The US-China tech war has forced a Chinese smartphone maker to halt production

[Huan]

ZTE is not big in US market, but big enough in the WORLD Market for their telecom equipments, and they use qualcomm. That is why ZTE is important client of qualcomm. Qualcomm stock price decline due to this issue and they cut their employees already.

There are 2 scenarios where both will benefit china and harm us importance:

Scenario 1: US only embargo ZTE:

• ZTE will be crippled
• Qualcomm revenue will decline significantly, hence their future R&D will decline as well.
• Huawei will take advantage by taking over the market share left by ZTE and growing stronger, hence their R&D will be getting strong.
• Then perhaps in next 5 year Huawei products will be more advanced due to stronger r&d while Qualcomm products will be mediocre due to their decline. => china benefit, us loose.

Scenario 2: US embargo most chinese tech companies (ZTE, Huawei, Xiaomi, Vivo, Oppo, Lenovo, TCL, One1, Meizu, etc):

• Qualcomm and other US suppliers supplying to them will die
• China will force her smartphone companies to use domestic processor (speadtrum, kirin, etc) or mediatek, and chinese OS (Alliyun, etc), by imposing high tarriff on US tech and high tax for Android users.
• Chinese smartphone producers still can be alive with chinese market, though their overseas sales may decrease but they can build foothold with their own technology in overseas market; while US apple will be impacted severely either due to being bared or imposed high tax in chinese market.
  
• At the end, chinese OS will rise to compete with Android, and chinese processor (kirin, speadtrum) will become leaders supllanting dying Qualcomm etc. => china benefit, us loose.

As you see, with both scenario US will suffer more and china will benefit.

In fact the embargo to ZTE is a movement that benefit China though harm ZTE. Because due to this embargo, china have reason to take actions that benefit her purpose to become self reliance in technology like subsidizing her domestic tech companies, protecting her tech companies by regulations or imposing barrier or high tarrif on imported technologies, etc though that measurements are against spirit of free trade committed by most countries including china.



In fact it will be good for China in a long run.

Isolationist will be bad for smaller country;but it will not that bad for country with huge market and abundant natural resources. In fact isolationist china will harm other countries (US, japan, korea, europe, etc) more than china herself.

It may not be good for international trade and economic purpose which will bring efficiency for all countries participating in free trade (economic theory). But it will definitely be good for china if US impair this free trade by embargoing china. Means China will and need to do that if US stop supplying her the technology that she need. That is 100% certain.



Building own domestic supplier doesn't mean being isolationist.

China has done it before, and as you may have seen China were still be able to enjoy free trade while establishing own domestic suppliers (eg: robotics, telcom, high speed train, heavy machineries, etc).

Someday, I hope we overseas consumers will be able to buy a Chinese quantum-level laptop computer at a good affordable price.

 

[antonius123]

lol. You do know the world did not work just because you say so. You have overestimated ZTE business involvement and underestimated Qualcomm business for like a mile...

Qualcomm lost due to this ZTE scandal is minimal. Consider this ZTE main business is network hardware support (which own 54% of their profit) Qualcomm did not have anything in this field, Qualcomm is a major SoC (UMTS and CPU) manufacturer, which only used in mobile phone, tablet and wireless modem, which is according to ZTE, 17% of their profits. And a lot of other stuff Qualcomm did was not in the ZTE field (such as graphic accelerator, binary processing structure)

Because what I said is fact.

Why U.S. strike on ZTE is another blow for Qualcomm
Caught in the crossfire is Qualcomm, whose products account for the lion's share of chips inside ZTE smartphones. The Chinese company shipped an estimated 46.4 million phones last year, according to IHS Markit.
.......
TRIPLE THREAT

The ZTE issue could create a triple threat for Qualcomm: the loss of an important customer, rivals bolstered as they step in to fill the vacuum, and a potential hit as China looks to retaliate against the United States.

https://telecom.economictimes.india...ike-on-zte-another-blow-for-qualcomm/63799486

In a deadly blow to QUALCOMM Incorporated (QCOM - Free Report) , the U.S. government has banned sale of components by American firms to Chinese telecom equipment maker, ZTE Corp. Share prices of most Silicon Valley suppliers took a beating on the news, with Qualcomm falling 1.7% to close at $54.77 as on Apr 16.
https://www.zacks.com/stock/news/299473/qualcomms-revenues-might-be-hit-by-ban-on-sales-to-zte

You can say Qualcomm damage is minimal if compared to ZTE's, but it still significant for Qualcomm itself.

Most of what the ZTE source is locally, which mean it will hurt Chinese business had they been out of operation.

As I said, the Huawei will take over market share left by ZTE, that means the local vendor of ZTE could switch to Huawei easily, while US vendor to ZTE may not be able to switch to Huawei that easy considering Huawei better self reliance and cautiousness.

Qualcomm on the other hand, is getting 46 billions to buy off NXT and expanding their business.

Lol. If you understand business and finance, that is nothing to do with the Qualcomm existing profit that will be impacted by the decline sales to ZTE.

This 46 billions is not additional revenue/profit that Qualcomm receive, but seperated investment with expectation to gain certain return through the NXT business taken over. The SoC business itself will decline due to the lost revenue from ZTE, and this decrese of revenue will reduce next Qualcomm r&d for future products.

And no, if this does not work good on international trade (as you said so yourself) this is not going bring efficiency to other country. Free trade theory bound by trading practice, not bound by trade volume or import/export balance. If a country did not have good trading practices, free trade theory would suggest trading would be hinder and less effective due to governmental control. That is what economists labelled as left wing economic policy.

The rest of your point. Well....

Yes, but as I said: being self reliance doesn't mean being isolationist.

China never intend to be isolationist. Except as countermeasure if US embargo China.

 

[jhungary]

Because what I said is fact.

Why U.S. strike on ZTE is another blow for Qualcomm
Caught in the crossfire is Qualcomm, whose products account for the lion's share of chips inside ZTE smartphones. The Chinese company shipped an estimated 46.4 million phones last year, according to IHS Markit.
.......
TRIPLE THREAT

The ZTE issue could create a triple threat for Qualcomm: the loss of an important customer, rivals bolstered as they step in to fill the vacuum, and a potential hit as China looks to retaliate against the United States.

https://telecom.economictimes.india...ike-on-zte-another-blow-for-qualcomm/63799486

In a deadly blow to QUALCOMM Incorporated (QCOM - Free Report) , the U.S. government has banned sale of components by American firms to Chinese telecom equipment maker, ZTE Corp. Share prices of most Silicon Valley suppliers took a beating on the news, with Qualcomm falling 1.7% to close at $54.77 as on Apr 16.
https://www.zacks.com/stock/news/299473/qualcomms-revenues-might-be-hit-by-ban-on-sales-to-zte

You can say Qualcomm damage is minimal if compared to ZTE's, but it still significant for Qualcomm itself.

Share price drop can be for whatever reason, not just because it was banning ZTE.

There are numerous news that come out in the same time can cause the dip in Qualcomm price.

1.) Qualcomm proposed acquisition to NXT is on hold by Chinese government, this is actually doing more damage than ZTE does, may be because its Chinese Government retailiate what US did in the trade tariff, or it could be something else.

2.) Qualcomm just posted a net lost of 2.46 billions in April 2018 for the FY 2017. Which this lost is before the shut down of ZTE (because it is a reported lost between April 2017 to March 2018, as it was FY 2017.)

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/804328/000123445217000190/qcom10-k2017.htm

3.) Qualcomm was fined by EU Commission with respect to Anti-trust law for Euro 997 millions (Near 1 billions USD) on Jan 2018.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-421_en.htm

Any of these 3 reason could be the actual reason why the share price dip of Qualcomm reported in May, but anyway, 1.7% drop is not much.

As I said, the Huawei will take over market share left by ZTE, that means the local vendor of ZTE could switch to Huawei easily, while US vendor to ZTE may not be able to switch to Huawei that easy considering Huawei better self reliance and cautiousness.

Yes, but it would be a long time to re-gear to a non-Western style telco market, and it will only be able to work in China. If and when such system come on line, Chinese telco can basically say goodbye to foreign market.

That is the reason why Huawei did not help ZTE at all, instead, wait for it to fold (also the second biggest market is a good reason)

I don't think other Chinese company would migrate to US/Western telco service because of that, but this remain to be seen. However, one indication is why ZTE gone bust instead of continue trading with Chinese substitute

Lol. If you understand business and finance, that is nothing to do with the Qualcomm existing profit that will be impacted by the decline sales to ZTE.

This 46 billions is not additional revenue/profit that Qualcomm receive, but seperated investment with expectation to gain certain return through the NXT business taken over. The SoC business itself will decline due to the lost revenue from ZTE, and this decrese of revenue will reduce next Qualcomm r&d for future products.

You seems to be the one who know nothing about finance and business, in particular, company acquisition.

To acquire a company, say Company A want to buy Company B, company A have to come up with the capital that they need to cover the acquisition, such value is pull from Company A liquid asset and/or cash flow to buy company B. And if the deal drag on for whatever reason, Company A would have less operational income and operational asset to run the business, which is bad for company practices.

You cannot buy another company with money you do not have, that's illegal. And in this case, the buy price is 46 billions, which is more than Qualcomm have in their entire revenue, they would have to borrow from bank/other company to make the trade, which mean debt will be involve.

So no, if Qualcomm really have any sort of major problem in ZTE scandal, they would have to withdraw the proposal to free up the money they set aside to buy NXT, otherwise they would have no cash flow/liquid asset to operate a company. that indicate either the problem with ZTE gone is not big, or head of Qualcomm have gone crazy.

Yes, but as I said: being self reliance doesn't mean being isolationist.

China never intend to be isolationist. Except as countermeasure if US embargo China.

That is the definition of becoming an isolationist, which is bad for Chinese market in the long term, that is the reason why no one ever actually talk about this but people in PDF forum.

 

[antonius123]

Share price drop can be for whatever reason, not just because it was banning ZTE.

There are numerous news that come out in the same time can cause the dip in Qualcomm price.

1.) Qualcomm proposed acquisition to NXT is on hold by Chinese government, this is actually doing more damage than ZTE does, may be because its Chinese Government retailiate what US did in the trade tariff, or it could be something else.

2.) Qualcomm just posted a net lost of 2.46 billions in April 2018 for the FY 2017. Which this lost is before the shut down of ZTE (because it is a reported lost between April 2017 to March 2018, as it was FY 2017.)

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/804328/000123445217000190/qcom10-k2017.htm

3.) Qualcomm was fined by EU Commission with respect to Anti-trust law for Euro 997 millions (Near 1 billions USD) on Jan 2018.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-421_en.htm

Any of these 3 reason could be the actual reason why the share price dip of Qualcomm reported in May, but anyway, 1.7% drop is not much.

Why you ignore the ZTE issue as one of the reasons??

Your point no 3 cannot be the reason of the Qualcomm stock price drop in April 2018 while EU fine was on January 2018; hence the fine by EU should be reflected in qualcomm stock price in Jan 2018. Investors will react soon after the announcement, thats the way stock price work in near efficient market (if you understand finance).

The fact I've given above has mentioned the ZTE one of the triple effect is very obvious, hence you can't ignore it.

I repost Triple Threat from other source:

TRIPLE THREAT
The ZTE issue could create a triple threat for Qualcomm: the loss of an important customer, rivals bolstered as they step in to fill the vacuum, and a potential hit as China looks to retaliate against the United States.
..........
Qualcomm’s shares dropped 1.7 percent on Monday. Smaller U.S. optical components firms such as the ZTE supplier Acacia Communications fell more steeply.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-zte-another-blow-for-qualcomm-idUSKBN1HO0XT​

Yes, but it would be a long time to re-gear to a non-Western style telco market, and it will only be able to work in China. If and when such system come on line, Chinese telco can basically say goodbye to foreign market.

Not as long as you imagine.

In fact they already have smartphones products with Mediatek and even with Aliyun. Once China ban Qualcomm and Android products, chinese consumers will have no choice than buying Chinese smartphones with mediatek/kirin/speadtrum/S2 and aliyun or other chinese OS.

6 chinese smartphones maker has released smartphone with Aliyun 5 years ago:
https://www.techinasia.com/alibaba-rebrands-aliyun-yunos-new-phones

That indicate that the aliyun ecosystem might have been ready.

You say goodby to foreign market? Chinese doesnt want, but remember this is must be due to US ban on supply of technology to all chinese makers right? In that scenario - Chinese makers will loose foreign market but still can survive with her huge market with government help by banning other foreign smartphone with US tech content, while US qualcomm etc will die because chinese smartphone maker are their major clients, thats why I said US will loose more and china get something (self reliance ecosystem)

That is the reason why Huawei did not help ZTE at all, instead, wait for it to fold (also the second biggest market is a good reason)

That couldn't be the reason. This is business, every body want revenue.

In fact the Qualcomm ban will be good opportunity for Huawei and other vendors like mediatek, samsung, arm, xiaomi, etc. Huawei could make a bit different Kirin for other smartphone makers if they want to differentiate.

Huawei recent statement amid ZTE ban: that they will use kirin exclusively may apply for short term period due to limited current production capacity, or for political reason in order not to scare their competitors.

I don't think other Chinese company would migrate to US/Western telco service because of that, but this remain to be seen. However, one indication is why ZTE gone bust instead of continue trading with Chinese substitute

Chinese company doest want, but China government can control by impossing high tarriff for qualcom and high tax for android application, if US attack.

You ask why currently ZTE doesnt go to other suppliers? Very simple => Because if only ZTE alone use their all products with mediatek and alliyun , while their competitors (Huawei, Xiaomi, Vivo, Oppo, Lenovo, TCL, Meizu, One1, etc etc) are still can offer with Android, then consumers still prefer Android due to maturity of Android ecosystem, hence releasing all Aliyun smartphones is the same as committing suicide for ZTE at the current situation.

But if China ban Android & Qualcomm in her market, then ZTE's competitor and consumers has no choice than go for aliyun, mediatek/kirin/S2, etc.

You seems to be the one who know nothing about finance and business, in particular, company acquisition.

To acquire a company, say Company A want to buy Company B, company A have to come up with the capital that they need to cover the acquisition, such value is pull from Company A liquid asset and/or cash flow to buy company B. And if the deal drag on for whatever reason, Company A would have less operational income and operational asset to run the business, which is bad for company practices.

You cannot buy another company with money you do not have, that's illegal. And in this case, the buy price is 46 billions, which is more than Qualcomm have in their entire revenue, they would have to borrow from bank/other company to make the trade, which mean debt will be involve.

So no, if Qualcomm really have any sort of major problem in ZTE scandal, they would have to withdraw the proposal to free up the money they set aside to buy NXT, otherwise they would have no cash flow/liquid asset to operate a company. that indicate either the problem with ZTE gone is not big, or head of Qualcomm have gone crazy.

LOL. That is your own (wrong) assumption. Because you dont know how company run business and have no clue about corporate financial practice.

As the matter of fact: if Qualcomm has got fund from issuance of bonds or stocks or get bank loan for the business expansion or for acquisition (NXP), hence Qualcomm should not deviate the fund for other purpose. It should be stated in the agreement with the bank or in the indenture of the bond. Hence the fund should not be used for other SBU (strategic business unit). The use of fund for other cashflow requirement will be Illegal!

Furthermore the loss or revenue drop should remain in that SBU (SOC), and the loss or revenue drop may not be cleared up with other incoming fund, hiding loss is manipulation and forgery. Then they have to release the P/L to investors and public. This loss should impact company market value hence the stock price should drop. However in the stock market usually investors are buying rumours or signals, hence the stock price will drop even before Qualcomm release Q2 P/L information, because investors has anticipated the potential decline of revenue due to this ban.

That is the definition of becoming an isolationist, which is bad for Chinese market in the long term, that is the reason why no one ever actually talk about this but people in PDF forum.

If that is your definition of "being isolationist" then being isolationist is good for China and other country. As you can see China economy has grown fantastically by being issolationist (according to your own definition).

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

this is atually good news. you are forcing ZTE to innovate and produce its own chips(though i think Huawei's Kirin will simply move in to fill the gap)- it has the same effect as the Western arms embargo.

The US demands opening up of China's financial sector to Rothschild domination like the rest of the world- that's not possible for reasons of national security national security.

 

[Beast]

Why you ignore the ZTE issue as one of the reasons??

Your point no 3 cannot be the reason of the Qualcomm stock price drop in April 2018 while EU fine was on January 2018; hence the fine by EU should be reflected in qualcomm stock price in Jan 2018. Investors will react soon after the announcement, thats the way stock price work in near efficient market (if you understand finance).

The fact I've given above has mentioned the ZTE one of the triple effect is very obvious, hence you can't ignore it.

I repost Triple Threat from other source:

TRIPLE THREAT
The ZTE issue could create a triple threat for Qualcomm: the loss of an important customer, rivals bolstered as they step in to fill the vacuum, and a potential hit as China looks to retaliate against the United States.
..........
Qualcomm’s shares dropped 1.7 percent on Monday. Smaller U.S. optical components firms such as the ZTE supplier Acacia Communications fell more steeply.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-zte-another-blow-for-qualcomm-idUSKBN1HO0XT​

Not as long as you imagine.

In fact they already have smartphones products with Mediatek and even with Aliyun. Once China ban Qualcomm and Android products, chinese consumers will have no choice than buying Chinese smartphones with mediatek/kirin/speadtrum/S2 and aliyun or other chinese OS.

6 chinese smartphones maker has released smartphone with Aliyun 5 years ago:
https://www.techinasia.com/alibaba-rebrands-aliyun-yunos-new-phones

That indicate that the aliyun ecosystem might have been ready.

You say goodby to foreign market? Chinese doesnt want, but remember this is must be due to US ban on supply of technology to all chinese makers right? In that scenario - Chinese makers will loose foreign market but still can survive with her huge market with government help by banning other foreign smartphone with US tech content, while US qualcomm etc will die because chinese smartphone maker are their major clients, thats why I said US will loose more and china get something (self reliance ecosystem)



That couldn't be the reason. This is business, every body want revenue.

In fact the Qualcomm ban will be good opportunity for Huawei and other vendors like mediatek, samsung, arm, xiaomi, etc. Huawei could make a bit different Kirin for other smartphone makers if they want to differentiate.

Huawei recent statement amid ZTE ban: that they will use kirin exclusively may apply for short term period due to limited current production capacity, or for political reason in order not to scare their competitors.



Chinese company doest want, but China government can control by impossing high tarriff for qualcom and high tax for android application, if US attack.

You ask why currently ZTE doesnt go to other suppliers? Very simple => Because if only ZTE alone use their all products with mediatek and alliyun , while their competitors (Huawei, Xiaomi, Vivo, Oppo, Lenovo, TCL, Meizu, One1, etc etc) are still can offer with Android, then consumers still prefer Android due to maturity of Android ecosystem, hence releasing all Aliyun smartphones is the same as committing suicide for ZTE at the current situation.

But if China ban Android & Qualcomm in her market, then ZTE's competitor and consumers has no choice than go for aliyun, mediatek/kirin/S2, etc.



LOL. That is your own (wrong) assumption. Because you dont know how company run business and have no clue about corporate financial practice.

As the matter of fact: if Qualcomm has got fund from issuance of bonds or stocks or get bank loan for the business expansion or for acquisition (NXP), hence Qualcomm should not deviate the fund for other purpose. It should be stated in the agreement with the bank or in the indenture of the bond. Hence the fund should not be used for other SBU (strategic business unit). The use of fund for other cashflow requirement will be Illegal!

Furthermore the loss or revenue drop should remain in that SBU (SOC), and the loss or revenue drop may not be cleared up with other incoming fund, hiding loss is manipulation and forgery. Then they have to release the P/L to investors and public. This loss should impact company market value hence the stock price should drop. However in the stock market usually investors are buying rumours or signals, hence the stock price will drop even before Qualcomm release Q2 P/L information, because investors has anticipated the potential decline of revenue due to this ban.



If that is your definition of "being isolationist" then being isolationist is good for China and other country. As you can see China economy has grown fantastically by being issolationist (according to your own definition).

This jhungary is a bad loser. Proven by facts to be wrong but continue thicknskinned and act on a brave front with twisted facts.

 

[LeGenD]

This LeGenD is a well known US boot licker, flying the Pakistan flag. He will closed all his eyes and claimed anything from US is the best. His words about China is as good as thrash.

And you give the impression of a pre-programmed Chinese bot, driven by lack of manners and arrogance.

My advice is to adopt a degree of independent thinking but this might be an alien concept to you due to daily dosage of 'nationalistic programming'.

I see positives and negatives in both China and USA (even my own country) and pinpoint them when I feel the need - objectivity in short.

I am not patronizing the actions of US here, just pointing out the obvious that a conflict with the world's greatest power is not in the best interests of China because its economy is exports-driven in large part.

People will suffer eventually. ZTE is down - and this is not a good sign.

Really? Mighty USA blocked chips for China supercomputer and guessed what?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recode.net/platform/amp/2017/6/20/15812270/china-fastest-supercomputer-us-exascale-department-energy-intel-nvidia-ibm

FYI:

Key components are American - remove them entirely and see what happens.

During the course of her presentation, Dr. Lu pointed out that the so-called Chinese accelerator (Matrix-2000) was in development years before American restrictions came into the picture.

More importantly, a good supercomputer is not about speed only. What it can do - is of greater significance. To this end, architectural complexity of the CPU (and GPU) is important. The Chinese accelerator is not mature enough for a wide-range of tasks yet.

To drive my point home - your system might be faster but mine is fast enough and relatively support a greater range of computational tasks/simulations/applications. A smart person will pick the latter any time.

By the way, US is developing some supercomputers which will dwarf existing generations in speed and capability. These would be revolutionary designs.

Difference between a layman and an engineer?

A layman focus on the aesthetics and advertised specifications. Conversely, an engineer focus on the functions and quality of the machinery beneath.

I pity your ignorant. ZTE is just a small fried company in China. The real deal
Is huawei. And China can easily killed off USA by banning iPhone right to manufacture in China and ban all iPhone sales. China suffer only few thousand of workers job losses but compare to complete closed down of Apple since 95% of their product is made in China. When u don’t have product to ship, your business is as good as zero. And I know you smart Alec will bragged Apple can shift to India to make phone. May I know how long will it take? Maybe in your pipe dream that all it take is 1 week and Apple can resume making iPhone as good and cheap as in China? Apple is the daring company in NASDAQ. If Apple collapsed , Wall Street will collapse.

US companies outsourcing their whole factory to China is at China mercy.

ZTE is not a small brand but a corporation with 70,000+ workers and a presence in many countries. ZTE products made a positive impression of Chinese goods in American markets (Huawei didn't).

FYI: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin...es-couldnt-enter-the-u-s-and-japanese-market/

This is not an encouraging story: https://m.theepochtimes.com/an-engi...res-faced-by-chinas-middle-class_2393399.html

Huawei is also under investigation for supplying products to Iran under the cover branding of F7, violating the terms of sanctions imposed by the UN on Iran. FYI: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...an-sanctions-violations-sources-idUSKBN1HW1YG

Apple has created approximately 5 million jobs in China alone. FYI: https://247wallst.com/jobs/2017/03/...lion-jobs-in-china-more-than-double-us-total/

Please go ahead and close its operations. I shall warn you that China has much more to loose by closing Apple than the US.

American economy is much bigger than Apple by the way.

You need to step out of your mom's basement more often because your knowledge of the world is terribly lacking.

US is not a paper tiger but a genuine superpower. Its influence (business; political; and cultural) is global in scale. Its war-machine is 2nd to none. A war with the US (trade and/or otherwise) is not in the best interests of China in the long-term.

If you assume that your country will exchange blows with the US and not suffer any consequences in the process, you are sadly mistaken. Your nationalism and jingoism won't make any difference actually.

Recommended course of action is to strike bargains with the US (and embrace fair trading practices) while you have the window. Time for shaddy business practices and patronizing rogue states is OVER.

ZTE landed in hot waters due to its business in Iran.

 

[Beast]

And you give the impression of a pre-programmed Chinese bot, driven by lack of manners and arrogance.

My advice is to adopt a degree of independent thinking but this might be an alien concept to you due to daily dosage of 'nationalistic programming'.

I see positives and negatives in both China and USA (even my own country) and pinpoint them when I feel the need - objectivity in short.

I am not patronizing the actions of US here, just pointing out the obvious that a conflict with the world's greatest power is not in the best interests of China because its economy is exports-driven in large part.

People will suffer eventually. ZTE is down - and this is not a good sign.


FYI:

Key components are American - remove them entirely and see what happens.

During the course of her presentation, Dr. Lu pointed out that the so-called Chinese accelerator (Matrix-2000) was in development years before American restrictions came into the picture.

More importantly, a good supercomputer is not about speed only. What it can do - is of greater significance. To this end, architectural complexity of the CPU (and GPU) is important. The Chinese accelerator is not mature enough for a wide-range of tasks yet.

To drive my point home - your system might be faster but mine is fast enough and relatively support a greater range of computational tasks/simulations/applications. A smart person will pick the latter any time.

By the way, US is developing some supercomputers which will dwarf existing generations in speed and capability. These would be revolutionary designs.

Difference between a layman and an engineer?

A layman focus on the aesthetics and advertised specifications. Conversely, an engineer focus on the functions and quality of the machinery beneath.


ZTE is not a small brand but a corporation with 70,000+ workers and a presence in many countries. ZTE products made a positive impression of Chinese goods in American markets (Huawei didn't).

FYI: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin...es-couldnt-enter-the-u-s-and-japanese-market/

This is not an encouraging story: https://m.theepochtimes.com/an-engi...res-faced-by-chinas-middle-class_2393399.html

Huawei is also under investigation for supplying products to Iran under the cover branding of F7, violating the terms of sanctions imposed by the UN on Iran. FYI: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...an-sanctions-violations-sources-idUSKBN1HW1YG

Apple has created approximately 5 million jobs in China alone. FYI: https://247wallst.com/jobs/2017/03/...lion-jobs-in-china-more-than-double-us-total/

Please go ahead and close its operations. I shall warn you that China has much more to loose by closing Apple than the US.

American economy is much bigger than Apple by the way.

You need to step out of your mom's basement more often because your knowledge of the world is terribly lacking.

US is not a paper tiger but a genuine superpower. Its influence (business; political; and cultural) is global in scale. Its war-machine is 2nd to none. A war with the US (trade and/or otherwise) is not in the best interests of China in the long-term.

If you assume that your country will exchange blows with the US and not suffer any consequences in the process, you are sadly mistaken. Your nationalism and jingoism won't make any difference actually.

Recommended course of action is to strike bargains with the US (and embrace fair trading practices) while you have the window. Time for shaddy business practices and patronizing rogue states is OVER.

ZTE landed in hot waters due to its business in Iran.

Typical selective posting. I am sure you know tianhe -2A is not the fastest supercomputer in China and the world. Why purposely omitted Taihu light? I am sure you know the fastest super computer is which one.

Your low life trick of trying to misled reader into thinking US really has edge over China just make you look stupid. Taihu light the most powerful super computer is 100% made in China including the most important CPU.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/6/20/11975356/chinese-supercomputer-worlds-fastes-taihulight

Just like you trying to project ZTE banned done most damage to China. In fact Qualcomm stock dropped a few percent and even announced retrench of few thousand worked in US. Of cos you will never mention all these. Cos you are a real US boot licker. Worship the white, despise your own race and Asian.

Apple will be the same like Lehman brothers , it’s collapsed will have the same effect like Dominco cards. The NASDAQ will crashed. If US pushed too far, we will let them see who called the shot.

 

[rott]

ZTE is not big in US market, but big enough in the WORLD Market for their telecom equipments, and they use qualcomm. That is why ZTE is important client of qualcomm. Qualcomm stock price decline due to this issue and they cut their employees already.

There are 2 scenarios where both will benefit china and harm us importance:

Scenario 1: US only embargo ZTE:

• ZTE will be crippled
• Qualcomm revenue will decline significantly, hence their future R&D will decline as well.
• Huawei will take advantage by taking over the market share left by ZTE and growing stronger, hence their R&D will be getting strong.
• Then perhaps in next 5 year Huawei products will be more advanced due to stronger r&d while Qualcomm products will be mediocre due to their decline. => china benefit, us loose.

Scenario 2: US embargo most chinese tech companies (ZTE, Huawei, Xiaomi, Vivo, Oppo, Lenovo, TCL, One1, Meizu, etc):

• Qualcomm and other US suppliers supplying to them will die
• China will force her smartphone companies to use domestic processor (speadtrum, kirin, etc) or mediatek, and chinese OS (Alliyun, etc), by imposing high tarriff on US tech and high tax for Android users.
• Chinese smartphone producers still can be alive with chinese market, though their overseas sales may decrease but they can build foothold with their own technology in overseas market; while US apple will be impacted severely either due to being bared or imposed high tax in chinese market.
  
• At the end, chinese OS will rise to compete with Android, and chinese processor (kirin, speadtrum) will become leaders supllanting dying Qualcomm etc. => china benefit, us loose.

As you see, with both scenario US will suffer more and china will benefit.

In fact the embargo to ZTE is a movement that benefit China though harm ZTE. Because due to this embargo, china have reason to take actions that benefit her purpose to become self reliance in technology like subsidizing her domestic tech companies, protecting her tech companies by regulations or imposing barrier or high tarrif on imported technologies, etc though that measurements are against spirit of free trade committed by most countries including china.



In fact it will be good for China in a long run.

Isolationist will be bad for smaller country;but it will not that bad for country with huge market and abundant natural resources. In fact isolationist china will harm other countries (US, japan, korea, europe, etc) more than china herself.

It may not be good for international trade and economic purpose which will bring efficiency for all countries participating in free trade (economic theory). But it will definitely be good for china if US impair this free trade by embargoing china. Means China will and need to do that if US stop supplying her the technology that she need. That is 100% certain.



Building own domestic supplier doesn't mean being isolationist.

China has done it before, and as you may have seen China were still be able to enjoy free trade while establishing own domestic suppliers (eg: robotics, telcom, high speed train, heavy machineries, etc).

You're right. This is a good move by the US to benefit China.
Shooting their own foot.

 

[OIO]

Huawai growing big never establish their present in US market, likely all China high tech company will ween themselves off dependent of US export tech components. Make in China 2025 is about dominate the tech industry without rely on import of any components from abroad. A heckup at the moment for China ZTE to sustain their production but in a loss long run China domestic Tech company will provide a full economic system for China high tech industry.

China is insecure, 2025 is not about dominate but replacement.

 

[somsak]

zte main business is not Mobile phone, but the Mobile Service provider's side electronic equipment such as Digital Switching, BTS, etc. Therefore, even with this Qualcomm banned, still cannot destroy ZTE completely. To destroy ZTE completely, one must show that the BTS, Digital Swiches can not be manufacturered because some imporant US imported components.

 

[LeGenD]

Typical selective posting. I am sure you know tianhe -2A is not the fastest supercomputer in China and the world. Why purposely omitted Taihu light? I am sure you know the fastest super computer is which one.

Your low life trick of trying to misled reader into thinking US really has edge over China just make you look stupid. Taihu light the most powerful super computer is 100% made in China including the most important CPU.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/6/20/11975356/chinese-supercomputer-worlds-fastes-taihulight

Just like you trying to project ZTE banned done most damage to China. In fact Qualcomm stock dropped a few percent and even announced retrench of few thousand worked in US. Of cos you will never mention all these. Cos you are a real US boot locker. Worship the white, despise your own race and Asian.

Apple will be the same like Lehman brothers , it’s collapsed will have the same effect like Dominco cards. The NASDAQ will crashed. If US pushed too far, we will let them see who called the shot.

The supposedly domestic supercomputer Taihu-Light is also a highly specialized system, and its existence doesn't overshadow the (behind-the-scenes) reality of overwhelming Chinese dependence on American technologies for day-to-day operations in practice.

ZTE, Huawei, BATX (Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Xiaomi), Didi (China’s Uber), ICBC, Bank of China, China Mobile, China Telecom, Petro China, SAIC Motor and many others rely American technologies (components, software and intellectual properties) to function. Notable American/Western suppliers include Apple, 3M, AMD, Applied Materials, Cisco, Corning, Google, Intel, Micron, Microsoft, Qualcomm, Seagate and Western Digital.

ZTE episode has shook the Chinese state to the core, to the point that even Chinese primier Xi had to issue a statement and promise Chinese tech-independence drive.

However, statements are easy to make; implications are to be accounted for.

I get the impression that US is trying to extract concessions from China in the ongoing trade war between the two. A shot at ZTE has been fired to send a message. Huawei might be next on the line.

At this rate, China will have to reboot its economic order if it is to seek tech-independence. And this is an uncertain journey with implications for Chinese geopolitics.

I wish your country well at personal capacity but this doesn't imply that I will not speak my mind on various issues. Like it or not, a war with the US is not in the best interests of your country.

If Pakistan, UK, South Korea and Japan weren't cooperating with your country - YOUR country wouldn't be as strong as it is today.

Stick your pride in your pockets. And be thankful to those who have supported your country over the course of years.

 

[Dai Toruko]

The UK government has also announced a total ban on British telecom companies from using ZTE equipments due to national security risks.

 

[Mrc]

@zte welcome to pakistan

 

[LeGenD]

You boot-licks are so disgusting. So unspeakably disgusting.

Watch your bloody attitude and people will be more forthcoming.

I am not a boot-licker of any country - not even my own. This is how I am.

China has its share of strengths and weaknesses just like any country. I see no point in boasting about your strengths all the time. Accept your limitations and do not misbehave with potential critics.