Mathias u.a.: Ostasien-PLOETZ. Geschichte Chinas, Japans und Koreas zum Nachschlagen; Verlag Ploetz, Freiburg / Würzburg 1986

-- verschiedene Internetbeiträge

für Rahmendaten:
-- Hermann Kinder/Werner Hilgemann: DTV Atlas zur Weltgeschichte Bd. I. und II. 21.Auflage, München 1986

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In English
China-Chronology 1: Manchus, colonialists, nationalists, Japan - the period from 1644 to 1911

A dynasty from Manchuria dominated Han China -
to the foreign occupation of Manchuria


source

- Robert C. North: The Chinese communism. Kindler University Library 1966

- John F. Fairbank: History of Modern China 1800-1985; dtv, 1986

- Haydt, Mathias u.a .: East Asia-PLOETZ. History of China, Japan and Korea to look up; Publisher Ploetz, Freiburg / Würzburg 1986

- Various Internet posts

framework for data:
- Hermann Children / Werner Hilgemann.. DTV Atlas of World History Vol I and II 21.Auflage, Munich 1986

None of these are primary sources.

 

[Andrei]

Insult me all you want none of the sources the author quotes is a primary source.

For the 4th time give me the edict issued by the Qing government banning Hanfu for male and female civilians.

i don't want argue with a ***, who are against china.

 

[jkroo]

I already said those are 羁縻 policy,the Koreans also use the Ming titles,that not means they were Chinese that time
The Jurchens of Ming dynasty had many countries:Yehe,Hoifa,Ula and Hada,all those countries(gurun) used the title Beile(means King,however in Dynasty,the title became lowed)
The Yehe rulers came from Mongolia,their orihinal surname was Tumet,a guy named Sinkendarhan came into Jang place,conquered the local people,founded the Yehe gurun.The Hoifa rulers came from ikederi clan from northern Manchuria.The Ula and Hada shared same roots,their ancestors was Naciburu,who first use nara as his clan,later all the four hulun kingdoms use nara as their clan name,for example,emperess dowager Cixi came from Yehe nara clan,she is descendant of Yehe beiles.
Those states fought against each other,and received Ming,Korean and Mongolian titles

Not convincible yet, tell me 羁縻卫所 is not a part of administrative gov of Ming.

Tell me Ming can't control the land through 羁縻卫所.

 

[Andrei]

None of these are primary sources.

you want primary quote? fine, let us read record of qing dynasty
顺治二年六月十五日（1645年7月8日）颁布“剃发令”，“自今布告之后，京师限旬日，直隶各省地方自部文到日，亦限旬日尽行剃发。若规避惜发，巧辞予辩，严惩不贷。”

None of these are primary sources.

record of qing dynasty by qing government

顺治二年七月初九日（1645年8月29日），清廷又颁布“易服令”，规定“官民既已剃发，衣冠皆宜遵本朝之制。”

 

[sahaliyan]

Not convincible yet, tell me 羁縻卫所 is not a part of administrative gov of Ming.

Tell me Ming can't control the land through 羁縻卫所.

Yes,I think so,this is the reason the Ming built the 边墙 of Liaodong,because Jurchens always attack the Ming frontier
Also when the Mongols became powerful,the Jurchens also receive the Mongolian titles

 

[Andrei]

None of these are primary sources.

record of qing dynasty and poem in qing dynasty record of this issue too
秦世祯《抚浙檄草》：“小顶辫发”每个炎黄子孙，都被迫把以前“受之父母不敢毁伤”的头发屈辱地剃去，只留下铜钱大一点，梳成一根小辫，叫“金钱鼠尾”式。将四周头发全部剃去，仅留头顶中心的头发，其形状一如金钱，而中心部分的头发，则被结辫下垂，形如鼠尾，不过1647年清军攻占广州剃发易服令竟还说：“金钱鼠尾，乃新朝之雅政；峨冠博带，实亡国之陋规。”福州遗民所撰《思文大纪》愤怒写道：“时剃头令下，闾左无一免者。金钱鼠尾，几成遍地腥膻。”

“华人髡为夷，苟活不如死！”（顾炎武《断发》诗）。

 

[Okemos]

i don't want argue with a pig, who are against china.

You do know 屁股决定脑袋？ Where people sit will influence how they think.

Also you should stop arguing with them and calm down! Ignoring them is your best choice now. Go watch a nice movie.

 

[Snomannen]

Guess when were these drawings made.
Or should I ask,
how could these painters and their works survive... and became famous?

 

[jkroo]

Yes,I think so,this is the reason the Ming built the 边墙 of Liaodong,because Jurchens always attack the Ming frontier
Also when the Mongols became powerful,the Jurchens also receive the Mongolian titles

You should know history is not created by your thinking.
Answer the question please, and what the differences between 内地卫所 and 羁縻卫所.

 

[Snomannen]

record of qing dynasty and poem in qing dynasty record of this issue too
秦世祯《抚浙檄草》：“小顶辫发”每个炎黄子孙，都被迫把以前“受之父母不敢毁伤”的头发屈辱地剃去，只留下铜钱大一点，梳成一根小辫，叫“金钱鼠尾”式。将四周头发全部剃去，仅留头顶中心的头发，其形状一如金钱，而中心部分的头发，则被结辫下垂，形如鼠尾，不过1647年清军攻占广州剃发易服令竟还说：“金钱鼠尾，乃新朝之雅政；峨冠博带，实亡国之陋规。”福州遗民所撰《思文大纪》愤怒写道：“时剃头令下，闾左无一免者。金钱鼠尾，几成遍地腥膻。”

“华人髡为夷，苟活不如死！”（顾炎武《断发》诗）。

"All the Chinese whom we have yet seen, from the highest to the lowest, have their heads close shaved, except on the crown, where the hair is left untouched by the razor, for about a couple of inches in diameter, and is suffered to grow to a great length, being considered as a very becoming ornament. It is always black, and as strong and coarse as horse hair, which it much resembles. It is platted in a tress, and falls down the back like a Ramillies queue. I have seen some of them a yard long."

by 馬戛爾尼