Time for German military to take more active role?

[Echo_419]

The Germans need to reform their constitution as well. I don't see why our German Brothers should remain benign.

They have always been a proud, and powerful military nation. Long have the Prussian Army been an idol of foreign armies.

Germania needs to awaken again.

& the Japan Also must regain its economic might

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The result of the Battle changed in favor for the Prussian-British Alliance when the Prussian IV Corp arrived.

@AUSTERLITZ , perhaps you can enlighten us on the role of the Prussian Army during this battle ?

The british army pinned the french from the front while blucher suddenly arrived and attacked the french flank,marshal grouchy having failed to keep him from joining the english.The truth is neither the english nor the prussians could have won on their own,blucher's same army had suffered a drubbing to napoleon at ligny just days earlier.At waterloo the allied co-operation was excellent and timely,while the 2 sections fo the french army failed to co-ordinate.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The british army pinned the french from the front while blucher suddenly arrived and attacked the french flank,marshal grouchy having failed to keep him from joining the english.The truth is neither the english nor the prussians could have won on their own,blucher's same army had suffered a drubbing to napoleon at ligny just days earlier.At waterloo the allied co-operation was excellent and timely,while the 2 sections fo the french army failed to co-ordinate.

Even if Napolean's two sections fought perfectly and in sync, Blucher would still have made a successful dash, rolling up the French right flank. It would have allowed the entire French army to become prisoner in that case. Right after Napolean decided to take the forehand approach, he WAS getting into a trap with two columns(each larger than his) on both sides. He would have required a massive concentration of firepower to overcome that. It was Napo's genius and luck that he was defeated ONLY on the fields of Waterloo and not immediately before that.

 

[SrNair]

Last time when Germans activated their military ,the World saw one of the formidable fighting machine with advanced weapons.
Cant imagine about their new surprises.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Last time when Germans activated their military ,the World saw one of the formidable fighting machine with advanced weapons.
Cant imagine about their new surprises.

It is possible for them to try that again. The German desire to dominate is not new. Only thing is that they don't need brute military power to do that. What Hitler tried with his Wehrmacht/SS/Kreigsmarine/Luftwaffe in the 40s, Merkel and Co have been able to do that simply by using the best weapon of all times - Currency(the Euro). Germany does rule most of Europe anyway, so there's not much incentive to gain the land officially along with the headaches that come with it.

@Nihonjin1051 - You have called for 'Germany should awaken'. Sounds eerily close to Deustcheland Erwache.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Even if Napolean's two sections fought perfectly and in sync, Blucher would still have made a successful dash, rolling up the French right flank. It would have allowed the entire French army to become prisoner in that case. Right after Napolean decided to take the forehand approach, he WAS getting into a trap with two columns(each larger than his) on both sides. He would have required a massive concentration of firepower to overcome that. It was Napo's genius and luck that he was defeated ONLY on the fields of Waterloo and not immediately before that.

No actually napoelon almost won the waterloo campaign strategically.Blucher and wellington would never had any chance to unite acc to napoleon's startegy of the central position.(i explained this strategy in my austerlitz battle report)However 2 things messed up - Ney's poor performance vs wellington's small force at quatre bras and d'erlon approaching Blucher's prussian army from the rear in a position to annihilate it completely at ligny on napoleon's orders before suddenly turning back and marching away on ney's counterorder.The prussian army would have been destroyed at ligny itslef had derlon's corps fallen at it from teh rear instead of just beaten.Napoleon achieved strategic surprise in the campaign,decieving wellington as to the direction of teh attack.''Napoleon has humbugged me by god'' he said.But this napoleon was not the napoleon of 1796 or 1805,more tired and more clumsy-also he had very poor subordiantes at waterloo.Lannes was dead,massena retired,suchet in italy,davout in paris,soult serving as a staff officer instead of marshal and ney commited large blunders,grouchy was passive.A bit of luck was on the allied side.Moreover in blucher and wellington he was facing 2 of the very competent allied commanders of their time.

 

[SrNair]

It is possible for them to try that again. The German desire to dominate is not new. Only thing is that they don't need brute military power to do that. What Hitler tried with his Wehrmacht/SS/Kreigsmarine/Luftwaffe in the 40s, Merkel and Co have been able to do that simply by using the best weapon of all times - Currency(the Euro). Germany does rule most of Europe anyway, so there's not much incentive to gain the land officially along with the headaches that come with it.

@Nihonjin1051 - You have called for 'Germany should awaken'. Sounds eerily close to Deustcheland Erwache.

That is why the world still much admired about Germans.Quality of their brand,German brand is awesome.I think only Japan can compete with them in that sense.Look at their education system,Administrative style.
Germans didnt invested in military like others after 1945 same as that of Japan.Like you said now their main weapon is Euro.
Changing situations may prompt them for spike up their military again.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

No actually napoelon almost won the waterloo campaign strategically.Blucher and wellington would never had any chance to unite acc to napoleon's startegy of the central position.(i explained this strategy in my austerlitz battle report)However 2 things messed up - Ney's poor performance vs wellington's small force at quatre bras and d'erlon approaching Blucher's prussian army from the rear in a position to annihilate it completely at ligny on napoleon's orders before suddenly turning back and marching away on ney's counterorder.The prussian army would have been destroyed at ligny itslef had derlon's corps fallen at it from teh rear instead of just beaten.Napoleon achieved strategic surprise in the campaign,decieving wellington as to the direction of teh attack.''Napoleon has humbugged me by god'' he said.But this napoleon was not the napoleon of 1796 or 1805,more tired and more clumsy-also he had very poor subordiantes at waterloo.Lannes was dead,massena retired,suchet in italy,davout in paris,soult serving as a staff officer instead of marshal and ney commited large blunders,grouchy was passive.A bit of luck was on the allied side.Moreover in blucher and wellington he was facing 2 of the very competent allied commanders of their time.

No, it was not a strategic victory of Napolean. It was a strategic surprise, when he raced first to meet Wellington on his own terms. Let's assume for once that all his columns had arrived in time and Wellington was alone. Even then Wellington would have fallen back to his rear positions specially prepared. Napolean had none. Then was the Prussian corp that was closing in with its heavy infantry. This Grande Armee was not the French army of the past. Except for the Guards, the rest were not any better than their adversaries.

Also important is that the French had NO reserves to speak off. The war would have dragged on for a while but the outcome was obvious.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The uninterrupted Prussian retreat from Ligny was the time when the French were defeated. Had they been overrun, Napolean's position would have been much better and gained him more time.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

No, it was not a strategic victory of Napolean. It was a strategic surprise, when he raced first to meet Wellington on his own terms. Let's assume for once that all his columns had arrived in time and Wellington was alone. Even then Wellington would have fallen back to his rear positions specially prepared. Napolean had none. Then was the Prussian corp that was closing in with its heavy infantry. This Grande Armee was not the French army of the past. Except for the Guards, the rest were not any better than their adversaries.

Also important is that the French had NO reserves to speak off. The war would have dragged on for a while but the outcome was obvious.

I didn't mean at waterloo battlefield,i meant the whole campaign itself.The campaign would have been over at Ligny and quatre bras itself by and large acc to napoleon's plan.And grouchy's role was to pursue blucher - napoleon thought blucher wa sfinished after ligny and grouchy was passive in his pursuit-this along with blucher's energy allowe dthe prussian arrival taking bonaparte by surprise.

 

[vostok]

The best warriors of Germany were Prussians. I mean - East Prussia, Konigsberg. East Germans were better warriors than Western. I once read an interview with the German general. He said that without the help of NATO FRG could resist the Army of the GDR no more than one week.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I didn't mean at waterloo battlefield,i meant the whole campaign itself.The campaign would have been over at Ligny and quatre bras itself by and large acc to napoleon's plan.And grouchy's role was to pursue blucher - napoleon thought blucher wa sfinished after ligny and grouchy was passive in his pursuit-this along with blucher's energy allowe dthe prussian arrival taking bonaparte by surprise.

Yes, all that is true. Ney made huge mistakes as well with his cavalry charges without adequate artillery, but then many a times similar charges did succeed in the past. We can see more clearly in retrospect. They did not have this opportunity.

Inspite of everything, there was a genuine chance of a breakthrough in Wellington's center. But it was just then that Blucher (re)arrived and trolled the French.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The best warriors of Germany were Prussians. I mean - East Prussia, Konigsberg. East Germans were better warriors than Western. I once read an interview with the German general. He said that without the help of NATO FRG could resist the Army of the GDR no more than one week.

East Prussia was totally depopulated by the Soviet Union of Germans. What little were left were evicted in 1946. East Prussia was made (and continues to be) Russian territory. Konigsberg was renamed to Kaliningrad. It was entirely Russian and nothing else.

 

[SipahSalar]

Germania needs to awaken again.

Yes, since the last two awakenings turned out so well for the world.

 

[vostok]

East Prussia was totally depopulated by the Soviet Union of Germans. What little were left were evicted in 1946. East Prussia was made (and continues to be) Russian territory. Konigsberg was renamed to Kaliningrad. It was entirely Russian and nothing else.

They should not attack Russia. The biggest mistake of Germany.