Three Strongest Navies in Southeast Asia (Vietnamese Report)

[Viet]

CIA exists everywhere. That does not mean Indian power circle is infiltrated. It is a fact that India has 15% muslims who will side with anyone who is anti India and hence easy to get moles. India has maintained strict control over its strategic interests. That is how India could hide its nuclear testing in 1998. Indian english news and social media has been always pro USA. But the reality is that most of Indian news is disseminated by local media and gossips. Indian elections are not heavily influenced by social media. There is indeed an influence of Whatsapp but that is peer to peer and hence the issue of US control does not arise. No election is won or lost on SM like Twitter, FB etc. So, though India ahs been infiltrated by CIA, it is limited to non strategic domain and even without CIA, India has large number of muslims and christians who are anyways foreign agents. Even in 1920, they started Khilafat movement in support of Ottomans. India does have infiltration but has enough ammunition to counter it and that nullifies USA power.

"safer,cleaner,business friendly,better in infrastructure,pragmatic in approach and easier to operate" - this is a big joke. ASEAN countries have no real technology and only serve as labour camps. In return for their oil, USA invested in infratsructure and other equipment manufacturing but all of these are simpler technologies. Malaysia and Indonesia can't even make a full car by itself till now and if you call that "safer,cleaner,business friendly,better in infrastructure,pragmatic in approach and easier to operate" you have some problems.

India is a second largest producer of oil? Are you out of your mind? India is a refiner of oil which refines imported oil and sells it back. Indian oil production is just 700k barrels a day whereas Indonesia produces close to 1million barrels a day. Malaysia, Vietnam etc act as USA hub for providing labour in assemblig electronics. But they have no real economy independently. India on the other hand, has technology to make semiconductors upto 65nm, radars, ships, submarines, nuclear rectors, aircrafts (older gen) and many other equipment of advanced technology.

Why should anyone ignore oil or mineral production or limit it to Arab states? If you don't know the net exports of Indonesia, Malaysia in oil, coal and other minerals historically, it is your fault. Vietnam is an exception and that too because it is located next to China and acts as an intermediary to China by helping reroute shipments to subvert customs duty and also as a trading hub to Chinese industrial areas by virtue of its long coastline. In other words, without acting as China's hub, Vietnam's economy will be similar to Cambodia or Laos.

You have not given a single proper reason to say why ASEAN is better than India but simply made rhetorical remarks and denied the most obvious thing - oil, coal and mineral resources and simply jumped to foolish conclusions

Big country should unite smaller countries under one banner. The US does very good in this regard despite terrible records. Germany even as medium power does very good despite inciting two world wars including holocaust. The other big guys China and India fail miserably to do anything in terms of uniting other nations.
Chinese are like an arrogant elephant in the room that jumps up and down breaking all windows glasses.
India has great potentials however it must tackle internal conflicts.
All talks about CIA, western evils are smoke screens.

 

[Indos]

Which water can Indonesia project its power? IOR? South China Sea? Indonesia has no region of empty water body which it can control. Indonesia is surrounded by countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, Australia, Philippines and India (Andaman & Nicobar) and hence is in a cramped space. Even USSR during cold war found itself in a similar situation where it lacked sufficient ports to project power as it was surrounded by vast landmass of other countries. Indonesia is in a similar position geographically and hence can't project power even if it gets economically larger.

Also, it is surprising that you call for Indonesia to have F35 type plans while at the same time say that Indonesia is controlled by USA. Very strange logic.

What the heck you said Indonesia cannot project power in its region ??

You know the most important sea in SEA is Malacca Strait and Natuna Sea (Choke point) under Indonesian control ?

For Malacca strait of course the strait is controlled by both Indonesia and Malaysia, and Malaysia and Brunei as Muslim majority nations in SEA is Indonesia ally in ASEAN block. This is why you can see Indonesia can host ASEAN meeting about Myanmar despite Indonesia is not a rotating ASEAN leader at the moment.

Have you seen Natuna map ?

This is how the sea is under Indonesian tight control

We have Army, Navy, and Air Force base in Natuna island

And we start building submarine base in Natuna as well

And this missile firing exercise is also conducted in Natuna Sea

And No, we dont need Air Craft Carrier, basically we have already controlled Malacca Strait and its Choke point (Natuna Sea) and what we are going to do is to tight our control on that region.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

"safer,cleaner,business friendly,better in infrastructure,pragmatic in approach and easier to operate" are good enough for investors. Before 1979, CN also had Zero technology , too and they had to ask help from JP to build up their infrastructure, despite JP just massacred 6 million CNese in WW2.

Are you serious? What technology did japan give China? Care to explain? China has made ballistic missile, nuclear submarine, nuclear bomb before 1975. What is that technology which Japan could possibly give China in 1979-80? Don't talk anything just to justify your theories.

Big country should unite smaller countries under one banner. The US does very good in this regard despite terrible records. Germany even as medium power does very good despite inciting two world wars including holocaust. The other big guys China and India fail miserably to do anything in terms of uniting other nations.
Chinese are like an arrogant elephant in the room that jumps up and down breaking all windows glasses.
India has great potentials however it must tackle internal conflicts.
All talks about CIA, western evils are smoke screens.

The world is run by oil. Those who control oil, can project power and give resources. Every activity of power projection and resource supply involves oil usage and hence it is impossible to do anything if one does not have oil. India has only 4 billion barrel of oil reserves which is about 70% depleted from original reserves of 15 GBbl. India consumes just 4 million barrels of oil a day despite having 1.4 billion population. USA consumes 20 million barrels a day with just .32 billion population. If every country had the consumption leevl of India, the oil consumed by USA could have been consumed by 5.5 billion people.

This amount of oil which USA is wastefully using is the reason for its power projection. It is coming at a huge cost of oil and gas reserve depletion in the USA (USA produces 11million barrel of petroleum, 6 million barrels of natural gas liquids, 1 million barrels of ethanol and imports 1-2 million barrel from Canada). This level of consumption or utilisation is not something India can or willing to do.

What the heck you said Indonesia cannot project power in its region ??

You know the most important sea in SEA is Malacca Strait and Natuna Sea (Choke point) under Indonesian control ?

For Malacca strait of course the strait is controlled by both Indonesia and Malaysia, and Malaysia and Brunei as Muslim majority nations in SEA is Indonesia ally in ASEAN block. This is why you can see Indonesia can host ASEAN meeting about Myanmar despite Indonesia is not a rotating ASEAN leader at the moment.

Have you seen Natuna map ?

View attachment 746597

This is how the sea is under Indonesian tight control

We have Army, Navy, and Air Force base in Natuna island

And we start building submarine base in Natuna as well

And this missile firing exercise is also conducted in Natuna Sea

And No, we dont need Air Craft Carrier, basically we have already controlled Malacca Strait and its Choke point (Natuna Sea) and what we are going to do is to tight our control on that region.

Indonesia can control the seas near malacca but it can never use aircraft carrier in that region. I am specifically speaking of only the aircraft carrier usage to counter the other guy. Indonesia can't use a carrier in its seas because it serves no purpose. It can simply use its islands as base instead of using aircraft carriers

 

[Leishangthem]

CIA exists everywhere. That does not mean Indian power circle is infiltrated. It is a fact that India has 15% muslims who will side with anyone who is anti India and hence easy to get moles. India has maintained strict control over its strategic interests. That is how India could hide its nuclear testing in 1998. Indian english news and social media has been always pro USA. But the reality is that most of Indian news is disseminated by local media and gossips. Indian elections are not heavily influenced by social media. There is indeed an influence of Whatsapp but that is peer to peer and hence the issue of US control does not arise. No election is won or lost on SM like Twitter, FB etc. So, though India ahs been infiltrated by CIA, it is limited to non strategic domain and even without CIA, India has large number of muslims and christians who are anyways foreign agents. Even in 1920, they started Khilafat movement in support of Ottomans. India does have infiltration but has enough ammunition to counter it and that nullifies USA power.

"safer,cleaner,business friendly,better in infrastructure,pragmatic in approach and easier to operate" - this is a big joke. ASEAN countries have no real technology and only serve as labour camps. In return for their oil, USA invested in infratsructure and other equipment manufacturing but all of these are simpler technologies. Malaysia and Indonesia can't even make a full car by itself till now and if you call that "safer,cleaner,business friendly,better in infrastructure,pragmatic in approach and easier to operate" you have some problems.

India is a second largest producer of oil? Are you out of your mind? India is a refiner of oil which refines imported oil and sells it back. Indian oil production is just 700k barrels a day whereas Indonesia produces close to 1million barrels a day. Malaysia, Vietnam etc act as USA hub for providing labour in assemblig electronics. But they have no real economy independently. India on the other hand, has technology to make semiconductors upto 65nm, radars, ships, submarines, nuclear rectors, aircrafts (older gen) and many other equipment of advanced technology.

Why should anyone ignore oil or mineral production or limit it to Arab states? If you don't know the net exports of Indonesia, Malaysia in oil, coal and other minerals historically, it is your fault. Vietnam is an exception and that too because it is located next to China and acts as an intermediary to China by helping reroute shipments to subvert customs duty and also as a trading hub to Chinese industrial areas by virtue of its long coastline. In other words, without acting as China's hub, Vietnam's economy will be similar to Cambodia or Laos.

You have not given a single proper reason to say why ASEAN is better than India but simply made rhetorical remarks and denied the most obvious thing - oil, coal and mineral resources and simply jumped to foolish conclusions

CIA exists everywhere. That does not mean Indian power circle is infiltrated. It is a fact that India has 15% muslims who will side with anyone who is anti India and hence easy to get moles. India has maintained strict control over its strategic interests. That is how India could hide its nuclear testing in 1998. Indian english news and social media has been always pro USA. But the reality is that most of Indian news is disseminated by local media and gossips. Indian elections are not heavily influenced by social media.

How do you know the admin isn't backed by the US?(i don't mean operated by). If US was against the gov,the admin would have been torn to smithereens by the cartel of Western media for some of the actions it took, which on the same yardstick,India would be labeled much worse than anything china ever committed in past decade.
How do you know CIA didn't promise anything for election advantage? how do you know many of the politicians aren't on CIA payroll? When money is flowing everywhere from US agencies into India...
With the exception of countries like Myanmar(during aung san suu kyi regime), Columbia and some small nations ,no country is directly ruled by Washington ,but it involves long-arm jurisdiction and backing pro US leaders and Washington does greatly influence the political choice of those nation,through their various means,economic(dollar ,swift,remittance),technology(semiconductor,weapons,gps)-military and propaganda. US don't care about religion,they care about US Interest.

India is a second largest producer of oil? Are you out of your mind? India is a refiner of oil which refines imported oil and sells it back. Indian oil production is just 700k barrels a day whereas Indonesia produces close to 1million barrels a day.

India indigenously produced 32 mm/t of crude oil in 2020,
Meanwhile India refined 69m/t of crude oil in 2020.

Both are aided by oil production but not oil dependent economies now.

Malaysia, Vietnam etc act as USA hub for providing labour in assemblig electronics. But they have no real economy independently. India on the other hand, has technology to make semiconductors upto 65nm, radars, ships, submarines, nuclear rectors, aircrafts (older gen) and many other equipment of advanced technology.

What do you mean by no Independent economy?Does India export anything indigenous of significance compared to ASEAN ?ASEAN provides better everything from infrastructure, hardworking workforce ,ease of business etc ,hence they prefer ASEAN nations instead of India ,even though ASEAN is more expensive than India.
Those nations aren't starving a portion of their nations to " screw driver expert" russian-israeli-US weapon systems after splashing billions and then gloat,get real ,what indigenous tech did India invent or at least improved upon upon?the altered versions turns even worse.
Asean can built almost every thing India can,and even better,many of the asean nation for eg -Thailand are much higher on value added chain of manufacturing. Singapore is on a whole another level than India.
India doesn't make 65nm chips,India's small scale fabs produces 180 nm chips for some military use.Malaysia has their own fab plant that can produce up to 180nm.

Why should anyone ignore oil or mineral production or limit it to Arab states? If you don't know the net exports of Indonesia, Malaysia in oil, coal and other minerals historically, it is your fault.

Because they are like 10-15% of export.Unlike in states like SaUDI Arabia ,where Mineral fuels including oil accounts for 80.4% of total exports.

Vietnam is an exception and that too because it is located next to China and acts as an intermediary to China by helping reroute shipments to subvert customs duty and also as a trading hub to Chinese industrial areas by virtue of its long coastline. In other words, without acting as China's hub, Vietnam's economy will be similar to Cambodia or Laos.

Sure proximity to china helps, ,but there are many nations in proximity to china not just vietnam,so don't denigrate the Vietnamese aptitude and effort for manufacturing.India is cheaper and close to China itself.

If India was balkanized I can bet a million there will be many failed states far poorer than Cambodia or Laos.Many Indian states are poorer than these. These region like Cambodia had 3 million of their most educated and best minds genocided leaving only farmers,though one of the fastest growing nation in ASIA and laos has higher per capita income than India and the development is fast. Give them time,geography and internal political stability can exacerbate or deaccelerate development.

 

[Viva_Viet]

What the heck you said Indonesia cannot project power in its region ??

You know the most important sea in SEA is Malacca Strait and Natuna Sea (Choke point) under Indonesian control ?

For Malacca strait of course the strait is controlled by both Indonesia and Malaysia, and Malaysia and Brunei as Muslim majority nations in SEA is Indonesia ally in ASEAN block. This is why you can see Indonesia can host ASEAN meeting about Myanmar despite Indonesia is not a rotating ASEAN leader at the moment.

Have you seen Natuna map ?

View attachment 746597

This is how the sea is under Indonesian tight control

We have Army, Navy, and Air Force base in Natuna island

And we start building submarine base in Natuna as well

And this missile firing exercise is also conducted in Natuna Sea

And No, we dont need Air Craft Carrier, basically we have already controlled Malacca Strait and its Choke point (Natuna Sea) and what we are going to do is to tight our control on that region.

Bro, I think u stop stop your delusion abt controlling Malacca strait. US or CN can destroy your entire navy in just few hours if u try to block it.

Even VN Kilos also can sink any ID warships with anti ship missiles Kalibr 3M-54 .

Are you serious? What technology did japan give China? Care to explain? China has made ballistic missile, nuclear submarine, nuclear bomb before 1975. What is that technology which Japan could possibly give China in 1979-80? Don't talk anything just to justify your theories.

Do investors need ballistic missile, nuclear submarine, nuclear bomb for their business ?? stop joking,CN didnt even have enough money to upgrade its infrastructure in 1979 and had to ask help from JP.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Sure proximity to china helps, ,but there are many nations in proximity to china not just vietnam,so don't denigrate the Vietnamese aptitude and effort for manufacturing.India is cheaper and close to China itself.

If India was balkanized I can bet a million there will be many failed states far poorer than Cambodia or Laos.Many Indian states are poorer than these. These region like Cambodia had 3 million of their most educated and best minds genocided leaving only farmers,though one of the fastest growing nation in ASIA and laos has higher per capita income than India and the development is fast. Give them time,geography and internal political stability can exacerbate or deaccelerate development.

Thats true, but why u support CN and against VN ?? CN is falling under trade war now, VN is the only country that Asia can count on to counter US after CN collapse like SOviet union due to trade war/cold war.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

How do you know the admin isn't backed by the US?(i don't mean operated by). If US was against the gov,the admin would have been torn to smithereens by the cartel of Western media for some of the actions it took, which on the same yardstick,India would be labeled much worse than anything china ever committed in past decade.
How do you know CIA didn't promise anything for election advantage? how do you know many of the politicians aren't on CIA payroll? When money is flowing everywhere from US agencies into India...
With the exception of countries like Myanmar(during aung san suu kyi regime), Columbia and some small nations ,no country is directly ruled by Washington ,but it involves long-arm jurisdiction and backing pro US leaders and Washington does greatly influence the political choice of those nation,through their various means,economic(dollar ,swift,remittance),technology(semiconductor,weapons,gps)-military and propaganda. US don't care about religion,they care about US Interest.

Why do you think India needs CIA? CIA had influence in India during Nehru era and UPA (2004-2014) era. It had partial influence during ajiv Gandhi era but the USSR also had influence which kept India out of USA sphere. Then during 1990-1998 USA tried to arm twist India as India's main source of oil supply and resource supply from USSR had stopped. But PVNR stopped USA from having complete influence by helping RSS rise up.

Indian establishment is filled with pro USSR people. RSS can never be under USA influence as it is a very strong grassroot organisation. It has its own strengths which is way higher than what USA has within India and RSS can win any election or lose any election within India. Many of the elections lost were intentional as it did not have leaders of good caliber and feared that electing random people and turncoats can result in potential traitors infiltrating. USA can do nothing about it as India wields significant influence in middle east which is now surpassing that of USA. Middle east has already started the process of evicting USA with forcing USA to increase its oil production to eliminate net oil imports from OPEC. China has replaced USA in all aspects except for semiconductor. USA's interests in middle east are hanging and India is its only hope of getting some leverage. If USA lambasts India, then USA's economy and interests will be severely degraded. The first thing BJP did after coming to power was to delegitimise media and hence any foreign media attack will have no result.

India indigenously produced 32 m/t of crude oil in 2020,i.e, more that 2m/t barrels per day.
Meanwhile India refined 69m/t of crude oil in 2020.

Both are aided by oil production but not oil dependent economies now.

Do you know how much 32million tons mean? It means 32*7.3 million barrels as 1ton = 7.3barrels. 32/7.3/365 is 0.7million barrels a day. Are you weak in math? Also, India refined over 25MT of crude oil. Your figure of 70MT is the most absurd figure I have seen. Just check https://www.ppac.gov.in/ for the oil statistics.

What do you mean by no Independent economy?Does India export anything indigenous of significance compared to ASEAN ?ASEAN provides better everything from infrastructure, hardworking workforce ,ease of business etc ,hence they prefer ASEAN nations instead of India ,even though ASEAN is more expensive than India.
Those nations aren't starving a portion of their nations to " screw driver expert" russian-israeli-US weapon systems after splashing billions and then gloat,get real ,what indigenous tech did India invent or at least improved upon upon?the altered versions turns even worse.
Asean can built almost every thing India can,and even better,many of the asean nation for eg -Thailand are much higher on value added chain of manufacturing. Singapore is on a whole another level than India.
India doesn't make 65nm chips,India's small scale fabs produces 180 nm chips for some military use.Malaysia has their own fab plant that can produce up to 180nm.

Hahahaa. Independent economy does not mean exports but indigeous technology for self consumption. Talking utter nonsense like "infrasructure, ahrdworking workforce, ease of business" is just flippant talk which have no meaning or logic.

ASEAN countries can't even make a car and you are speaking of high end manufacture! India used to make 180nm since 2013. Recently India has issued a tender for making 65nm fab which is not surprising as it has been 8 years since India got 180nm fab. These tenders are issued after developing the technology. USA had refused to supply India with any technology. So, all these technology is indigenous in India. The scale of manufacturing is also not a problem as India can expand the scale if needed as technology is indigenous. Malaysia only packages the chips but can't make it. Singapore has nothing at all other than the port business

Because they are like 10-15% of export.Unlike in states like SaUDI Arabia ,where Mineral fuels including oil accounts for 80.4% of total exports.

Export percentage is not important. Say, Malaysia imports $100 billion worth chipset, packages them and exports them for $120 billion. Will that mean Malaysia's export is worth 120 billion? You seem to lack intelligence to understand basic things. That is why I use the word "net". net import and net export matter more.

Sure proximity to china helps, ,but there are many nations in proximity to china not just vietnam,so don't denigrate the Vietnamese aptitude and effort for manufacturing.India is cheaper and close to China itself.

Which other nation is in proximity to China, has a large coast and yet has not improved? North Korea is an exception as it is under global sanctions for testing nuclear weapon.

If India was balkanized I can bet a million there will be many failed states far poorer than Cambodia or Laos.Many Indian states are poorer than these. These region like Cambodia had 3 million of their most educated and best minds genocided leaving only farmers,though one of the fastest growing nation in ASIA and laos has higher per capita income than India and the development is fast. Give them time,geography and internal political stability can exacerbate or deaccelerate development.

There are many ifs and buts. Even if USA was balkanised, it will end up having poor countries like the East European countries after USSR split. I am only saying the reason why Vietnam is growing. Vietnam was also split into 2 pieces which was reunited with USSR and Chinese help. But it is still growing as it had a close connection with China. Chinese backed communists defeated USA and united the country. Since then Vietnam has been close to China and China has also used Vietnam as a proxy to ship its goods anonymously or evade taxes.

Do investors need ballistic missile, nuclear submarine, nuclear bomb for their business ?? stop joking,CN didnt even have enough money to upgrade its infrastructure in 1979 and had to ask help from JP.

Do people who have ballistic missiles, nuclear submarine, satellites etc in 1975 need foreign technology? Stop joking. China had far more advanced technology than Japan and even now Chinese technology is more advanced than Japan in every sphere. China never went bankrupt and always had surplus exports. I wonder what makes you say China did not have money in 1979? Don't spread fake propaganda

 

[mike2000 is back]

Vietnam is the main culprit of the tensions in SCS,this tiny nation has been very impudent and they know it .This little nation which was hardly a mid power,went on a capturing spree of Islands in China's backyard.
Such insolent action would always draw the ire of any nearby superpower.Imagine the reaction of US , if Mexico had went on a capturing spree of islands in gulf of mexico ,in america's backyard ?No super power would allow that.

LOL I don't see whats wrong there. Vietnam was actually smart and they knew the strategic importance of those islands so they were more proactive in establishing control over the region. You cant blame them, you should instead admire their shrewdness, courage and forward thinking. The fact that China and the others were slow to react to this can only be blamed on themselves not others. You cant control what others do but you can control what you do. So its better to blame oneself than blaming others. lol
I'll actually say well done Vietnam. They took a gamble and it paid off well. Now they have more control over islands in SCS far more than any other country. If that's not impressive for such a small country who came out of terrible wars and conflict and was almost divided then i don't know what it is. The others where sleeping and have only their leaders short-sightedness to blame for that.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Do people who have ballistic missiles, nuclear submarine, satellites etc in 1975 need foreign technology? Stop joking. China had far more advanced technology than Japan and even now Chinese technology is more advanced than Japan in every sphere. China never went bankrupt and always had surplus exports. I wonder what makes you say China did not have money in 1979? Don't spread fake propaganda

wow, your poor knowledge explains why your country GDP per capital is even lower than Laos but u still bragging as if u r better than her


India
2019
2,099.6


Lao PDR
2019
2,534.9

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

---------------
CN's infrastructure was almost Zero in 1979, its GDP per capital was just abt 300 USD per year. Thats why Deng literally bowed down and begged help from US-JP

The Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and China was signed in 1978. From the following year Japan began providing official development assistance to China. That aid will conclude in 2018. Over the last 40 years, Japan has provided yen loans, grant aid, and technical cooperation, totalling ¥3.65 trillion in contributions.

The form of Japan’s ODA has changed in response to China’s development. When aid first started being provided in the 1980s, the focus was on development of large-scale economic infrastructure, including harbor maintenance, railroad installations connecting inland regions to coastal areas, and power station construction. On entering the 1990s, in response to progressive urbanization, emphasis shifted to water and sewage systems in major cities, gas supply, and measures to reduce poverty corresponding to an increase in disparity between coastal and inland areas. Then from 2000 onward, more effort was put into soft aspects of development such as environmental protection and human resource training.

After 40 Years, Japan Stops Aid to China

Here we take a look back on 40 years of Japan’s ODA to China.

www.nippon.com

Btw, I quit. Nothing else to say when u dont even know Laos is even better than u in GDP per capital.

 

[Leishangthem]

Why do you think India needs CIA? CIA had influence in India during Nehru era and UPA (2004-2014) era. It had partial influence during ajiv Gandhi era but the USSR also had influence which kept India out of USA sphere. Then during 1990-1998 USA tried to arm twist India as India's main source of oil supply and resource supply from USSR had stopped. But PVNR stopped USA from having complete influence by helping RSS rise up.

Indian establishment is filled with pro USSR people. RSS can never be under USA influence as it is a very strong grassroot organisation. It has its own strengths which is way higher than what USA has within India and RSS can win any election or lose any election within India. Many of the elections lost were intentional as it did not have leaders of good caliber and feared that electing random people and turncoats can result in potential traitors infiltrating. USA can do nothing about it as India wields significant influence in middle east which is now surpassing that of USA. Middle east has already started the process of evicting USA with forcing USA to increase its oil production to eliminate net oil imports from OPEC. China has replaced USA in all aspects except for semiconductor. USA's interests in middle east are hanging and India is its only hope of getting some leverage. If USA lambasts India, then USA's economy and interests will be severely degraded. The first thing BJP did after coming to power was to delegitimise media and hence any foreign media attack will have no result.


Do you know how much 32million tons mean? It means 32*7.3 million barrels as 1ton = 7.3barrels. 32/7.3/365 is 0.7million barrels a day. Are you weak in math? Also, India refined over 25MT of crude oil. Your figure of 70MT is the most absurd figure I have seen. Just check https://www.ppac.gov.in/ for the oil statistics.

Hahahaa. Independent economy does not mean exports but indigeous technology for self consumption. Talking utter nonsense like "infrasructure, ahrdworking workforce, ease of business" is just flippant talk which have no meaning or logic.

ASEAN countries can't even make a car and you are speaking of high end manufacture! India used to make 180nm since 2013. Recently India has issued a tender for making 65nm fab which is not surprising as it has been 8 years since India got 180nm fab. These tenders are issued after developing the technology. USA had refused to supply India with any technology. So, all these technology is indigenous in India. The scale of manufacturing is also not a problem as India can expand the scale if needed as technology is indigenous. Malaysia only packages the chips but can't make it. Singapore has nothing at all other than the port business


Export percentage is not important. Say, Malaysia imports $100 billion worth chipset, packages them and exports them for $120 billion. Will that mean Malaysia's export is worth 120 billion? You seem to lack intelligence to understand basic things. That is why I use the word "net". net import and net export matter more.

Which other nation is in proximity to China, has a large coast and yet has not improved? North Korea is an exception as it is under global sanctions for testing nuclear weapon.

There are many ifs and buts. Even if USA was balkanised, it will end up having poor countries like the East European countries after USSR split. I am only saying the reason why Vietnam is growing. Vietnam was also split into 2 pieces which was reunited with USSR and Chinese help. But it is still growing as it had a close connection with China. Chinese backed communists defeated USA and united the country. Since then Vietnam has been close to China and China has also used Vietnam as a proxy to ship its goods anonymously or evade taxes.

Do people who have ballistic missiles, nuclear submarine, satellites etc in 1975 need foreign technology? Stop joking. China had far more advanced technology than Japan and even now Chinese technology is more advanced than Japan in every sphere. China never went bankrupt and always had surplus exports. I wonder what makes you say China did not have money in 1979? Don't spread fake propaganda

Do you know how much 32million tons mean? It means 32*7.3 million barrels as 1ton = 7.3barrels. 32/7.3/365 is 0.7million barrels a day. Are you weak in math? Also, India refined over 25MT of crude oil. Your figure of 70MT is the most absurd figure I have seen. Just check https://www.ppac.gov.in/ for the oil statistics.

Yearly oil production barrels per day

Source :FOA (UNITED NATIONS)

Why do you think India needs CIA? CIA had influence in India during Nehru era and UPA (2004-2014) era. It had partial influence during ajiv Gandhi era but the USSR also had influence which kept India out of USA sphere. Then during 1990-1998 USA tried to arm twist India as India's main source of oil supply and resource supply from USSR had stopped. But PVNR stopped USA from having complete influence by helping RSS rise up.

Indian establishment is filled with pro USSR people. RSS can never be under USA influence as it is a very strong grassroot organisation. It has its own strengths which is way higher than what USA has within India and RSS can win any election or lose any election within India. Many of the elections lost were intentional as it did not have leaders of good caliber and feared that electing random people and turncoats can result in potential traitors infiltrating. USA can do nothing about it as India wields significant influence in middle east which is now surpassing that of USA. Middle east has already started the process of evicting USA with forcing USA to increase its oil production to eliminate net oil imports from OPEC. China has replaced USA in all aspects except for semiconductor. USA's interests in middle east are hanging and India is its only hope of getting some leverage. If USA lambasts India, then USA's economy and interests will be severely degraded. The first thing BJP did after coming to power was to delegitimise media and hence any foreign media attack will have no result.

My comment was regarding yours which asserted like only ASEAN was infiltrated by cia ,yes ,but CIA is doing the same stuff in India.That's all.

Hahahaa. Independent economy does not mean exports but indigeous technology for self consumption. Talking utter nonsense like "infrasructure, ahrdworking workforce, ease of business" is just flippant talk which have no meaning or logic.

India doesn't depend on foreign import ? be it raw materials for pharmaceuticals,semiconductor chips? and so on?

"infrasructure, ahrdworking workforce, ease of business" matters,given the choice all investors wants to invest in region that are reliable manufacturers; it has to have a competent workforce( indian workers are kind of lazy,dramatic and undisciplined and hard to deal with compared to Vietnamese).India lacks infrastructure which causes delay and ease for doing business;lots of protective restrictions; lack of stability; India is prone to political strikes,mob riot and volatile reactions from locals,along with the risk for poor disaster management ,which could set back production,likeFoxconn and many of industries in India are facing now.

Reason why China is the major manufacturing hub even for garmament despite it being 4-5
times more expensive than Vietnam( 7-8 times more than India)

The manufacturers avoids the temptation to choose a manufacturing destination based on cost alone. Manufacturing in one country with lower labor costs can actually end up costing you more due to other factors, including:

• Worker productivity and skill level
• Factory sophistication and efficiency
• Local infrastructure
• Social compliance violation,
• And more

ASEAN countries can't even make a car and you are speaking of high end manufacture! India used to make 180nm since 2013. Recently India has issued a tender for making 65nm fab which is not surprising as it has been 8 years since India got 180nm fab. These tenders are issued after developing the technology. USA had refused to supply India with any technology. So, all these technology is indigenous in India. The scale of manufacturing is also not a problem as India can expand the scale if needed as technology is indigenous. Malaysia only packages the chips but can't make it. Singapore has nothing at all other than the port business

Again, India doesn't make 65nm chips,everything is in pipeline,India still make 180 mm for few military uses only.India can't make semiconductor if US refused to sell critical equipment. India don't make or have many critical equipment and technologies for semiconductor production. Though you can import second hand small-scale fabs

Malaysia makes more of chip than India does at the moments,India claim to be able to make few chips but never reveal the scale . Malaysia 's silterra makes 46,000 wafers per month.

ASEAN does make cars ,car making is one of the easier manufacturing.the thailand has 3 x per capita income and Malaysia has 4x per capita income they are not just cheap labor region,that would be more of INDIA/BD lvl, infact most of ASEAN is ranked higher in value added chain,India is more like domestic consumption-driven economy along with some milder export gains & remittance surplus based on currency devaluation.
Singapore is the largest investor in India for past decade. Singapore leads in Fintech,Cloud Computing,Medicine,AI ,drones,,aircraft and such,this nation is top 10 in per capita IP ranking ,it specializes in absolute high value added chain.

Export percentage is not important. Say, Malaysia imports $100 billion worth chipset, packages them and exports them for $120 billion. Will that mean Malaysia's export is worth 120 billion? You seem to lack intelligence to understand basic things. That is why I use the word "net". net import and net export matter more.

? are you trying to scam ? No matter what mental gymnastics u pull,you can't compare a nation who's oil & mineral export is just 10--15% of total compared to 80% + of saudi and similar resource dependent state. India itself have 10-15% of total export based on minerals and resources. That's very typical figure for many nations and doesn't indicate total dependence.

Which other nation is in proximity to China, has a large coast and yet has not improved? North Korea is an exception as it is under global sanctions for testing nuclear weapon.

India,pakistan.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

wow, your poor knowledge explains why your country GDP per capital is even lower than Laos but u still bragging as if u r better than her


India
2019
2,099.6


Lao PDR
2019
2,534.9

Talking trash does not change anything. Even Nigeria has more GDP per capita than India. That does not make Nigeria better. Overall infrastructure, technology availability is what matters more. I have been openly telling that technology is more important and here you come like a fool with GDP figures!

CN's infrastructure was almost Zero in 1979, its GDP per capital was just abt 300 USD per year. Thats why Deng literally bowed down and begged help from US-JP

The Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and China was signed in 1978. From the following year Japan began providing official development assistance to China. That aid will conclude in 2018. Over the last 40 years, Japan has provided yen loans, grant aid, and technical cooperation, totalling ¥3.65 trillion in contributions.

The form of Japan’s ODA has changed in response to China’s development. When aid first started being provided in the 1980s, the focus was on development of large-scale economic infrastructure, including harbor maintenance, railroad installations connecting inland regions to coastal areas, and power station construction. On entering the 1990s, in response to progressive urbanization, emphasis shifted to water and sewage systems in major cities, gas supply, and measures to reduce poverty corresponding to an increase in disparity between coastal and inland areas. Then from 2000 onward, more effort was put into soft aspects of development such as environmental protection and human resource training.

Japan is not an independent country. It is a vassal of USA. USA conquered Japan after WW2 and till now USA controls it. So, China signing agreement with Japan is same as signing with USA. Japan is just a proxy. China did try to have some rapprochement with USA after China-USSR tensions worsened. China kept accusing USSR of deviating from Communism and becoming weak and soft. Eventually, China tried to develop relations with USA when USA tried to extend an arm. But that was not because China needed funds or lacked money. China always had enough resources. China already had industry to make various advanced technology like submarines, missiles etc. China had enough raw materials like coal and was even an exporter of oil till 1995. The 3.5trillion yen only amounts to 30 billion USD. China's foreign aid to North Korea, Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia etc during unrest and war time was several times the amount given by Japan. Japanese amount was peanut

China realised within 10 years after the Tianamen square protest that this money was only supplied to develop US agents and otherwise had no real good intention. China withdrew from any friendship attempts towards USA. At the end, China got nothing useful from Japan or USA. It was just a gimmick with no use. China had thousands of times more resources than what JP or USA ever gave.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Yearly oil production barrels per day

Source :FOA (UNITED NATIONS)

You must be quoting some mentally unsound person or misquoting by including gas production as oil equivalent. Moreover, this is from worldometer, not UN. It even says that USA produces 14mBBl a day! If you keep quoting random things, I can't help

My comment was regarding yours which asserted like ASEAN was infiltrated by cia ,yes ,but CIA is doing the same stuff in India.That's all.

Same? How is it same? Even India interfered in USA elections through Reublican Hindu coalition during 2016 elections. CIA has no hold over india and can't influence anything in large scale. The minor influence is unavaoidable because of muslim population. In fact, KSA has more influence in india than CIA.

India doesn't depend on foreign import ? be it raw materials for pharmaceuticals,semiconductor chips? and so on?

India does not depend for critical goods. Pharma is mostly indigenous except for about 20% import in certain drugs. The so called raw material shortage in vaccine is happening because India tried to scale up beyond its actual capacity. Only semiconductor is where India depends on imports

"infrasructure, ahrdworking workforce, ease of business" matters,given the choice all investors wants to invest in region that are reliable manufacturers; it has to have a competent workforce( indian workers are kind of lazy,dramatic and undisciplined and hard to deal with compared to Vietnamese).India lacks infrastructure which causes delay and ease for doing business;lots of protective restrictions; lack of stability; India is prone to political strikes,mob riot and volatile reactions from locals,along with the risk for poor disaster management ,which could set back production,likeFoxconn and many of industries in India are facing now.

You are mentally unsound. Indian workers are not lazy or undisciplined while Indonesian workers are disciplined! The behaviors is the same. It is just your mental problem that is making you view things differently.
Saying everything as poor without giving concrete examples is meaningless nonsense. Don't waste my time if you have nothing concrete

Again, India doesn't make 65nm chips,everything is in pipeline,India still make 180 mm for few military uses only.India can't make semiconductor if US refused to sell critical equipment. India don't make or have many critical equipment and technologies for semiconductor production. Though you can import second had small-scale fabs shrouded in secrecy.

Malaysia makes more of a chips than India does at the moments,India claim to be able to make few chips but never reveal the scale . Malaysia 's silterra makes 46,000 wafers per month.

ASEAN does make cars ,car making is one of the easier manufacturing.the thailand has 3 x per capita income and Malaysia has 4x per capita income they are not just cheap labor region,that would be more of INDIA/BD lvl, infact most of ASEAN is ranked higher in value added chain,India is more like domestic consumption-driven economy along with some milder export gains & remittance surplus based on currency devaluation.
Singapore is the largest investor in India for past decade. Singapore leads Fintech,Cloud Computing,Medicine,AI ,drones,,aircraft and such,this nation is top 10 in per capita IP ranking ,it specializes in absolute high value added chain.

Don't open your mouth with complete nonsense. You are stupid who talk anything and evrything without even bothering to research. ASEAN countries Indonesia, Singapore and malaysia don't make cars. Next time give me the exact plant which manufactures car engines in these countries. Elseo, don't spam the comments.

Singapore has nothing to invest. Singapore is simply redirecting investment of third parties. Many peopel prefer to have HQ ins Singapore as it is a tax haven.

Also, India has been making 180nm chips since 2013 and now it has upgraded to 65nm. DRDO has various 65nm chips for ISRO and other defence application on their website. However, currently 10nm chips are used internationally and hence 65nm is still old. Nevertheless, India is capable of manufacturing chips to serve older generation computers and defence items which is better than having nothing. Entire defence chipsets are made complete indigenous

 

[Indos]

Don't open your mouth with complete nonsense. You are stupid who talk anything and evrything without even bothering to research. ASEAN countries Indonesia, Singapore and malaysia don't make cars. Next time give me the exact plant which manufactures car engines in these countries. Elseo, don't spam the comments.

Here, so next time do search instead of relying on your own assumption or comment by Indian members in Indian Defense Forum.

Melongok Pembuatan Mesin Mobil Toyota

Sisa material berupa plat baja yang digunakan dalam pembuatan rangka dan bodi tidak dibuang

www.liputan6.com

 

[Leishangthem]

You must be quoting some mentally unsound person or misquoting by including gas production as oil equivalent. Moreover, this is from worldometer, not UN. It even says that USA produces 14mBBl a day! If you keep quoting random things, I can't help


Same? How is it same? Even India interfered in USA elections through Reublican Hindu coalition during 2016 elections. CIA has no hold over india and can't influence anything in large scale. The minor influence is unavaoidable because of muslim population. In fact, KSA has more influence in india than CIA.

India does not depend for critical goods. Pharma is mostly indigenous except for about 20% import in certain drugs. The so called raw material shortage in vaccine is happening because India tried to scale up beyond its actual capacity. Only semiconductor is where India depends on imports

You are mentally unsound. Indian workers are not lazy or undisciplined while Indonesian workers are disciplined! The behaviors is the same. It is just your mental problem that is making you view things differently.
Saying everything as poor without giving concrete examples is meaningless nonsense. Don't waste my time if you have nothing concrete


Don't open your mouth with complete nonsense. You are stupid who talk anything and evrything without even bothering to research. ASEAN countries Indonesia, Singapore and malaysia don't make cars. Next time give me the exact plant which manufactures car engines in these countries. Elseo, don't spam the comments.

Singapore has nothing to invest. Singapore is simply redirecting investment of third parties. Many peopel prefer to have HQ ins Singapore as it is a tax haven.

Also, India has been making 180nm chips since 2013 and now it has upgraded to 65nm. DRDO has various 65nm chips for ISRO and other defence application on their website. However, currently 10nm chips are used internationally and hence 65nm is still old. Nevertheless, India is capable of manufacturing chips to serve older generation computers and defence items which is better than having nothing. Entire defence chipsets are made complete indigenous

You must be quoting some mentally unsound person or misquoting by including gas production as oil equivalent. Moreover, this is from worldometer, not UN. It even says that USA produces 14mBBl a day! If you keep quoting random things, I can't help

Here's the latest stats than ,from US Energy adminstration.


https://www.eia.gov/international/d...vvvvvvnvvvs0008&s=94694400000&e=1609459200000

As I already mentioned before Mineral fuels including oil provides just US$25.6 b, 15.7% of total export for Indonesia in 2020.
India's Mineral fuels including oil is US$44.1 billion 13.7% of total exports.
India makes more but is less % of the total export by just 2% .

If oil was all to it,India is no different.

You are mentally unsound. Indian workers are not lazy or undisciplined while Indonesian workers are disciplined! The behaviors is the same. It is just your mental problem that is making you view things differently.
Saying everything as poor without giving concrete examples is meaningless nonsense. Don't waste my time if you have nothing concrete

Why did you jumped from Vietnamese to Indonesians? not convenient for your retort?
Indonesia isn't even the most attractive region for foreign manufacturers,it's notorious for its unfavourable policies toward foreign manufacturers.

ASEAN countries Indonesia, Singapore and malaysia don't make cars. Next time give me the exact plant which manufactures car engines in these countries. Elseo, don't spam the comments.

Except for Singapore the others make cars. It's funny how you tend to skim past certain nations to fit your narrative.They have their own local brand,just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean there's none ,do your homework,it's basic . Thailand has the 12th largest automotive industry in the world ,hence'asian don't make cars" is wrong.

Also, India has been making 180nm chips since 2013 and now it has upgraded to 65nm. DRDO has various 65nm chips for ISRO and other defence application on their website. However, currently 10nm chips are used internationally and hence 65nm is still old. Nevertheless, India is capable of manufacturing chips to serve older generation computers and defence items which is better than having nothing. Entire defence chipsets are made complete indigenous

Source for 65 nm?
Though Malaysia does have fabs regardless.
.

 

[Indos]

Just simple googling can find this thing :

TMMIN plants produces two gasoline and ethanol engines: TR (Sunter Plant #1 & #2) and R-NR (Karawang Plant #3). There are two types of TR engine made from iron, 1TR and 2TR. These machines are used for car with IMV (Innovative Multipurpose Vehicle) type like Fortuner and Innova. Furthermore, R-NR engine which is made from aluminum, also has two types, 1RN and 2RN. These engines are used for sedan like Yaris, Vios & MAV (Multi Activity Vehicle) like Sienta. Both engines are produced not only for domestic market but also for many countries in the world.

Global Manufacturing Company | Manufacturing Product

www.toyota.co.id

@Smarana Mitra