The mutual unintelligibility of Sinitic lect

[user1]

David Crystal writes in his book 'How language works':

An interesting problem arises in cases where there is a geographical dialect continuum. There is often a chain of dialects spoken throughout an area. At any point in a chain, speakers of a dialect can understand the speakers of other dialects who live in adjacent area to them; but they find it difficult to understand people who live further along the chain; and they may find the people who live furthest away completely unintelligible. The speakers of the dialects at the two ends of the chain will not understand each other; but they are nonetheless linked by a chain of mutual intelligibility.

This kind of situation is very common. An extensive continuum links all the dialects of the languages known as German, Dutch and Flemish. Speakers in Eastern Switzerland can not understand speakers in Eastern Belgium; but they are linked by a chain of mutually intelligible dialects throughout the Netherlands, Germany and Austria. . There is West Romance continuum which links rural dialects of Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, French and Italian. We are used to think of these languages as quite different from each other; but his is only because we are usually exposed to their standard varieties, which are not mutually intelligible.

I find a similar language continuum from North to South of Pakistan, especially on the Eastern side of river Indus. Kashmiri Dogri, Hindko, Potohari, Punjabi, Saraiki and Sindhi - all of these languages are connected by a chain of mutual intelligibility.

I think it is probably same with the Chinese dialects.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

The above is Chen Shuibian's son, Chen Zhizhong of DPP and Qiu Yi of KMT, debating in Min Nan/Taiwanese. I can almost understand 100%.

The younger Singaporeans cannot understand because of cultural genocide by PAP government. The older Singaporeans would be able to.

Min Nan is one of the most difficult Sinitic lect. The reason of complexity is due to an incredible amount of different pronunciation of the same Chinese character. Reason being, the language is not really codified.

The codification will purge Min Nan of many irregularities but and this work is still on-going at the beginning stage. On the whole, Min Nan is still endangered because of the prestige of Mandarin in Taiwan. Mandarin being used extensively in all scientific, social, economical and political field has become such an expressive language that Min Nan would not expect to challenge it for a long time.

Feel free to comment about Min Nan after hearing the video.

 

[Okemos]

The above is Chen Shuibian's son, Chen Zhizhong of DPP and Qiu Yi of KMT, debating in Min Nan/Taiwanese. I can almost understand 100%.

The younger Singaporeans cannot understand because of cultural genocide by PAP government. The older Singaporeans would be able to.

Min Nan is one of the most difficult Sinitic lect. The reason of complexity is due to an incredible amount of different pronunciation of the same Chinese character. Reason being, the language is not really codified.

The codification will purge Min Nan of many irregularities but and this work is still on-going at the beginning stage. On the whole, Min Nan is still endangered because of the prestige of Mandarin in Taiwan. Mandarin being used extensively in all scientific, social, economical and political field has become such an expressive language that Min Nan would not expect to challenge it for a long time.

Feel free to comment about Min Nan after hearing the video.

I can actually understand much better than Wenzhou dialect, but to me, Min Nan is too choppy! lol sorry if that's offensive to you.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I can actually understand much better than Wenzhou dialect, but to me, Min Nan is too choppy! lol sorry if that's offensive to you.

Min Nan and Cantonese have the most promising hope of surviving the Mandarin onslaught. Even then I am not too optimistic given the amount of usage by Chinese has allowed Mandarin to become extremely expressive.

Min Nan take time to catch up. Meanwhile the problem of cantonese is that they are losing some prestige due to the demise of HK.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Min Nan and Cantonese have the most promising hope of surviving the Mandarin onslaught. Even then I am not too optimistic given the amount of usage by Chinese has allowed Mandarin to become extremely expressive.

Min Nan take time to catch up. Meanwhile the problem of cantonese is that they are losing some prestige due to the demise of HK.

There are around 60 million Cantonese speakers in Guangdong province, I don't see any risk of losing a dialect that has so many speakers.

Plus, as a Chinese person I don't see any problem with Standard Chinese increasing in usage, it's not a foreign language its a Chinese language. And I think it has a really nice sound, especially the standard version.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

There are around 60 million Cantonese speakers in Guangdong province, I don't see any risk of losing a dialect that has so many speakers.

Plus, as a Chinese person I don't see any problem with Standard Chinese increasing in usage, it's not a foreign language its a Chinese language. And I think it has a really nice sound.

在深圳，要听到粤语都难。即使是广州，街上人们都讲普通话。

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

在深圳，要听到粤语都难。即使是广州，街上人们都讲普通话。

Well obviously, since it is Shenzhen? Which mostly has immigrants from other parts of China.

Still, the majority of Guangdong province (the natives) speak Cantonese. The immigrants from other parts of China will speak to each other in their home dialect, or Mandarin. And they will tend to come to the cities.

 

[Aepsilons]

There are around 60 million Cantonese speakers in Guangdong province, I don't see any risk of losing a dialect that has so many speakers.

Plus, as a Chinese person I don't see any problem with Standard Chinese increasing in usage, it's not a foreign language its a Chinese language. And I think it has a really nice sound, especially the standard version.

If i may add, Cantonese people are very kind , so kind. My uncle (father's younger brother) married a woman from Guangzhou. They live in Guangzhou and their children are so adorable. The last time I was in Guangzhou, my auntie always tries to persuade me to find and buy property in Guangzho area. But to be honest, of all the places in China ive been to, I love Guangdong the best. I think that people in Guangdong are generally nicer, friendlier and inviting that those in Beijing or Shanghai. Just my personal observation.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

If i may add, Cantonese people are very kind , so kind. My uncle (father's younger brother) married a woman from Guangzhou. They live in Guangzhou and their children are so adorable. The last time I was in Guangzhou, my auntie always tries to persuade me to find and buy property in Guangzho area. But to be honest, of all the places in China ive been to, I love Guangdong the best. I think that people in Guangdong are generally nicer, friendlier and inviting that those in Beijing or Shanghai. Just my personal observation.

You got to know them longer. Their women have acrimonious tongue and talk a lot.

Taiwanese are the real warm people.

 

[Aepsilons]

You got to know them longer. Their women have acrimonious tongue and talk a lot.

Taiwanese are the real warm people.

Please don't try to generalize, dude. My auntie is the nicest person ever, aside from the fact that she tries to play match maker. I think that's a Chinese trait eh?

But ya..no talking about Cantonese folk...!

 

[Armstrong]

Well, Wenzhou dialect is probably the most difficult dialect for other Chinese people to understand, as we were talking about on the other thread.

I'm a Hong Konger so my native dialect is Cantonese. I had to learn Mandarin separately, and I use it very often (many of my closest friends are Mainlanders). My ancestry is Hakka, but my spoken Hakka is not very good.

With other dialects it is mostly just guesswork for me, sometimes it is easier to guess depending on the context, sometimes it is nearly impossible, like with Wenzhou dialect.

Can't understand much Teochew for example, despite it being close to Hakka and Hokkien. But luckily they can usually speak either Mandarin or Cantonese when talking to me, so it's rarely ever a problem. Can't understand much Hokkien either, but those guys can usually speak Mandarin too.

I'm confused !

What dialect do they use in Chinese films like some old Bruce Lee movies or eveb some of the newer ones like Mulan with my Vicky Zhao !

 

[Aepsilons]

Taiwanese are the real warm people.

Its a known fact how obsessed Taiwanese are of Japanese culture, too. And i'm not even joking around...

I'm confused !

What dialect do they use in Chinese films like some old Bruce Lee movies or eveb some of the newer ones like Mulan with my Vicky Zhao !

Bruce Lee was a Cantonese speaker. Am i right, @Chinese-Dragon ?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Please don't try to generalize, dude. My auntie is the nicest person ever, aside from the fact that she tries to play match maker. I think that's a Chinese trait eh?

But ya..no talking about Cantonese folk...!

Regionalism doesn't bother me. I'm a Chinese nationalist, doesn't matter what region anyone comes from.

Its a known fact how obsessed Taiwanese are of Japanese culture, too. And i'm not even joking around...



Bruce Lee was a Cantonese speaker. Am i right, @Chinese-Dragon ?

That's right. Both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan are Cantonese speakers.

That doesn't necessarily mean Cantonese are better at martial arts, just that Cantonese are more likely to be known overseas due to Guangdong being the largest source of immigrants overseas.

I'm confused !

What dialect do they use in Chinese films like some old Bruce Lee movies or eveb some of the newer ones like Mulan with my Vicky Zhao !

Old Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan films will certainly be in Cantonese (unless it is dubbed). Newer movies like the Mulan you mentioned will be in Mandarin.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Its a known fact how obsessed Taiwanese are of Japanese culture, too. And i'm not even joking around...



Bruce Lee was a Cantonese speaker. Am i right, @Chinese-Dragon ?

Please do not generalize. You are not having a balance view..haha

 

[Aepsilons]

Please do not generalize. You are not having a balance view..haha

LOL!

You got me !