The Ultimate CSD Killer

[MilSpec]

6th April 1998, Pakistan for the first time test fires it's Ghauri-1 intermediate range missile......India has no answer except carrying out nuclear tests a few weeks later......the rest is history.....no guessing who got trolled big time.

To begin with Ghauri-1 or Nodong 1 is not an intermediate range ballistic missile, IRBM are 3000-5000 km missiles. there, and MCTR sanction for pakistan as bonus.

 

[SamantK]

We don't need missiles that fly over India....rather we developed those that hit the mark.

And we make them to scare kids

 

[notorious_eagle]

@Windjammer

I wouldn't call NASR a CSD killer, i would rather use the words 'insurance policy'. First of all, for NASR to be deployed the IA brigades would have to take out a huge bite out of PA's Armour, literally render it toothless against the advancing IA Armoured Formations. Looking at the current balance of forces, this seems highly unlikely. In fact, IA dominating local area battles seem highly unlikely.

Punjab serves as a natural impediment against advancing Armour. The topography, environment, vegetation and canals serve as a natural barrier for any advancing force and a wonderful force multiplier for the defending force. Thar will likely witness much more fluid battles, this is why PA has deployed AK's which cancels out the T90S. The most frightening scenario was when the IA purchased the Smerch system(40), they could batter any mass formations off PA from mass distances. Now PA has purchased the A-100 system which provides an automatic counter battery to the Smerch system and PA is raising 42 regiments, couple that with our advantage in SP artillery, PA has enough fire power to pound any advancing Indian Armour right at the border. Couple that with PA's Frontier Units which are much more mobile and well setup with their ATGM Hell Holes, IA advancing Armour will be facing attrition right from the start. So even before IA Armour comes into contact with PA's Armour, they will have already faced constant pounding backed up from a vulnerable supply line which is always going to be under threat of flanking and facing heavy pounding from PA's Artillery.

If i were a betting man, i wouldn't bet much on PA using the NASR as PA's conventional firepower is strong enough to rout any advancing Indian Armour, but its always good to have an insurance policy.

 

[Windjammer]

@notorious_eagle, sir, a very good insight into the PA's war doctrine and capability.

I guess it helps a lot if one knows the pros and cons of the subject.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Windjammer

I wouldn't call NASR a CSD killer, i would rather use the words 'insurance policy'. First of all, for NASR to be deployed the IA brigades would have to take out a huge bite out of PA's Armour, literally render it toothless against the advancing IA Armoured Formations. Looking at the current balance of forces, this seems highly unlikely. In fact, IA dominating local area battles seem highly unlikely.

Punjab serves as a natural impediment against advancing Armour. The topography, environment, vegetation and canals serve as a natural barrier for any advancing force and a wonderful force multiplier for the defending force. Thar will likely witness much more fluid battles, this is why PA has deployed AK's which cancels out the T90S. The most frightening scenario was when the IA purchased the Smerch system(40), they could batter any mass formations off PA from mass distances. Now PA has purchased the A-100 system which provides an automatic counter battery to the Smerch system and PA is raising 42 regiments, couple that with our advantage in SP artillery, PA has enough fire power to pound any advancing Indian Armour right at the border. Couple that with PA's Frontier Units which are much more mobile and well setup with their ATGM Hell Holes, IA advancing Armour will be facing attrition right from the start. So even before IA Armour comes into contact with PA's Armour, they will have already faced constant pounding backed up from a vulnerable supply line which is always going to be under threat of flanking and facing heavy pounding from PA's Artillery.

If i were a betting man, i wouldn't bet much on PA using the NASR as PA's conventional firepower is strong enough to rout any advancing Indian Armour, but its always good to have an insurance policy.

HeHeHe; Only Mazari can call Nasr "the ultimate CSD Killer"; being the hyper-media creature that she is.

You are right in not following Mazari's lead in doing so. About Nasr being an "insurance"; even that is dubious. If the Nasr in the form of a TNW; gets used then it automatically triggers the Nuclear Response Button on the other side. Will a TNW be only responded with by a TNW? More so since the other side sees Nuclear Weapons as Strategic Weapons. So what do you end up insuring? Not much. Apart from just raising the Stakes in the game of "Nuclear Poker". And I am not even talking about how your own TNW will impact you yourself.

If you are a betting man, (as you say in your last sentence) then you'd be better off not betting where the stakes rise phenomenally so much; that you don't know whether to "hold or to fold"!

 

[rockstarIN]

If the so called CSD is true, it involves a set of air crafts, armory+heli gun ships, mounted air defense systems(highly mobile) plus other artilery and short range rocket/missile systems.
@notorious_eagle's post gave a very narrow picture about IA thrust using only limited fire power which is very much conventional.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If the so called CSD is true, it involves a set of air crafts, armory+heli gun ships, mounted air defense systems(highly mobile) plus other artilery and short range rocket/missile systems.
@notorious_eagle's post gave a very narrow picture about IA thrust using only limited fire power which is very much conventional.

He was probably in a bit of a hurry to post. Since he overlooked an integrated force of Armor, Mech Inf., AAC Attack Choppers (that is what Rudra, LCH and Apaches are for), Mobile Arty, CAS/BAS; not to forget Drones.

So he ended up painting just a rudimentary outline of the picture; not the whole picture.

 

[manojb]

6th April 1998, Pakistan for the first time test fires it's Ghauri-1 intermediate range missile......India has no answer except carrying out nuclear tests a few weeks later......the rest is history.....no guessing who got trolled big time.

India tested first Satellite Launch vehicle in 1979.. i hope you were born then !!

 

[KRAIT]

India tested first Satellite Launch vehicle in 1979.. i hope you were born then !!

We don't need CSD or any doctrine to weaken Pakistan.

They are doing it themselves pretty well.

 

[Windjammer]

India tested first Satellite Launch vehicle in 1979.. i hope you were born then !!

India has launched 60 satellites (as of 26 April 2012) of many types since its first attempt in 1975. Satellites have been launched from various vehicles, including American, Russian, European satellite-launch rockets, and the U.S. Space Shuttle. The organisation responsible for Indian satellites is the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

Care to justify your existence by expanding on how your claim concerns the indigenous arms race, which happens to be the psyche of the subject. !!!

 

[Ayush]

ultimate csd killer. no not yet.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

ultimate csd killer. no not yet.

Agreed. also because CSD (in the form that is commonly talked about) just does not exist.
So how does one kill a non-existent entity?

 

[Paan Singh]

Pakistan can keep developing nukes bla bla or deploying tanks near punjab border but do we need to attack there? no ..

Strategically we want land connectivity with A-stan which we cant get from other parts of pakistan but only through gilgit etc and thats the reason india dont solve kashmir issue.

You can keep your batteries tanks etc on punjab border and even if we advance further in gilgit etc then you will be nuking your own territory and forcing india to nuke rest of your country

so my simple scenario is pakistan nuking its own territory n killing its own people

WE have no gain to break baluchistan or taking any other part .

 

[notorious_eagle]

You are right in not following Mazari's lead in doing so. About Nasr being an "insurance"; even that is dubious. If the Nasr in the form of a TNW; gets used then it automatically triggers the Nuclear Response Button on the other side. Will a TNW be only responded with by a TNW? More so since the other side sees Nuclear Weapons as Strategic Weapons. So what do you end up insuring? Not much. Apart from just raising the Stakes in the game of "Nuclear Poker". And I am not even talking about how your own TNW will impact you yourself.

If you are a betting man, (as you say in your last sentence) then you'd be better off not betting where the stakes rise phenomenally so much; that you don't know whether to "hold or to fold"!

The only time when NASR will be used is when Pakistan's entire existential existence is at stake. It means the IA has managed to effectively neutralize PA's war-fighting capability by effectively disbanding her Armour, has breached the N5 Highway, have effectively split up Islamabad-Karachi Axis and rolling towards Islamabad. Only than will NASR be likely fired to warn the Indian policy makers that Pakistan's red lines have been breached, and the next strike is going to be strategic.

India does not keep her nukes like Pakistan in assembled form, its stored in component for. The only two countries that keep their nukes in assembled form and ready to fire in seconds notice is US and Russia. NASR is designed to be a light small rocket that can quickly be assembled on the battlefield giving the battle field commanders the required vacuum they need to manoeuvre. Strategic nukes are big and they take time to assemble, thus if India starts assembling her strategic nukes, that is not something you can hide under the rug, expect the order to go out on Pakistan's side to start assembling their nuke too. In fact, in my opinion the order would immediately go out once Pakistan's existence is at stake and NASR has been fired. Thus, both sides will be roughly prepared at the same to initiate a strategic strike. It will be upto India whether she wants to fry out the entire subcontinent, or loose an entire Armoured Brigade in a foreign territory. This is one of the biggest cons of 'Nuclear Poker' as you suggested, you never know what the threshold and you certainly pray to God that you never find out in real life.

He was probably in a bit of a hurry to post. Since he overlooked an integrated force of Armor, Mech Inf., AAC Attack Choppers (that is what Rudra, LCH and Apaches are for), Mobile Arty, CAS/BAS; not to forget Drones.

So he ended up painting just a rudimentary outline of the picture; not the whole picture.

Not at all, but its always the Armour which leads the attack and takes the bit out of the enemy's defences. Your attack choppers are going to be the most vulnerable as they will be operating in a very dense environment and are going to be constantly under the threat of air interdiction and SAM/AAA mobile batteries. PAF's high altitude AD coverage needs beefing up, but i would argue PAF's low altitude AD coverage is deadly at best especially in a dense environment like Indo-Pak. IAF cannot possibly provide the back up to IA's Choppers as she would be busy duelling out with the PAF in early phases of the war. I am more worried off those T90's rather than the Attack Helo's, Mobile Arty(PA has an advantage in this field) or the Drones.

If the so called CSD is true, it involves a set of air crafts, armory+heli gun ships, mounted air defense systems(highly mobile) plus other artilery and short range rocket/missile systems.
@notorious_eagle's post gave a very narrow picture about IA thrust using only limited fire power which is very much conventional.

You are more than welcome to expand, instead of posting a one liner

 

[ares]

6th April 1998, Pakistan for the first time test fires it's Ghauri-1 intermediate range missile......India has no answer except carrying out nuclear tests a few weeks later......the rest is history.....no guessing who got trolled big time.

LoL ...Agni 1(750Km -1250Km range) was first test fired May 22, 1989..A decade ahead of your bought and paid for Nodong missile.

India had planned nuclear tests for a long time and extensive measures were undertaken to keep it from prying eyes of Americans.

We tested the weapons at a time and in the manner of our own choosing, it was in fact Pakistan, which got trolled, by following us and getting itself sanctioned .

Even when its economy was at its weakest in decades and foreign reserves were non existent($1 Billion).

In fact I distinctly remember Pakistan pleading to Saudi Arabians for some 'free oil'..because they could no longer foot the bill.