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The Sino-Japanese theoretical Naval War of 2012: an analysis

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If Japan does go to war over Diaoyu islands I wonder what will be the reactions of nations and people in this whole general region.

Most will side with Japan, because China has become the common enemy of countries around the South China Sea. Even Taiwan will back Japan as Taiwan is better off with Diaoyudai under Japanese control than under Chinese control.

Of course, in a longer run, the biggest winner would be the number one arm merchant of the world and there'll only one loser and that is Japan herself.
Japan can't lose, because not only is Japan's naval force far stronger than the PLA Navy, but the US is guaranteed to intervene and retake the Diaoyudai on behalf of Japan under the legal obligations of the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty, which covers Diaoyudai.
 
Most will side with Japan, because China has become the common enemy of countries around the South China Sea. Even Taiwan will back Japan as Taiwan is better off with Diaoyudai under Japanese control than under Chinese control.

Only Vietnam and Fillipine, the rest such Cambodia, Thailand..they don't really care. As for Taiwan, people start to join force with mainland..we're after all chineses, you're just outside have no clue of the development...if everything go well, it good possible chance that might end up with a reunification...nobody know, we chinese alway believe Crise = Opportunity.


Japan can't lose, because not only is Japan's naval force far stronger than the PLA Navy, but the US is guaranteed to intervene and retake the Diaoyudai on behalf of Japan under the legal obligations of the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty, which covers Diaoyudai.

US engagement will depend on how well or how bad the situation, Americans sure know how to find the loophole as well as support Japan even with the Mutual defense Treaty...here's an article that might interested you and have a good reading.

Senkaku or Diaoyu? Japan, China Feud over Islands in East China Sea | U.S. | TIME.com
 

But for all that, a direct confrontation at sea is unlikely, says Alessio Patalano, a Japan naval historian and East Asia security specialist at the Department of War Studies, King’s College London. He notes that the patrol vessels cruising Senkaku/Diaoyu belong to neither China’s navy nor its coast guard; instead, they are part of the Chinese marine-surveillance service, a largely civilian organization charged with environmental protection, scientific research, enforcement issues related to exclusive economic zones and similar duties.

“The PLA Navy is aware of its limitations, and they don’t want to get a beating from the Japanese,” says Patalano, who presented a series of lectures in Beijing and Tokyo this month. “The more likely scenario would be for China to insert special forces under cover of night, by parachute or other means. When the Japanese wake up in the morning and see Chinese soldiers on one of their islands, what do they do then?”

Brad Glosserman, executive director of the Pacific Forum CSIS in Honolulu, says there’s little doubt that the U.S. would respond if shooting were to break out between China and Japan. The key, Glosserman says, is to make sure the Japanese know exactly what they can count on from the U.S. — and what, if anything, they can’t.

“The U.S. will be there, because if we aren’t, our credibility is shot and the Japanese will never trust us again. That would transform the regional security environment, and the Chinese will think they have carte blanche,” says Glosserman. “But the problem is, do Americans and Japanese agree on what ‘being there’ means? Does that mean submarines? Surface warships? Helicopters with Marines rappelling to the ground? The Americans need to understand what the Japanese expect of them, because failure to do those things could cause big problems.”

The US will send in marines to retake Diaoyudai from the PLA if the PLA seize it by surprise.
 
Only Vietnam and Fillipine, the rest such Cambodia, Thailand..they don't really care. As for Taiwan, people start to join force with mainland..we're after all chineses, you're just outside have no clue of the development...if everything go well, it good possible chance that might end up with a reunification...nobody know, we chinese alway believe Crise = Opportunity.
you're quite naive if you actually believe taiwanese will unify with the mainland due to such crises. hong-kong is a clear example where the mainland failed, and the taiwanese have no intentions of repeating that mistake. most prefer status-quo.
 
you're quite naive if you actually believe taiwanese will unify with the mainland due to such crises. hong-kong is a clear example where the mainland failed, and the taiwanese have no intentions of repeating that mistake. most prefer status-quo.

Taiwan's DPP wants to hand over Diaoyudai to Japan in exchange for Japan's recognition of the Republic of Taiwan.

Having said that, Diaoyudai is a territory of Taiwan and it is funny to see Japan and China fight over what's not theirs.
 
you're quite naive if you actually believe taiwanese will unify with the mainland due to such crises. hong-kong is a clear example where the mainland failed, and the taiwanese have no intentions of repeating that mistake. most prefer status-quo.

well, india's dirty plot is to spread separatism through out chinese. but believe me, taiwanese still prefer unification with mailand china much more than to india, LMAO
 
well, india's dirty plot is to spread separatism through out chinese. but believe me, taiwanese still prefer unification with mailand china much more than to india, LMAO

taiwan has plan to unify with India??? :blink: by the way,as for starters,did you ever hear about Chinese Civil War??
 
Only Vietnam and Fillipine, the rest such Cambodia, Thailand..they don't really care. As for Taiwan, people start to join force with mainland..we're after all chineses, you're just outside have no clue of the development...if everything go well, it good possible chance that might end up with a reunification...nobody know, we chinese alway believe Crise = Opportunity.


US engagement will depend on how well or how bad the situation, Americans sure know how to find the loophole as well as support Japan even with the Mutual defense Treaty...here's an article that might interested you and have a good reading.

Senkaku or Diaoyu? Japan, China Feud over Islands in East China Sea | U.S. | TIME.com

Its Filipinos morons can't even say that right and really Taiwan reunite talk about illusions of grandeur your fighting a multiple front that means attacks can come any were and you understatement them they have mini base everywhere not just the well known bases and one they have strike forces always ready not just in Hawaii and Japan but also in Alaska and the rest of mainland US you have to take those out to even if manage to defeat all of the nations of Asia your force will be spent and weaken you send occupation troops to said countries they formed Resistance groups if failed to occupy them they just formed new units to attack you with even the most advance ship can still take damage from small boat pack of explosives etc so ya fighting a almost everybody can hurt you people both economically and militarily and i don't think the mafia group run so called people's republic are that stupid to jeopardized all of that.
 
Taiwan's DPP wants to hand over Diaoyudai to Japan in exchange for Japan's recognition of the Republic of Taiwan.

Having said that, Diaoyudai is a territory of Taiwan and it is funny to see Japan and China fight over what's not theirs.

You Koreans are a threat to both China and Japan. I dont trust both Korea.

Koreans will be Koreans

The US will send in marines to retake Diaoyudai from the PLA if the PLA seize it by surprise.

If the Americans was to attack Chinese forces there, that would mean war, Nuclear War. Any retake means to take back that was once theirs. America does not own Diaoyudia. Also you called the island in the Chinese name.
 
There will NEVER BE A WAR BETWEEN CHINA AND JAPAN. I will tell you why.

War is a costly things. Does not matter how much money you get, it will still cost you. A ship costed billion of dollars. A fighter plane cost Millions of dollars, a missile cost millions of dollar. When it come down to. bullet cost a few bucks. water, food, clothing each cost a lot of money. The most consumed is fuel, and they are the most expensive.

When you talk about hardware on both side. Both side can more than easily replace their lost, but the problem is. The military hardware the Japanese using is old (There are only 2 new combat ship get into service last year 1 Akizuki Class Destroyer and 1 Soryu Class Sub). Almost all their ship have a service life of 3-5 years already (In some case, 10 years +) So their ship has already paid for themselve.

When you look at the PLAN. Dude to the modernization, bulk of the PLAN ship are made between 2010-2012 and a great deal of it is still building and under sea trial (6 ship put in service 2012, with 10+ building) For the PLAN, those are blank new equipment and if any of the ship loss, that would be a total wipe off for the PLAN.

That being said. A combat ship is built for combat, whether or not they just rolled out of assemble line or not. And as i said, both country could and should pay for their own loss. So it does not mean much.

What mean much is, China will be fighing an Away war with the cover Chinese navy have to cov er twice as much as their japanese Counterpart. As i said in many many post before, unless PLAN have access to Keilung Harbor in Taiwan, the geological distant will be in favor Japanese. And what that mean is, it take twice the time for Chinese to supply their ship away in operation than the japanese. Technically, you can compensate by having twice the supply force to equal or at least close the gap on the logistic issue, but Chinese neither have the experience and hardware to do something like that.

And that was just assuming Chinese only Face Japan. When you put US 7th Fleet in the picture. Suddently, Chinese did not just face the 30 Destroyer, Frigate and their Aircraft carrier. But also the 50 US Combat ship from 7th Fleet and the 2 Carrier Group stationed with the 7th. That would become an impossivle task for CHinese to break thru the Senkaku.

The geological problem also put Japanese Air Defence Force in favor of their situation. Assume there are no airfield in Senkaku itself. The nearest PLAAF Airfield is about 200 mile away while the closest JASDF field are only 96 mile. For anyone familiar with Air Operation. That mean Japanese can send 2 sortie for every Chinese sortie airborne.

There aren't even points to talk about putting Chinese soldier on the island, unless China have Navall AND Air dominance, there are no chance for Chinese to have an uninterruped landing and airdrop on senkaku itself.

What even funnier is, actually, the more time the Chinese waited for them to get stronger, the sitaution is actually swing in favor to Japanese. You may say what the hell? But the fact to the matter is, anyone who want to conquer senkaku. they need to occupy the island itself. And anyone who want to occupy the island need to fight for it. And island warfare is one of the most primate and tradition warfare as you can get. You fight in an extreme close quarter and with hidden obstacle. All of the requirement to island warfare will NEGATE ALL TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE on either side. China can work hard and pay alot to increase and improve their armament. But when you come down to close quarter island warfare. Those advantage will be gone and the assault force have to be feed in constantly and the whole senkaku would become one big meat grinder. The more time Chinese needed to develope technology and build up force, the more time Japanese have to fortify their position.

However, i sould say, eventually, if US does not intervene, Chinese WILL come out as a victor, but at what cost?? And if US intervene (I don't really care about all other south east asian nation), China have no hope on recovering the island, but only maintain a status quo. That is what i see from the issue in senkaku
 
A naval battle around the Diaoyudai has single possible outcome, a Chinese defeat.

The reason is that Japanese can intercept most of Chinese anti-ship missiles with the AEGIS and FCS3 air defense systems, while the PLA warships can't stop Japanese anti-ship missiles.

The PLA could try to make up for the surface shortfalls by engaging in a sub warfare, but the Chinese subs are noisy and can't escape too well.

Why wouldn't the Chinese ships be able to intercept Japanese anti-ship missiles? Chinese ships has integrated missile defense system just like the Japanese ships, not to mention the Chinese anti-ship missiles have a 200km range advantage over the most advanced Japanese missiles and how exactly is the Japan vessel's system gonna handle saturated strikes? The Chinese navy is capable of launching such an attack, but the reverse is not true.

It is not, it is basically a crapshoot. What the Chinese are trying to do is to divert the US battle group's attention so that they could hit the carrier with air-launched anti-ship missiles or sub-launched torpedoes.

The missiles used in 96 is not DF-21D at all. DF-21D is developed in 2005. It is a intermediate range ballistic anti-ship missile with a mach 10 terminal approach velocity. It is designed with express purpose of defeating US anti-missile defense (through sheer speed).

The mean problem face by China in 96 Taiwan crisis is that at that point of time, the backbone of Chinese air force mainly consists of outdated J-8, which simply doesn't have the range to reach Taiwan and mount a credible offense, thus forcing the Chinese government to resort to missiles. (The # of Su-27 in PLAF is too small and too valuable to waste) Nowadays, however, Shengyang J-11 and Su-27's combat radius is very capable of covering taiwan and Diaoyu island, even the J-10 can do it in a pinch. The J-15 and J-20, which are in air tests, also have combat radius that enable them to cover the distance easily.

The US will send in marines to retake Diaoyudai from the PLA if the PLA seize it by surprise.

Currently direct combat record between US and Chinese forces are 3 to nothing in Chinese favor, I highly doubt US is in a hurry to make attempt number 4.
 
The result is that too many people will die for a couple of islands, and that's that.
 
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