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The sad state of Kashmir

ito

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http://tribune.com.pk/story/1246318/sad-state-kashmir/

Just after Partition, the Pakistani state claimed the complete Kashmir as its legitimate territory
which should be certified by a plebiscite by the Kashmiri people based on the fact that majority
of its inhabitants are Muslims. “Kashmir humari sha ragh hay” is the major slogan sung by
Pakistanis and the claim that the letter “K” in Pakistan is for Kashmir.

On the contrary, in 1963, the Pakistani side under Field Marshal General Ayub Khan announced giving Kashmir’s 13,000 square miles land to China on Kashmir’s border with the Chinese region of Xinjiang. It means we were ready to give some part of our vital land as gift to China. Then in 1972, PM Zulfikar Ali Bhutto accepted the Line of Control (LOC) as an almost official border and in 2006, president General (retd) Pervez Musharraf gave a proposal which included two major points. Firstly, borders between Pakistan and India remain the same and secondly, Kashmir be given autonomy but not independence. These chronological events clearly show that Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir has been going back slowly and steadily. This means that the “sha rag” is no longer considered as such
practically but only remains so in speeches and slogans. The people of Kashmir on the Indian side have not accepted Indian domination even after more than 68 years. Interestingly, India has millions of Muslims living peacefully in other parts of India but continuous wave of revolts and protests against the Indian regime can be seen in Kashmir. Either it is because of the continuous and deliberate interference of Pakistan in Kashmir or the brutal and inhumane behaviour of the Indian regime which includes pallet guns, disappearances, extra judicial murders etc., or maybe it is because of the nature of the people of Kashmir to not bow down against injustice and stand for their freedom.

Whatever may be the case, the Kashmir issue should have been properly handled rather than going again and again on the negotiating table when things get hot on the roads of Kashmir and betraying the hopes of the people by slowly stepping back from the initial claims. As far as the UN resolutions are concerned, which is the prime route Pakistan intends to take to resolve the conflict, it seems that since the UN has failed miserably for the last 68 years, expecting it to intervene and resolve the issue ahead is nothing but self-deception. It can be safely stated without any exaggeration that UN has been an absolutely useless platform when it comes to issues related to the Muslim world which include nations like Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq, chachnya, Syria, Libya etc.

Similarly, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has always discussed this issue but never taken any practical steps for its resolution. It could have become a strong force in dealing with resolving conflicts of the Muslim world by using its massive influence. But it chose to remain an incapable platform. Now then, with negotiations, we are losing Kashmir, the UN and OIC are not doing anything about it. We have also tried small military operations like Gibraltor and Kargil and have failed in them miserably because of lack of political will.

Having said that, it seems that in order to seriously liberate Indian occupied Kashmir, a sound political and military strategy is required with a sincere and determined will. Secondly, any demotivating claims like “India and Pakistan are both nuclear states and therefore we cannot do much about military solution with India” are outcomes of a politically weak mindset. Have we not seen two nuclear superpowers in cold war where America came out triumphed? Secondly, have we not seen how India took out Bangladesh from Pakistan? Why is it not possible then with a serious visionary leadership to turn the tide of history?

The question would still remain, What if we do get the Indian occupied Kashmir, can the current Pakistani regime yield to the demands of the Kashmiri people? The Pakistani regime is already responsible for massive atrocities on its own people in places like Balochistan, Fata region, Karachi etc. Will the people of Kashmir really accept such an attitude from Pakistan? Or would they then demand independence and would be dealt with the same fate as that of the people of Bangladesh?

And finally, let us assume, we give up the “sha rag” and India gives up the “Atoot Ang” and both nations decide to let Kashmir become an independent state. Would that be really good for the Kashmiris or would they become colony of either India or Pakistan or china because of inability to take a firm stance in front of these giant neighbours? Consequently, it means that an independent Kashmir would also not prosper much, would remain in turmoil and therefore will not be in a position to make its own destiny.

The writer is pursuing a PhD in Computer Vision from NUST and is an assistant professor at Bahria University. He tweets @1Umair7
 
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This guy shredded Pakistani position on Kashmir to pieces. A must read for all Pakistanis.
 
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Really? Bcz I read the article and nowhere did he "shred our position".

Let's break it down then.

Just after Partition, the Pakistani state claimed the complete Kashmir as its legitimate territory
which should be certified by a plebiscite by the Kashmiri people based on the fact that majority
of its inhabitants are Muslims. “Kashmir humari sha ragh hay” is the major slogan sung by
Pakistanis and the claim that the letter “K” in Pakistan is for Kashmir.

OK. Yep that's how it is. Its claimed to be our shah rag and their atoot ang.

On the contrary, in 1963, the Pakistani side under Field Marshal General Ayub Khan announced giving Kashmir’s 13,000 square miles land to China on Kashmir’s border with the Chinese region of Xinjiang

It means we were ready to give some part of our vital land as gift to China

And this is a hitting article. Either journalistic standards are low beyond the border or the op didn't read what we pasted.

Any how. First of all the writer has no idea about the sino pakistan frontier agreement bcz it was not a gift but an exchange for border demarcation. On the 60s we had a hostile India, a China showing our land in their maps and had just annexed land from our neighbour India and an Afghanistan that claimed half of our land as theirs and had invaded bajuar. Perhaps I expect too much from C grade writers to have inkling in politics. We needed to demarcate our border with China and we did that.

13000 square miles is 20921 km square of land.

Yet the shaksgam allotted to China was 2050 square miles. About 5180 square kilometers and pakistan received 750 square miles which is about 1922 km square. The 750 was grazing land.

Bcz of that agreement to this day we have no issue with China and have not been helped economically politically but also militarily but let's put that aside.

I mean who cares about facts and political aspects when its far more snazzier to write big numbers.

Yep we should have issues with all our neighbors. Kashmir belongs to us, the pashtun belt in Afghanistan belongs to us, the Xinjiang in China belongs to us and sistan in Iran belongs to us. Heck let's have it with the Arabian sea as well. The entire sea is ours and then we will see MR.NUST here writing an article about pakistan and its foreign policy on neighbors.

Then in 1972, PM Zulfikar Ali Bhutto accepted the Line of Control (LOC) as an almost official border

Yeah bhutto should have said screw you and 90000 prisoners amongst which 40000+ were civilians. We are not going to give you even this.

Yeah very hard hitting.

As for musharraf. The only realistic and plausible solution short of war and a very fine one. It seems realism has no place in his fairy tale world.



I give up. This is too senseless writing.

I will say this
. Secondly, any demotivating claims like “India and Pakistan are both nuclear states and therefore we cannot do much about military solution with India” are outcomes of a politically weak mindset. Have we not seen two nuclear superpowers in cold war where America came out triumphed? Secondly, have we not seen how India took out Bangladesh from Pakistan? Why is it not possible then with a serious visionary leadership to turn the tide of history?


Apparently those with senses who don't want a cold war situation are signature of weak political will. This is hard hitting. This is shredding. He is advocating escalation and cold war situation with extreme arms race. Is this what we seek for the region? For it to be under the stress of a cold war and just one fire cracker releasing fires from the heaven. Apparently telling to macho powers to not fight bcz nuclear power, is a sign of weak political and this is a must read for all Pakistanis. Not peace. Not talks but war is the solution. . According to op.

In fact all he is saying that our soft stance is wrong and it should be harsher.

The writer is a PHD in computer visions so he should stick to his specialty which is certainly not political affairs.

I have met many PhD jackasses just as @Joe Shearer has met high ranking officers who were jackasses.

One should not take position and high degree as a benchmark. They can vomit rubbish.

Let us both not be embroiled in such point scoring and hatred that we start giving two bit blogs and articles importance they most do not deserve.

People want to discuss this thread be my guest but I am not going discuss an article that is politically and factually incorrect and advocates cold war relations.
 
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In fact all he is saying that our soft stance is wrong and it should be harsher.

That is not what he is saying. He is saying that Pakistan never had consistent policy on Kashmir since 1947. First Ayub Khan, then Bhutto and then Musharraf have considerable weakened Pakistan's position on Kashmir. I suggest you read it again.
 
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This guy shredded Pakistani position on Kashmir to pieces. A must read for all Pakistanis.

What is shredded is your claim on Kashmir. Kashmiris hate india plain and simple. Watch the news?
 
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http://tribune.com.pk/story/1246318/sad-state-kashmir/

Just after Partition, the Pakistani state claimed the complete Kashmir as its legitimate territory
which should be certified by a plebiscite by the Kashmiri people based on the fact that majority
of its inhabitants are Muslims. “Kashmir humari sha ragh hay” is the major slogan sung by
Pakistanis and the claim that the letter “K” in Pakistan is for Kashmir.

On the contrary, in 1963, the Pakistani side under Field Marshal General Ayub Khan announced giving Kashmir’s 13,000 square miles land to China on Kashmir’s border with the Chinese region of Xinjiang. It means we were ready to give some part of our vital land as gift to China. Then in 1972, PM Zulfikar Ali Bhutto accepted the Line of Control (LOC) as an almost official border and in 2006, president General (retd) Pervez Musharraf gave a proposal which included two major points. Firstly, borders between Pakistan and India remain the same and secondly, Kashmir be given autonomy but not independence. These chronological events clearly show that Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir has been going back slowly and steadily. This means that the “sha rag” is no longer considered as such
practically but only remains so in speeches and slogans. The people of Kashmir on the Indian side have not accepted Indian domination even after more than 68 years. Interestingly, India has millions of Muslims living peacefully in other parts of India but continuous wave of revolts and protests against the Indian regime can be seen in Kashmir. Either it is because of the continuous and deliberate interference of Pakistan in Kashmir or the brutal and inhumane behaviour of the Indian regime which includes pallet guns, disappearances, extra judicial murders etc., or maybe it is because of the nature of the people of Kashmir to not bow down against injustice and stand for their freedom.

Whatever may be the case, the Kashmir issue should have been properly handled rather than going again and again on the negotiating table when things get hot on the roads of Kashmir and betraying the hopes of the people by slowly stepping back from the initial claims. As far as the UN resolutions are concerned, which is the prime route Pakistan intends to take to resolve the conflict, it seems that since the UN has failed miserably for the last 68 years, expecting it to intervene and resolve the issue ahead is nothing but self-deception. It can be safely stated without any exaggeration that UN has been an absolutely useless platform when it comes to issues related to the Muslim world which include nations like Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq, chachnya, Syria, Libya etc.

Similarly, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has always discussed this issue but never taken any practical steps for its resolution. It could have become a strong force in dealing with resolving conflicts of the Muslim world by using its massive influence. But it chose to remain an incapable platform. Now then, with negotiations, we are losing Kashmir, the UN and OIC are not doing anything about it. We have also tried small military operations like Gibraltor and Kargil and have failed in them miserably because of lack of political will.

Having said that, it seems that in order to seriously liberate Indian occupied Kashmir, a sound political and military strategy is required with a sincere and determined will. Secondly, any demotivating claims like “India and Pakistan are both nuclear states and therefore we cannot do much about military solution with India” are outcomes of a politically weak mindset. Have we not seen two nuclear superpowers in cold war where America came out triumphed? Secondly, have we not seen how India took out Bangladesh from Pakistan? Why is it not possible then with a serious visionary leadership to turn the tide of history?

The question would still remain, What if we do get the Indian occupied Kashmir, can the current Pakistani regime yield to the demands of the Kashmiri people? The Pakistani regime is already responsible for massive atrocities on its own people in places like Balochistan, Fata region, Karachi etc. Will the people of Kashmir really accept such an attitude from Pakistan? Or would they then demand independence and would be dealt with the same fate as that of the people of Bangladesh?

And finally, let us assume, we give up the “sha rag” and India gives up the “Atoot Ang” and both nations decide to let Kashmir become an independent state. Would that be really good for the Kashmiris or would they become colony of either India or Pakistan or china because of inability to take a firm stance in front of these giant neighbours? Consequently, it means that an independent Kashmir would also not prosper much, would remain in turmoil and therefore will not be in a position to make its own destiny.

The writer is pursuing a PhD in Computer Vision from NUST and is an assistant professor at Bahria University. He tweets @1Umair7

indian shows their true color when ever post somthing its just a cry. when indians are killing and torchring innocent Kashmiries.
People of Kashmir are not going to let india sit in peace day by day its gonna be pain and we see how india have to lie about surgical drama hahaha.
Indian occupied army will pay the price of every death in Kashmir.
 
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.....The people of Kashmir on the Indian side have not accepted Indian domination even after more than 68 years......
When you say 'people', you do a gross generalization, there are Kashmiri non-Muslims who demand to stay with India but they have fled due to violence and now Muslims are in absolute majority. Why their opinion doesn't matter, they are sons and daughters of the soil too....?
IMHO, until all non-Muslim Kashmiris return to Kashmir and are able to stay there without fear, holding a plebiscite would be a gross injustice.......
 
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What is shredded is your claim on Kashmir. Kashmiris hate india plain and simple. Watch the news?

..seem the OP touched your nerve. And if you feel that a couple of negative rating would stop me from posting on Kashmir, I say you are innocent.

No...you don't have any idea on Kashmir when you say Kashmiris hate India. The situation is quite complex with plethora of various sentiments that exist in Kashmir. Come Lok Shaba or state elections, you will see serpentine ques in Kashmir to vote.

By the way, OP is from a Pakistani newspaper and the writer is a Pakistani. Shouting Kashmir, Kashmir on PDF will not yield you Kashmir. You people never had a consistent and coherent Kashmir policy, and - sorry to say that and I know that it would hurt you immensely - the possibility of India agreeing for Kashmir to cede to Pakistani is null.
 
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By the way, OP is from a Pakistani newspaper and the writer is a Pakistani. Shouting Kashmir, Kashmir on PDF will not yield you Kashmir. You people never had a consistent and coherent Kashmir policy, and - sorry to say that and I know that it would hurt you immensely - the possibility of India agreeing for Kashmir to cede to Pakistani is null.

Actually apart from a hiccup from ZAB our Kashmi policy is sound and that's why Kashmiris are much warmer to Pakistan than they are to endia....I always reiterated in this forum (in the interests of integrity) that not all Kashmiris are pro-Pakistan or necessarily want to join Pakistan. But the general consensus is - they never were and never will consider themself "indian"

Like I said - follow the ground realities there. I know it's hard b/c of your boisterous media which shoves lies and false narratives down your throat.

If you have to kill scores of Kashmiris and maim them with pellet guns (including pre teenage year kids) then you have a very serious problem on your hands. It was international embarrassment that forced you to release Khurram Pervez. So much for "56 inch chest" mantra....sounds more like 56 centimeter height :laugh:
 
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