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The History of Downgraded Vera-E Radar Purchase by PAF

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Sir, my understanding is both AESA and PESA have their roles to play. If enemy EW/ELINT is advanced and we are striking deep, pilots would switch to PESA regardless.

Both AESA and PESA are active systems, both ESCAN. Its how the TX and RX works defines AESA or PESA, transmitter on antenna or transmitter in rack. ELINT is passive. PESA does not mean passive.
 
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Both AESA and PESA are active systems, both ESCAN. Its how the TX and RX works defines AESA or PESA, transmitter on antenna or transmitter in rack. ELINT is passive. PESA does not mean passive.
Sir how would you describe the difference between AESA and "Active Phased Array Radar" (APAR)?
 
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Sir how would you describe the difference between AESA and "Active Phased Array Radar" (APAR)?

AESA is APAR. First you need to understand what is a radar. Transmit, and receive, and calculate time between. That is radar. There are two types. Active, when you have TR unit as the antenna, actually a lot of them adding the power and making the array. Passive when you have a transmitter (and likely a TWT) providing complete power. Within Active Phased Array, there are many types and many frequencies, and many techniques, such as Pin Diode, or phase shifters, etc. Very complicated subject.

Sir, my understanding is both AESA and PESA have their roles to play. If enemy EW/ELINT is advanced and we are striking deep, pilots would switch to PESA regardless.

ELINT is not a wartime tool. its a peacetime tool to collect signatures, and use those signatures to populate ESM and RWRs of your platforms. In war, ESMs and RWRs are used based on the ELINT activities of peacetime.

And a word on the title of this thread. Every foreign system that we buy is downgraded. This is standard across teh industry. You guys found out just because of WikiLeaks, but its not a big deal.
 
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And a word on the title of this thread. Every foreign system that we buy is downgraded. This is standard across teh industry. You guys found out just because of WikiLeaks, but its not a big deal.
Would you say the same about potential Chinese radars as well, that come with the so called ‘TOT’? Is there a way we can ever get access to complete capabilities of a platform? Or investing in our science and education sector, and indegenous R&D is the only way forward?
 
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Would you say the same about potential Chinese radars as well, that come with the so called ‘TOT’? Is there a way we can ever get access to complete capabilities of a platform? Or investing in our science and education sector, and indegenous R&D is the only way forward?

Chinese is also foreign, and they give us their downgraded systems as well.
 
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Knew of it being sent to Pakistan for testing but there was no news afterwards. Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source but a citation here plus knowledge of Pakistan testing this system gives some plausibility. Knowing the need for secrecy it may be operational but not announced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VERA_passive_sensor#Exports

VERA passive sensor
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VERA

VERA next generation receiver unit
Country of origin
23px-Flag_of_the_Czech_Republic.svg.png
Czech Republic
Type Ground-based emitter tracking system
Frequency 1-18 GHz
Range ~450 km nominal
Azimuth 120-360° depending on mode

VERA-NG

VERA-NG
VERA -VERA passive radar (in Czech known as Věra) is an electronic support measures (ESM) system that uses measurements of time difference of arrival (TDOA) of pulses at three or four sites to accurately detect and track airborne emitters. It is reportedly able to detect military "invisible aircraft".[1][2]

Contents
Mode of operation[edit]
The deployed system typically comprises a central site (containing the signal processing equipment and an ESM receiver) and two or three side sites containing only an ESM receiver. The side sites relay the signals received to the central site over a point-to-point microwave link. The central site uses the known propagation delay from the side sites to estimate the TDOA of the pulses at each site.

The TDOA of a pulse between one side site and the central site locates the target on a hyperboloid. A second side site provides a second TDOA and hence a second hyperboloid. The intersection of these two hyperboloids places the target on a line, providing a 2D measurement of the target's location (no height).

A third side-site provides a third hyperboloid, which, when intersected with the line provided by the other two side sites, provides a full 3D location of the target. This process is known as multilateration.

The height of a target with an SSR Mode C or Mode S transponder can also be provided by decoding the Mode C or Mode S response directly, which is the normal mode of operation for the civilian VERA-AP system.

System accuracy[edit]
System accuracy is typically better than a microwave surveillance radar, and is a function of the deployment geometry, the inherent timing accuracy of the central site, the bandwidth of the pulse being detected and the signal-to-noise ratio. Wider separations of the side sites from the central site provide better accuracies – but at the expense of a reduced area of common coverage. Typically side sites are deployed 15-40 km from the central site, providing a reasonable compromise of coverage and accuracy.

The system is generally line-of-sight limited, with a nominal range of 450 km, the normal radio horizon. Detection of targets is within a sector of approximately 120 degrees, although IFF and SSR targets are detected using a dedicated omnidirectional antenna, and hence may be seen over 360 degrees. Up to 200 targets can be automatically tracked simultaneously, with an output rate adjustable from 1 to 5 seconds.

Exploited emitters[edit]
The current generation sensor can only detect and track pulsed emissions, due to the requirement to measure the time of arrival of pulses. The receivers operate in the frequency range of 1-18 GHz and typically exploit secondary surveillance radar (SSR) transponders, identify friend or foe (IFF) transponders, airborne radars, weather radars, tactical air navigation (TACAN) transponders, distance measurement equipment (DME) beacons, digital communications signals and pulsed jamming signals.

Versions[edit]
VERA is supplied in a number of versions. VERA-AP is the civilian long-range air traffic control (ATC) version, which only exploits civilian SSR transponders at 1030 and 1090 MHz.

VERA-E is the export version of the military ESM version of the system, also referred to as the VERA-S/M in its national mobile version. In addition, the shorter range VERA-P3D system is marketed for highly accurate monitoring of transponder-equipped ground vehicle movement at airports. The manufacturers also market an ESM triangulation system known as BORAP.

Data Patterns Pvt Ltd, India has also established a comfortable lead with its counterpart internationally.

Czech company ERA in cooperation with the German SMAG introduced a brand new mobile antenna mast for its system VERA-NG. The prototype is due to be finished in Q1/2017 and be ready for first deliveries at the end of this year.

Exports[edit]
Open literature sources claim VERA-E systems have been exported to Malaysia, Estonia, Pakistan and the United States. Newspaper reports also claimed that in January 2004 the Czech defence sales company, Omnipol, received licence to sell six systems to China. However, US government pressure on the Czech government resulted in the cancellation of this contract. Civil systems have been widely exported throughout Europe.

Within the Czech Republic, a mobile VERA-E unit is operated by the 53rd Passive Radiotechnical Reconnaissance System and Electronic Warfare Centre at Planá near České Budějovice.

History[edit]
VERA is the latest in a long history of Czech ESM TDOA systems. The first system developed by the Czech army in 1963 was known as PRP-1 Kopáč which could track 6 targets.

This was followed by KRTP-81 Ramona (NATO reporting name Soft Ball) in 1979, which could track 20 targets, and KRTP-86 Tamara (NATO reporting name Trash Can) in 1987, which could simultaneously track 23 radar targets and 48 IFF targets.

These were widely exported to the former Soviet Union and beyond. These predecessors were manufactured by the state company Tesla, which collapsed after the Velvet Revolution (1989). Lead engineers from the former Tesla company formed the ERA Company in Pardubicewhich produces the current generation VERA family of sensors.

Timeline
Users[edit]
See also[edit]
General topic

Similar systems

  • Kolchuga – a similar system developed in Ukraine
  • Kopáč – the first generation Czech ESM TDOA system
  • Ramona – the second generation Czech ESM TDOA system
  • Tamara – the third generation Czech ESM TDOA system
  • BORAP – a contemporary Czech ESM triangulation system
  • YLC-20 - a Chinese development of Czech Tamara first revealed in 2006
Similarly abbreviated electronics

 
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if the enemy aircraft doesnt emit signal, would this device detect it or not? thanks.
 
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if it's passive sensor, then ofcourse won't detect in absence of emissions.
 
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thanks for answers but i am really confused.
 
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This is a passive radar not active one .
Both AESA and PESA are active systems, both ESCAN. Its how the TX and RX works defines AESA or PESA, transmitter on antenna or transmitter in rack. ELINT is passive. PESA does not mean passive.
u may know they work in 3 with Gmcc’s getting all data and they can detect type of bogie with name :D
we have full version of vera I don’t know why people call it downgraded btw I have a recent pic of them in my drive lol
 
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if the enemy aircraft doesnt emit signal, would this device detect it or not? thanks.
Yes, im assuming you are asking when enemy aircraft Radar is switched off.

1. Radar Cross section detection through a Surveillance Radar using low frequencies or Track while Scan mode.

2. Intercepting/tracking VHF/UHF comm links and other data links. Voice communication is mostly through VHF or UHF in RF spectrum between pilot and ATC/Command. The monitoring system has to be robust in tracking even short comm/data message bursts.

3. Detecting IR signature of the aircraft using IRST/FLIR.

IR scan.jpg




Chinese is also foreign, and they give us their downgraded systems as well.
True, seen that in SCO Chinese comm systems deployed in north of Pakistan. Another reason why USA tactical radios were preferred before 786 series of PA radios were provided by NRTC.

we have full version of vera I don’t know why people call it downgraded btw I have a recent pic of them in my drive lol
Haan emotional ho k share kar dena. nokri se tu bari jaldi farigh honay wala hay in harkaat ki waja se. chup nai reh sakta tu.

AESA is APAR. First you need to understand what is a radar. Transmit, and receive, and calculate time between. That is radar. There are two types. Active, when you have TR unit as the antenna, actually a lot of them adding the power and making the array. Passive when you have a transmitter (and likely a TWT) providing complete power. Within Active Phased Array, there are many types and many frequencies, and many techniques, such as Pin Diode, or phase shifters, etc. Very complicated subject.



ELINT is not a wartime tool. its a peacetime tool to collect signatures, and use those signatures to populate ESM and RWRs of your platforms. In war, ESMs and RWRs are used based on the ELINT activities of peacetime.

And a word on the title of this thread. Every foreign system that we buy is downgraded. This is standard across teh industry. You guys found out just because of WikiLeaks, but its not a big deal.
You are always spot on:tup:
 
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