The truth about the F-22

[zon95]

where is the data that shows the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22??

Like I said he's marketing the F-35. When you are buying thousands of them and your allies are buying 100's you gotta pitch it to justify the costs


it's a good plane, but I'm just doubting it's RCS is smaller than the F-22, and B-2s


and this isn't individualism this is from multiple articles I have read about the F-22 and F-35.

where is the data that shows the F-22 is stealthier than the F-35??

you say and you believe but who can proof it ? you've read the words advertising and inflated

it's a good plane, but wait!

with the technology of the 1990s?!
without no HMDS, IRST system, Targeting pod, SAR mode, the RAM?

Everything you read about the F-22 was incorrect, please update the information. F-22 F-35 is inferior in every way, it was just better at F-35 capability A2A

 

[C130]

where is the data that shows the F-22 is stealthier than the F-35??

you say and you believe but who can proof it ? you've read the words advertising and inflated

Warplanes: F-22 Stealth Ability Revealed by USAF

November 25, 2005: The U.S. Air Force, in it's effort to get money to build more F-22s, has revealed just how "stealthy" the F-22 is. It's RCS (Radar Cross Section) is the equivalent, for a radar, to a metal marble. The less stealthy (and much cheaper) F-35, is equal to a metal golf ball. The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber, which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117. Much older aircraft, like the B-52, have a huge RCS, which makes them very easy to spot on radar. But with a smaller RCS, it's more likely that the aircraft won't be detected at all.

The air force revealed this information, which is usually kept secret, because it wants to make the case that it makes more sense to cut production of the F-35 (which cost $30-50 million each), so that more F-22s (that cost over $100 million each) can be bought. Most of the air force generals are former fighter pilots, and the F-22 is a much hotter fighter than the F-35 (which is basically a fighter-bomber, with emphasis on the latter function.) This is causing an international uproar, because of the many foreign countries that are buying the F-35. Some of these countries have contributed money for the development of the F-35. The F-22 will not be exported, because it uses so much top secret technology.

it's pretty much common knowledge.

all we go on for the F-35 being stealthier is one guy saying it is.

 

[zon95]

Warplanes: F-22 Stealth Ability Revealed by USAF





it's pretty much common knowledge.

all we go on for the F-35 being stealthier is one guy saying it is.

last updated November 25, 2005

what I say: Everything you read about the F-22 was incorrect, please update the information. F-22 is inferior in every way, it was just better at F-35 capability A2A

F-22A Raptor

RCS (Generalized): 0.00018 m2 (-37.45 dBsm)

Notes: Based off public USAF news release that states the F-22A's RCS is “about that of a marble”. This assumes that the “marble” refers to an average glass marble between the two most common sizes (14.4mm and 16mm in diameter).

RCS of Typical Radar Targets - 2008

F-22 RCS 0.0001

Radar Cross Section (RCS) - 2011

F-22s RCS should be between 0,0001 and 0,0014 m2

F-22 Analysis « Defense Issues -2012

Much of the information resources of the West, US
Each time, the F-22 has a different parameter RCS. Thus F-22 filled with doubts and propaganda

 

[Penguin]

The truth about the F-22 is this:
- it has been in operational service since 2005
- most likely (and with very few exceptions) , your airforce doesn't have anything even remotely similar today.

 

[black-hawk_101]

It's a plane of a class. Japan, Australia and Israel were interested in acquiring it. Even KSA and UAE showed interest in it too.
But I am sure USA will sell F-35s to ME in coming years.

 

[untitled]

A better way to start this thread would have been why was the YF-22 chosen over the YF-23?

 

[gambit]

Everyone should just simply agree with Mr. VM. Judging from the starter post, there is nothing worth debating here.

 

[anon45]

but to counter reply to your points.

1. I believe F-22 is still stealthier than the F-35. F-22 RCS is comparable to a marble while the F-35 is a golf ball. the RAM might be superior on the F-35, but RAM isn't the only factor that goes into reducing/determining RCS.

2. I believe this is true. Avionics are constantly being improved. So we shouldn't be surprised that planes designed later would have better avionics.

3. I'm calling bullshit on this one

4. no

5. true, but not for long F-22 Raptor Getting High-Tech Helmets - Business Insider
but I can see why they didn't rush from HMCS in the first place when you got radar guided AIM-120s that can kill from BVR.

6. no

7. it's a slow process. don't think we were ever in a hurry to field and upgrade the F-22

8. F-22 for a time was the only 5th gen aircraft. I bet Russia and China have encountered accidents as well with their 5th gen fighters.

9. F-22 role was never intended for anti-shipping you had the F-18,P-3 , and S-3 Vikings for that role.

10. irrelevant. it can super-cruise and has stealth. it doesn't need to be fast (mach 2+). it's kinematics are the best in the world.

11. AIM-9M and Aim-120 C-5/6 are good enough.

I remember that rcs quote was some years back though...possibly new advances in stealth coating/ram utilized on the f-35 but not on the f-22? Also possible the good general is just muddying the waters, but I wouldn't just call it a marketing ploy. He isn't a lockheed salesman.

It would make sense that upgrades would be costly and time consuming. The line has shut down and the people dispersed,and also there are simply few planes to upgrade. Because of this it will be expensive.

otherwise bs here i agree.I mean the SR-71 also had a higher max speed, and higher operating ceiling...so what?

 

[500]

We have lived with the propaganda and hype about the power the F-22 too long. From year 2000 to 2012.

F-22 is NOT overrated. It IS the most deadly AA fighter in the world. More over, it is even much stronger than any fighter which is only being developed now.

1. F-22 is not a stealth aircraft world number one. F-35 has RCS smaller than F-22

Frontal RCS of F-35 better, sides, bottom and rear F-22 better.

2. The F-22 is not the aircraft avionics world number one. F-35, Typhoon and Rafale have even better technology on F-22's systems

APG-77 is the most powerful fighter radar. ALR-94 is the most advanced passive detector. Air to ground F-22 is poor, but AA it is the best.

3. The F-22 is not the most maneuverable aircraft world. Su-27/30/35, Rafale, F-15C, F-16C/E, Typhoon even J-10/11 are the maneuverability aircraft F-22 higher

J-10 not even close. Rest see #4.

4. F-22 in the duel with Typhoon, EA-18G, Rafale ....! F-22 are intended to fail.

Only in cannon duel WW1 style (note I say WW1 coz in WW2 boom zoom tactics rocked and F-22 is great in it).

5. F-22 aircraft is the only 5th generation no HMDS system, Typhoon, Rafale even MiG-35 are equipped with this system.

No need, its overkill anyway.

6. F-22 aircraft is the only 5th generation without using materials RAM

No.

7. F-22 is struggling to upgrade avionics and weapons. Expected in the period 2017-2020, the F-22 can use the AIM-9X, AIM-120D and HMDS was put on equipment.

No need, its overkill anyway.

8. F-22 is a 5th generation aircraft first encounter many accidents.

Last crash was 3 years ago. The major problems in g-suits rather in plane itself.

9. F-22 does not have the ability to use anti-ship weapon.

With GBU-53 it will be able. Currently ground attack capabilities of F-22 are far better than F-15A/C.

10. The maximum speed of the F-22 is inferior to the MiG-21 and F-4

Only in clean configuration without weapons. Plus F-22 can supercruise. Afterburner is for very limited time.

11. Until the present time, the F-22 only use AIM-9M, AIM-120C5/6 (unknown F-22 can use version AIM-12C7)

It will get AIM-120D. Right now AIM120C5 is overkill.

12. F-22 is a 5th generation aircraft not SAR (synthetic aperture radar)

No need for AA.

 

[bidonv]

F-22 Raptor and F-15 Eagle Radar avoidance training 2016 in Wales,UK

 

[UKBengali]

F-22 is NOT overrated. It IS the most deadly AA fighter in the world. More over, it is even much stronger than any fighter which is only being developed now.

Not against J-20 as it will be comparable.