To counter OBOR, India pushes its own idea of connectivity to the world

[fallstuff]

India only exports 260 billion??? No wonder India is very poor. I won't be bragging if my country has over 1.3 billion people and only exports 260+ billion. China exports 2 trillion and US exports 1.4 trillion. Even little Taiwan exports over 300 billion. India exports only 260 billion and feel no shame and brag about it. No wonder India is going no where.

Indians are the only kind who will brag about being 3rd in a three way race !!!!

 

[武成王]

It's very funny for India to push such initiative, India even don't understand what's OBOR.
The OBOR is a little bit misleading, I have to point it out, this usually lead people to put their eyes focus on road and connectivity. India is an country with coastal lines from three sides,
it's already connected with the rest of world by sea route.

The OBOR is an umbrella to cover oversea adventure of Chinese capital, not necessarily about physical connectivity, it's more about connectivity of commodity and investment, you can't figure it out from a map by drawing any meaningful line. E.g. China firms are helping to build a new capital of Egypt, this project is also in the name of OBOR. CPEC is a basket of projects to resolve energy crisis of Pakistan, and build a foundation to pave the road to industrialization. These projects can help boost *domestic connectivity* of their countries.
Ironically, India is one of the countries most desperately need investment to lift up their own infrastructure level, however, they push an *initiative* to improve the connectivity with others. Bound to be a failure, India is playing chess on a Go board.

However I'm not surprised at such *firecracker* launched by India, Modi/BJP need such great talk to attract votes.

 

[Tom M]

If India want to send product to Europe, it should either go by land or by sea. No point of putting it in a container ship, unloaded in Iran and send it from Iran by rail. How stupid is that!!!!!

India just need to stop attack Pakistan and pursue a friendly policy toward its neighbors so it won't be box in by its neighbors. It can then send goods through Pakistan directly to Europe by rail.

Hello Mr. Genius, do you think you are the only smart one here ???? India had already done multiple dry-runs up and down from Moscow-to-Mumbai and vice versa and conducted countless number of feasibility study of the same. The result is we can save well over USD 2500 per 15 Tons of Cargo being transported, which is more than enough. I think we can still save a lot more if we get an overland transit via Pakistan, but NO, we are happy with what we would gain at present.

If you could find some time between trolls, why don't you read the reports about the dry run and feasibility study (if you want):

http://commerce.nic.in/publications/INSTC_Dry_run_report_Final.pdf

http://www.railwaypro.com/wp/azerbaijan-complete-north-south-corridor-feasibility-study/

ADB may consider financing North-South corridor project

North-South corridor transportation tariffs may decrease

https://reconasia.csis.org/analysis...-link-could-undermine-suez-canals-importance/

It's very funny for India to push such initiative, India even don't understand what's OBOR.
The OBOR is a little bit misleading, I have to point it out, this usually lead people to put their eyes focus on road and connectivity. India is an country with coastal lines from three sides,
it's already connected with the rest of world by sea route.

The OBOR is an umbrella to cover oversea adventure of Chinese capital, not necessarily about physical connectivity, it's more about connectivity of commodity and investment, you can't figure it out from a map by drawing any meaningful line. E.g. China firms are helping to build a new capital of Egypt, this project is also in the name of OBOR. CPEC is a basket of projects to resolve energy crisis of Pakistan, and build a foundation to pave the road to industrialization. These projects can help boost *domestic connectivity* of their countries.
Ironically, India is one of the countries most desperately need investment to lift up their own infrastructure level, however, they push an *initiative* to improve the connectivity with others. Bound to be a failure, India is playing chess on a Go board.

However I'm not surprised at such *firecracker* launched by India, Modi/BJP need such great talk to attract votes.

Before tying a long story of Troll, you should understand that the NSTC project was conceived and the first agreement about that signed way back in 2002, when you OBOR was not even on the paper. Modi and team are actually late in this party, the project is almost 70% complete. But I think you guy's will never notice that, just like Chabahar. LOL

 

[Clutch]

To counter OBOR, India pushes its own idea of connectivity to the world
When India stood up against China's OBOR+ in May this year, it inserted a new thinking to the whole idea of connectivity as an instrument of foreign policy. Until then, connectivity was how China would build its way through Asia and Africa using highways and rail networks — its excess capacity and capital creating fabulous infrastructure and debt underbellies.

India, too, used connectivity to further its own foreign policy, but not to the same effect. But as China continues to grow, connectivity as a foreign policy is being perceived as a certain threat by countries like India and Japan.

Therefore, since this summer, India has pushed its own connectivity mantra with most of its international partners, but with very different rules from China.

A cursory glance at joint statements between India and its international partners shows how New Delhi is trying to change the language of development aid and connectivity initiatives as well as getting its friends to agree.

In its most recent statement with Italy, the two countries "acknowledged the importance of connectivity in today's globalised world. They underlined that connectivity initiatives must be based on universally recognised international norms, good governance, rule of law, openness, transparency and equality and must follow principles of financial responsibility, accountable debt financing practices, balanced ecological and environmental protection, preservation standards and social sustainability."

These are the contours of the Indian version of connectivity as compared to China's OBOR.

The India-EU summit early September noted the same thing: "India and the EU acknowledged the importance of connectivity in today's globalised world. They underlined that connectivity initiatives must be based on universally recognised international norms, good governance, rule of law, openness ..."

Again in September, PM Modi and his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe pledged to work for a more connected world.

Their joint statement said, "strong commitment to work together to enhance connectivity in India and with other countries in the Indo-Pacific region including Africa ... ensuring the development and use of connectivity infrastructure in an open, transparent and non-exclusive manner based on international standards and responsible debt financing practices, while ensuring respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, the rule of law, and the environment." They further reaffirmed the importance of "quality infrastructure" which, among others, ensures alignment with local economic and development strategies, safety, resilience, social and environmental impacts, and job creation as well as capacity building for the local communities.

At the India-Afghanistan strategic partnership council meeting, the two sides "stressed the need to make the regional Transit and Trade Agreement more inclusive and comprehensive ..."

The clearest iteration, of course, lay in the joint statement with Donald Trump in June, where both the countries said that they "support bolstering regional economic connectivity through the transparent development of infrastructure and the use of responsible debt financing practices, while ensuring respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, the rule of law, and the environment."

Equally importantly, India and Russia, which is now much closer to China, plumped for this new definition of connectivity — "It should be based on dialogue and consent of all parties concerned with due respect to sovereignty. The Russian and Indian Sides being guided by the principles of transparency, sustainability and responsibility, reiterate their commitment to build effective infrastructure ... "
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ne-country-at-a-time/articleshow/61713700.cms

People with small hearts never achieve greatness.

 

[Tom M]

People with small hearts never achieve greatness.

And people with smaller brains or without one can't understand what is happening even if it is in front of you as clear as daylight. LOL

 

[Clutch]

And people with smaller brains or without one can't understand what is happening even if it is in front of you as clear as daylight. LOL

Sure... whatever...

However...

When you are at Agra take a good long look at the Taj Mahal... when you are in a library read a book about the Indus Civilization

 

[Tom M]

Sure... whatever...

However...

When you are at Agra take a good look at the Taj Mahal... when you are in a library read a book about the Indus Civilization

Well, why should I ???? When I'm in Agra or Inside a Library, I would rather see or read whatever pleases me, not as per the idea of others.

 

[Clutch]

Well, why should I ???? When I'm in Agra or Inside a Library, I would rather see or read whatever pleases me, not as per the idea of others.

Sure... best of luck with the knockoff OBOR ... albeit India hardly has the cash for a one trillion dollar initiative that China is leading.

 

[Tom M]

Sure... best of luck with the knockoff OBOR ... albeit India hardly has the cash for a one trillion dollar initiative that China is leading.

You should be naive like the Times Of India author, if you think that INSTC is a counter project to OBOR ????

INSTC was long conceived and agreement signed way back in 2002 even before OBOR was on paper. It will be operational very soon unlike OBOR which is a much bigger project and will take another 2-3 decades more, just consider CPEC for example is a long term project which may take another 15-17 years for its completion I guess.

Compared to OBOR, INSTC is much smaller and simple intended to reduce the import cost on the goods that we buy from Europe. Rest you can assume whatever you want. But like Chabahar it will be operational very soon.

 

[faithfulguy]

Hello Mr. Genius, do you think you are the only smart one here ???? India had already done multiple dry-runs up and down from Moscow-to-Mumbai and vice versa and conducted countless number of feasibility study of the same. The result is we can save well over USD 2500 per 15 Tons of Cargo being transported, which is more than enough. I think we can still save a lot more if we get an overland transit via Pakistan, but NO, we are happy with what we would gain at present.

If you could find some time between trolls, why don't you read the reports about the dry run and feasibility study (if you want):

http://commerce.nic.in/publications/INSTC_Dry_run_report_Final.pdf

http://www.railwaypro.com/wp/azerbaijan-complete-north-south-corridor-feasibility-study/

ADB may consider financing North-South corridor project

North-South corridor transportation tariffs may decrease

https://reconasia.csis.org/analysis...-link-could-undermine-suez-canals-importance/




Before tying a long story of Troll, you should understand that the NSTC project was conceived and the first agreement about that signed way back in 2002, when you OBOR was not even on the paper. Modi and team are actually late in this party, the project is almost 70% complete. But I think you guy's will never notice that, just like Chabahar. LOL

If this plan was conceived in2002, why wait till now to start it? It's because this is a ludicrous plan that make no sense. But because India is obsess with countering China, it must have an alternative. So it resurrected a shelved project just to make the news. India should focus on developing its infrastructure instead of trying to match China. India is way too reactive on its policies.

 

[武成王]

If this plan was conceived in2002, why wait till now to start it? It's because this is a ludicrous plan that make no sense. But because India is obsess with countering China, it must have an alternative. Do it resurrected a shelved project just to make the news. India should focus on developing its infrastructure instead of trying to match China. India is way too reactive on its policies.

The series of reactions from India toward OBOR is solely for their own internal politics, they can't sit idle and do nothing. They need launch some firecrackers to respond even it's on paper it's still make sense to delight their civilian to get votes. However, this will never make any meaningful output in reality.

When Indian economy grow to a point where oversea adventure is a necessity, they will have enough money and requirement to do so effectively, just like Japan in the 1980, or China today. Only Japan is a competitor in OBOR in reality although Japan is not in the same level as China. E.g. Japan *promise* to build a high speed railway for India,I'm sure this *promise* will never be completed except Japan would like *donate* India such a project.

 

[Tom M]

If this plan was conceived in2002, why wait till now to start it? It's because this is a ludicrous plan that make no sense. But because India is obsess with countering China, it must have an alternative. Do it resurrected a shelved project just to make the news. India should focus on developing its infrastructure instead of trying to match China. India is way too reactive on its policies.

Oh, yeah, What about your OBOR ?? How many years do you think it will take for it's completion ???

Forget OBER, CPEC which passes only through a single country, Pakistan is expected to be complete only by 2030, so whats the big deal in 16-17 years of completion of a project like INSTC connecting multiple nations ????

Your comments are all mere speculations, a lot of If's and But's . Wasn't it the same that you told about Chabahar, as well ??? Look what happened, Chabahar is currently operational and INSTC will also be operational shortly in 2018.

And don't insist India should do this, India should that as if you were some expert. We know very well what is in our interest even if it mean countering China. Don't try to be our petty well-wisher, your Should suits better in conjunction with Pakistan and China. LOL

The series of reactions from India toward OBOR is solely for their own internal politics, they can't sit idle and do nothing. They need launch some firecrackers to respond even it's on paper it's still make sense to delight their civilian to get votes. However, this will never make any meaningful output in reality.

When Indian economy grow to a point where oversea adventure is a necessity, they will have enough money and requirement to do so effectively, just like Japan in the 1980, or China today. Only Japan is a competitor in OBOR in reality although Japan is not in the same level as China. E.g. Japan *promise* to build a high speed railway for India,I'm sure this *promise* will never be completed except Japan would like *donate* India such a project.

Oops, again a lot of If's, But's, Will. Don't you have anything meaningful to say other than mere speculations Mr. ????? LOL

 

[BABA AGHORI]

If India want to send product to Europe, it should either go by land or by sea. No point of putting it in a container ship, unloaded in Iran and send it from Iran by rail. How stupid is that!!!!!

India just need to stop attack Pakistan and pursue a friendly policy toward its neighbors so it won't be box in by its neighbors. It can then send goods through Pakistan directly to Europe by rail.

It is India's product and containers so let India decide what makes it more feasible for her land or sea or by sea and land.

It was Pakistan who opposed saarc transport initiative.. now it has to learn to live with the lost leverage on India. One who always tried to play spoil should not cry to get a fair treatment.

 

[Tom M]

So According To Indians If CPEC Route Is Used By China Instead of Mallaca It Raises Costs Because It's All Land Route And Is Unviable But INSTC Lowers Costs What A Logic!!!!

Yes, because it's not some rocket science but simple mathematics of distance. For China almost all economic centers are in it's east and far east rather than on the arid western side. Now just check the distance between Kashgar to few Major Chinese cities;

Beijing :4,361.3 km

Shanghai: 5,099.2 km

Guangzhou: 5,398.2 km

Chongqing: 4,236.2 km

Hangzhou: 5,051.8 km

Wuhan: 4,497.2 km

Chengdu: 4,060.1 km

Tianjin: 4,394.8 km

Xi'an: 3,722.5 km

Jinan: 4,298.2 km

This added with the distance of 2,035 km between Gwadar to Kashgar. And given the fact that China's all Important trade already happen through their eastern full fledged ports.

On the contrary INSTC will drastically reduces our distance to Moscow from Mumbai port to merely 7500 K.M.
Using the sea route the distance would 8677 nm which is almost 16069.8 K.M in distance between Mumbai Port and St. Petersburg Port. Understood Mr. Genius ????

http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-st-petersburg,russia/port-of-mumbai,india/

 

[Samlee]

Yes, because it's not some rocket science but simple mathematics of distance. For China almost all economic centers are in it's east and far east rather than on the arid western side. Now just check the distance between Kashgar to few Major Chinese cities;

Beijing :4,361.3 km

Shanghai: 5,099.2 km

Guangzhou: 5,398.2 km

Chongqing: 4,236.2 km

Hangzhou: 5,051.8 km

Wuhan: 4,497.2 km

Chengdu: 4,060.1 km

Tianjin: 4,394.8 km

Xi'an: 3,722.5 km

Jinan: 4,298.2 km

This added with the distance of 2,035 km between Gwadar to Kashgar. And given the fact that China's all Important trade already happen through their eastern full fledged ports.

On the contrary INSTC will drastically reduces our distance to Moscow from Mumbai port to merely 7500 K.M.
Using the sea route the distance would 8677 nm which is almost 16069.8 K.M in distance between Mumbai Port and St. Petersburg Port. Understood Mr. Genius ????

http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-st-petersburg,russia/port-of-mumbai,india/

OK No. 1 CPEC Is Meant To Serve Western and Central China(To Which Industries Have Started Relocating) Not East and No. 2 Would You Also Mind Telling The Distance Between Shanghai and Dubai via Sea Route and Then Make A Comparison?????Thirdly It Is A Rule Of The Thumb That Rail and Road Based Transport Is More Expensive Than Sea Transport and The Only Advantage They Have Is That They Save On Capital Cost In Inventory Which Is In Essence An Opportunity Cost and Not A Cash Flow.Distance Means Nothing Except In Very Special Circumstances